From Egypt to Israel in symbols

originally posted by: undo
a reply to: Utnapisjtim

interesting. not sure ham was black, btw.

Agreed. It's just normally people consider him the father of the Africans, but as I've come to a conclusion that the Flood was a local ME event I see no reason why he would be black, guess I didn't really think about that before, I've just gone with the flow, thinking he was black, since people say that. Skin colour is as far as I can see not mentioned directly in the text, besides it is arbitrary and irrelevant. One of Ham's sons, מצרים or "Mitsrayim", is sometimes translated into Egypt. As far as I believe this is based on the LXX translating מצרים or "Mitsrayim" into Αἴγυπτος or "Aiguptos", but I am not sure.

i think he was semitic

Well, Noah had three sons, Sem, Kam and Jafet. Sem is the father of the Semites (Jews, Arabs etc.), while Ham is the father of the Hamites (Egyptians, Palestinians etc.).

neph-IL-im seem to be enlil's creations, not enki's, however,

The Sumerian text Atrahasis, which includes the Flood story, Atrahasis being the Biblical Noah or Utnapishtim of the Epic of Gilgamesh-- says Enki was the god of the oceans while Ellil/Enlil was the god of the dry land. Anu was god of the sky. Anu fathered the Anunnaki and the Anunnaki fathered the Igigi who were in slavery to dig canals and rivers. They refuse to work at some point, and that's when Man is made, to take on the work of the Igigi.

Anu made seven Ashakku (Sum. Asag, demons) that were defeated by Ninurta (Nimrod, son of Ellil). Ashakku "let the woumb be too tight to let a baby out" (giants?) according to the text about midways on tablet II.

Source: The version of Atrahasis I have is from 'Myths from Mesopotamia', Oxford World's Classics, ISBN 978-0-19-953836-2

some of the nephilim were not bad, and thus, assumes that the title came to apply to any hybrids.

In the books of Enoch, Enoch intercedes for them, acting like their defence lawyer. Being big doesn't necessarily equate to being bad. Met a lit. giant at the store a few months back, he must have been eight feet. Or more....

in addition, it's currently imposssible to tell how much black dna was in nimrod, even though he'd been modified by inana and enlil, to be a nephil (plural nephilim)

Curious to which texts do you found the Inana/Enlil modifying Nimrod part. According to Atrahasis Nimrod was Ellil's (same as Enlil) son.

According to Atrahasis Nimrod was Ellil's (same as Enlil) son.

oh isn't that interesting. proves my theory, it does.

Curious to which texts do you found the Inana/Enlil modifying Nimrod

well i put it together by joining "Enmerkar and the Lord of Arrata" tale, with the biblical account that says Nimrod became a Mighty one (biblical parlance for a nephil in that timeframe). In the Enmerkar tale, Inana basically makes him a mighty one in exchange for his pledge to rebuild the temples and reinstitute Inana worship. Since I think she was also Isis (or an Isis) and since I think Nimrod/Narmer/Enmerkar was Osiris (or an Osiris)

He also reinstituted worship of Enlil and rebuilt his temple, as well, with the help of all the slaves Inana put at his disposal. As a result, it sounds like Enlil and Inana made him a nephil and he assists with building an one world order under the auspices of Enlil. This is where Enki calls a council meeting to discuss what to do about the situation, as it appears the preflood problems are arising again. Nimrod has dug up the Babel gate and rebuilt the ziggurat (tower of babel), which the text suggests is a very bad thing, presumably because it's a heavenly gate and some not so nice entities may come thru it.....again. (long story)

The council of 70 decides to deprive Nimrod, Enlil and Inana of their world order and Enki enlists Inana to aid him in Nimrod's downfall at Abydos (see the shabaka stone). The council of 70 then divides the nations of the planet up, between them, each acting as an overseer/guardian of the people, thus stopping the world from plummeting into the one world order system of slavery and tyranny. There's still slavery and still tyranny, from time to time, but it's never been global since then.

a reply to: undo

Now look what you've done! Thanks to you I just used half my paycheck on books again! I hope you're happy now!

