Do we have Free Will (my video)

guidetube
I just cant help thinking this is a ludicrous question. Also quite an amazing one as well. The even suggestion we dont decide for ourselves is messed up but considering it is basic.

Its messed up because who else do people think decides for us if not us? What would be the point if everything was pre-defined?
Amazing because of the possibility even after saying how ludicrous it is.

Of course God is the main suspect for preordaining everything but there are other suspects.

I think you have as much chance of proving a God as a preordained existence.

Its gets crazier because God is also supposedly the one who gave us choice.

Life has managed to use choice by considering the options. But what is the first option given or taking?

I agree that the question seems ludicrous at first glance. But the more and more science looks at "free will" the more ludicrous it seems that such a thing even exists.

More and more the little place inside our minds that we assume a magical little ghost pulls levers and makes choices, becomes smaller and smaller. It seems very impossible that physics allows free will.

Some say the idea is damnation and depressing. I personally find the lack of free will to be relaxing and liberating as a whole.

Either way, I must say, I 100% do not think free-will can exist within the laws of physics, and that assuming they do is just an intuitive mistake in the leagues of "feeling the world is flat" and "thinking matter is 100% solid".

Human sensory systems are flawed, and they exist to guide us to food and mates…not to dissect the working laws of the universe at first glance.

That is what makes science so amazing to me. It strives to cast out the false demons of intuitive thinking and replace them with the truth of math and factual information.

MM

Brotherman
reply to post by Mr Mask

 

I saw that vid a day or so ago, I will U2U with something pretty rad here in a bit with enough to read that should suffice the peer review. and keep it up bro you have a rad talent and are doing something with it.

Cool cool!!! I'm looking forward to the suggestions!

As for seeing that vid a day or two ago, you may be talking about the preview vid for my fallout videos. The one I linked here is a musical about VGJC and was uploaded less than 24 hours ago.

But ya, hit me with as many suggestions you like! I could always use some ammo to fire off into the youtube universe. Big hugs and all love homie.

MM

reply to post by Mr Mask


I'm sorry, but there's a fatal flaw to your logic here. If you say that free will is illusory, and that, as a result we shouldn't punish or judge others for committing crimes since they're beholden to a deterministic universe, aren't you implying that we have the free will to punish or not?

Didn't you write this post to change people's minds, meaning you do believe we have the power to choose? If i'm wrong, then I had no choice but to reply as I did.

GrassyTroll
reply to post by Mr Mask

 

I'm sorry, but there's a fatal flaw to your logic here. If you say that free will is illusory, and that, as a result we shouldn't punish or judge others for committing crimes since they're beholden to a deterministic universe, aren't you implying that we have the free will to punish or not?

Didn't you write this post to change people's minds, meaning you do believe we have the power to choose? If i'm wrong, then I had no choice but to reply as I did.

The flaw is in saying that you think I am saying we have free-will to choose in changing punishment systems or freely choose weather or not you believe in this.

It is stated in the video (and in the peer reviewed studies that this video is about), that choices are based off environment, genes and actions within the subconscious.

Just like you didn't freely choose to find this information correct, you also didn't "freely" choose to over look the fact that the human mind can be altered, swayed and changed based on information added to the system.

Example- The human race once thought the world was flat. New information was presented. Human mind's changed to accept the new information.

Meaning, law systems and the people who run them can and will change in the face of new information.

If this info becomes factually proven as 100% truth…you will then accept it as if it is evident, just like you accept the world is not flat. OR you will refute it. Either way, you can not freely choose to believe this or not.

Your mind will do that for you subconsciously, and you will follow your subconsciousness (without free choice) either way.

MM

reply to post by GrassyTroll


In other words…you didn't even choose to see the mistake was yours, even when presented with the information.

Did you choose to ignore the information? or did your subconsciousness not pick up on it and thus call it a fatally flawed one?

I know the answer already…do you?

MM

Mr Mask
reply to post by GrassyTroll

 

In other words…you didn't even choose to see the mistake was yours, even when presented with the information.

Did you choose to ignore the information? or did your subconsciousness not pick up on it and thus call it a fatally flawed one?

I know the answer already…do you?