Nah, no problem, love. Except I can't stand the waiting involved with the damn shipping. Good thing there's no tax on books

Anyway, Inanna, Ishtar, Aphrodite, Astarte, Frøya, Venus -- they are all Venusians, planet wise -- The archtype of the powerful woman, but oy so decadent! Love knows she is loved, and love understands it, it's pure reason to her. And we all love it that way! Love. Such a terrible thing to miss and how dreadful, wearing it out. To the lovers!

a reply to: Utnapisjtim

whee. glad to be of help. keep an eye-peeled for the section that is otherwise known as the namshub of enki. the text explains that the whole "universe" is living peacefully under the rule of enlil. and it is enki who busts it all up by putting confusion in the speech of the people. that is the tower of babel story, straight up. took me awhile to put all the pieces together after that.

consider, before sumer was buried under 8 ft of flood silt, abzu was not a god who mated with tiamat but some kind of underground watery gate. but in enuma elish, which is written later, in the time of marduk, abzu becomes a god who mates with tiamat. the relevant enuma elish passages are describing what happened at the end of the flood event, but you have to know the earlier texts to figure that out. it appears that enki stopped an invasion of some kind from continuing, by "killing" abzu. this killing of abzu, has a norse equivalent in the chaining up of the wolf fenrir.

at that point, tiamat joins with kingu instead. for some reason, i got the impression that kingu was on the moon and now i dunno where i got that from. maybe a sitchin reading, i dunno, but i considered the possibility that when the babel event happened, it had something to do with the gates of the deep (abzu/abyss/bottomless pit). if abzu is a wormhole gate, which i think it is, then tiamat is the wormhole. and when she could no longer mate with abzu because enki had shut the abzu gate, she found another gate to join with.......on the moon. and the invasion troops continued arriving in our neck of the woods but on the moon instead of on the earth.

so there's more than one possible explanation for why enki closed down the tower of babel gate (abzu gate).

i said all that to say this--as soon as tiamat connected to the kingu gate, she started pumping out weird beings that sound like aliens or something. i don't think she is giving birth in the sense that humans do but rather the wormhole (tiamat) is delivering alien passengers. someone is taking advantage of the ability to create wormholes with gate technology. i'm thinking it was enlil, since he failed at completely destroying enki's pet humans with the flood.

a reply to: undo

Tiamat is the ten-horned, seven-headed beast emerging from the sea in Revelation. Ugaritic Yam is another name for it (compare to Heb. Yam, sea) and also it seems to be identical with Leviathan in Hebrew lore. It's all there. Mithra(s) and Osiris/Isis and solar deities being their royal arch types. These PTB tailored Jesus into becoming the Mithras of the next generation. It's makebelieve and nonsense really, but the oil-prices and the dollar depends on these myths, more so than actual politics and economics.

a reply to: undo

In Atrahasis, Enki as God of the Sea, was the God who warned Athrahasis (Noah or my "namesake") of the coming flood Enlil and Anu waged, and warned him. Throughout the book he is defending humankind and identify with us. In order to wage the Deluge, Enki was first releaved of his power with the "bolt that bars the sea" to Ea (the creator and master of Atrahasis according to the text), who would first bring about draught, then the Flood, by hands of Ea and his Lahmu creatures OR as the result of treason where the brotheres of Enki (Anu and Ellil) make him swear an oath. Parts of the text is missing so it's hard to say.

In the beginning of the story we learn that the main business of the gods was to dig canals and rivers. At one point the gods clog up the rivers and canals by use of "Dragonflies", which must be some kind of flying machine. They are divided in four, Sky, Earth, Middle Earth and the Underworld. The weird thing is that they all seem very occupied with these rivers and canals. Could it be that Sky, Middle Earth and so on, could be cataracts or parts of the river/land? And that the flood was a premeditated plot where first they would close off their gates, Anu above, Ea by the sea below, resulting in draught in all of Mesopotamia. And when Anu and Ellil has built up enough water they sound the command and the dams burst leaving a thick layer of silt that can be seen today. Who controls water, controls life. In Mesopotamia and in Egypt, in India and in China. Water makes for divine power in the ancient world it seems.

do you remember zorgon? he use to post on ats. well, when i told him some of this stuff, he came up with the idea that the abzu was used as "the flood weapon" spoken of in the epic of gilgamesh.

in the legend of the destruction of mankind (egyptian text), it says the Ra sent out his eye to wreak destruction on humankind. It was called the biggest "eye" on the planet. His eye was in the form of Hathor at first, and then in the form of Sekhmet. That was a real head scratcher till I realized the Eye of Ra is the gate system in Egypt, and that Hathor represented a gate on Mars. Was still a bit before I figured out what Sekhmet represented.

The way I arrived at this theory was that Hathor wore a bull's horn crown, surmounted by a red disk. Most egyptologists say that's the sun, but I think it's more precisely, Mars - in fact, the Sun in Taurus, whose planet is Mars. Then I found a reference to the Bull of Heaven (Mars) sucking up all the water and houses and spitting them out again, elsewhere. When I told this to zorgon, he made the comment that perhaps the Earth's flood was the water that is no longer on Mars, 2 civilizations destroyed at the same time, and this was made possible when the abzu/abyss gates on both planets, activated - one incoming (earth), the other outgoing (mars).

so the sekhmet gate was on earth.

these things are multilayered metaphors. for example, the 7 headed tiamat is 7 abzu/abyss gates on the earth that she connected to or rather, 7 abzu gates on earth that can create a wormhole (tiamat). this is the equivalent of the 7 sisters, otherwise known as the pleaides (in the head of taurus) -- the eye of ra gate system. oddly enough, nasa discovered 7 huge holes on mars - which i hypothesize were caused by the 7 sister gates on mars, which were, theoretically, under the oceans of mars before the flood event. if so, i wonder if the gates have fallen into those holes or if their owners removed them.

yeah i study too much.

a reply to: undo

I don't think you have to bring in Mars. The Nile has seven (or six) so called (natural?) cateracts dividing the river into seven canals. It's even written in the bible. The monster Yam also had seven heads (he/she is the same as Tiamat I believe) and he/she is often used interchangeably with the Nile like some kind of metaphor.

Loved your idea that the crown/head of Hathor is Sun in Taurus, never thought of that before. But like you say the disc is red, which makes me think of a lunar eclipse or a "blood Moon". Lunar eclipse with Moon in Taurus.

a reply to: Utnapisjtim

have you seen this? watch the camera zoom in to ezekiel's eye


have you seen this? watch the camera zoom into jack's eye


in the film, stargate, the eye of ra is associated with the being's the come out of the gate. ra is depicted wearing the red disk, surmounted by bull's horns.

in the legend of destruction of mankind, it describes hathor wading around in "blood" water from all her victims, which i theorize was the soil of mars mixed in with the water that had been siphoned from the planet thru the gates of the deep.

originally posted by: undo
a reply to: Utnapisjtim

whee. glad to be of help. keep an eye-peeled for the section that is otherwise known as the namshub of enki. the text explains that the whole "universe" is living peacefully under the rule of enlil. and it is enki who busts it all up by putting confusion in the speech of the people. that is the tower of babel story, straight up. took me awhile to put all the pieces together after that.

Yea its the Tower story told by the other side. Naturally they were going to sell "enki" as the bad guy. Just like "Set" is sold as the bad guy. You flip the coin over and "enlil" is the bad guy. That's one reason I regard these stories as having a basis in fact. You have two sides to the story and its "you are the bad guy", "no you are the bad guy". Anyway you put the two stories together and can conclude that something happened at the tower and both sides confirm that speech was confused.