MM [/

Your prodigious mental acuity which allows you to plumb the depths of my subconscious even better than I can (with nothing else to go on than one brief comment, no less!) won't help you overcome the fact that arguing against free will is a logical absurdity, right up there with arguing that language is meaningless.

reply to post by GrassyTroll


Language is very limited

Brotherman
reply to post by GrassyTroll

 

Language is very limited

True, but if you believe it's meaningless, it's oxymoronic to use it to convince others that it's meaningless, since you intend your words to mean something.

GrassyTroll


Your prodigious mental acuity which allows you to plumb the depths of my subconscious even better than I can (with nothing else to go on than one brief comment, no less!) won't help you overcome the fact that arguing against free will is a logical absurdity, right up there with arguing that language is meaningless.

Sigh…ok, I see you are a bit upset over this. That's ok. Most people do not like their intuitions challenged. The 1925 Scopes Monkey Trial freaked out a lot of "intuitive opinions" as well.

This is not about my mental acuity sir. This is about basic physics.

This is not my "willy nilly opinion" I simply "feel".

This is something you can argue all you like, but the world is still round and what you call a logical absurdity is actually the logical conclusion of the physical laws of thermal dynamics.

My video isn't "me just assuming things because I have a hunch". Its based off 30+ years of lab experiments, physics and peer reviewed studies that lead to an ultimate idea.

What you seem to misunderstand is- the illogical absurdity is the "assumption" something as "impossible" as free will actually exists when physics shows such a thing to be silly and impossible.



MM

rudeboyrave
I absolutely love your videos. Keep up the good work brother!!!

Thanks brother!!! Thanks for digging the content and being so nice.

The world is a better place with people like you in it.


MM

reply to post by Mr Mask

Either way, I must say, I 100% do not think free-will can exist within the laws of physics, and that assuming they do is just an intuitive mistake in the leagues of "feeling the world is flat" and "thinking matter is 100% solid".




What laws of physics prevents free will?

Free will as you describe is about a fixed path, a chain reaction. You do not offer what you think caused that?

The argument of free will is eclipsed by why we need to choose either, what are we choosing, what is self, what started the reaction? Did we mean to have such choices or was it hoped for or was it the only way? Who or what?

Free will gives us choice.

Responsibility, choice, good bad, god or mutation. Consequence and judgment. Why and how.
Which outlook is better for society?

originally posted by: guidetube
reply to post by Mr Mask

Either way, I must say, I 100% do not think free-will can exist within the laws of physics, and that assuming they do is just an intuitive mistake in the leagues of "feeling the world is flat" and "thinking matter is 100% solid".

 

What laws of physics prevents free will?

Free will as you describe is about a fixed path, a chain reaction. You do not offer what you think caused that?

The argument of free will is eclipsed by why we need to choose either, what are we choosing, what is self, what started the reaction? Did we mean to have such choices or was it hoped for or was it the only way? Who or what?

Free will gives us choice.

Responsibility, choice, good bad, god or mutation. Consequence and judgment. Why and how.
Which outlook is better for society?

The laws of causality prevent the possibility of free choice, as the video went in depth explaining.

What is better for society is we come to terms with free will being an illusion for many reasons.

The most important being we stop punishing people in a way that insists these criminals had free choice to be criminals. It is overly inhumane to do so.

Another important change for human society would be losing an overabundance of hate for judging people as if they had a choice in their actions. When it is proven medically that a brain tumor caused an individual to do criminal things (something that has been proven to happen many times in medical science time and time again) that person is seen as a victim of his biological misfortune and treated as such.

The physical truth that we lack free will simply asks you to take that one step closer to factuality in saying you are a victim of your brain as you would be a victim of your brain tumor.

The FACT at hand is- if you were atom-for-atom the same person as Jeffrey Dahmer, you would be exactly like he was. You wouldn't have been a different person or made choices differently than he had. You would be a victim of your atomic makeup.

MM

In response to the title of this thread only.

No No No No No No No No No No....

I always say that one must look inside of their own head and try to figure out who put what in there and why.

I know that most of my thoughts and reactions are not entirely my own, but developed through conditioning inflicted upon me by others whether conscious or not.

The secret to free will is realizing this, and realizing others are just as screwed up as you are, and giving yourself and others a break because they may not even nearly completely understand the way they think and why.

And to arm yourself for the ones who believe free will is carte blanche to do whatever they please regardless of the will of others.

And we roll into another subject/topic entirely...

originally posted by