Now go to the book of Acts. You have the wind again, a supernatural event were the confusion was reversed and everyone there heard the speaker in their own language and were amazed. Even though nothing is said of Babble here, its clear that the same force that confused the languages was at work here with reverse effect.

a reply to: Logarock

Edit: Made a seperate thread on this in order not to derail this thread here further.

The OP of www.abovetopsecret.com... is in a way in reply to the above post here.

Fools the mystery is Resurrection. Who would've known they were holding the looking glass backwards. Indeed it is backwards you see the scriptures had to be written for he who was already in Heaven to fulfill them. John the Baptist saw the vision on the island of Patmos 96 ad the opposite way Moses saw it at mt. Sinai. It's the reflexive property of everything it is the I Am.

a reply to: gorsestar

John the Baptist was dead and for all we know, he never wrote a single letter, and Revelation was published in the mid 60's. Revelation is written of a person refered to as John the Scribe or John the Revelatior. He is not the same as any of the other Johns in NT.

a reply to: Utnapisjtim

Yea, it was John the disciple.

originally posted by: Logarock
a reply to: Utnapisjtim

Yea, it was John the disciple.

Jochannan was a common name back then, but what we do know, is that whoever wrote Revelation didn't write anything else in the Bible. How do we know? Because of the way it is written. It presents a completely different writing style and grammar than any other text in the NT or the Bible or the entire extended corpus for that matter. So as far as we know, he may have been the disciple, but more likely, someone else than all the other Johns in the Bible. John the Scribe.

a reply to: Utnapisjtim

On the contrary, the writer of Johns letter and the Revelation have a good deal in common in a writing style. The primary reason that distractors attempt to separate John the disciple from Revelation is to remove apostolic authority from the book.

a reply to: Logarock

Fair enough, there is indeed evidence that the early Church fathers believed at least one of John's letters were written by the same man who wrote Revelation, and that this assumption was used to discredit the 3rd epistle of John together with Revelation in the canon-fights that raged up to the dawn of the fifth century. I don't believe believe the letters of John were written by the same person who wrote Revelation, infact I don't even believe all the letters of John were written by the same person. And I believe Revelation was written by someone else, this someone I call John the Scribe. Besides, I don't find authorship important at all. Credits and prophets don't mix anyway.

a reply to: Utnapisjtim

Well you are aware then of the flap over the authorship Revelation then. Apparently there was a good deal, enough anyway, of opposition to it being canonized. Apparently that hinged on apostolic authority. It ended up coming down to a comparison with Johns use of "lamb" the "word" ect, themes in both texts.

a reply to: Logarock

I agree, there are common themes and words that only appear in the John, John 1-3, and Revelation. The works of John very likely came from the Johanine community at Ephesus, where he lived out his life.

The book of Ephesians is also linked to this thread. Some are:

Gospel of John: The word became flesh and tabernacled among us
Revelation: The Unveiling of Jesus Christ
Ephesians: Christ in you is the hope of Glory
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The anti-christ in Johns epistles, and the beast in Revelation
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GosJohn: The light of the world
Epistles: God is light and in him there is no darkness
Ephesians: ch 5 you are light in the Lord, walk in the light, awake Christ shine on you
Revelation: in the center of the lamp stands, and the New Jerusalem Son/Father are the light of the world
--------------------------------------
GosJohn: Behold the lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world
Epistles: God sent his son to be the savior of the world
Revelation: Lamb, btw the word used for lamb in the Revelation 20+times is used only elsewhere in Gospel of John
-------------------------------------
Revelation 7:
They were shouting out in a loud voice,
“Salvation belongs to our God, 15
to the one seated on the throne, and to the Lamb!”

for the Lamb in the center of the throne will be their shepherd, and will guide them to springs of the water of life; and God will wipe every tear from their eyes."

Ephesians 2:6
and he raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus,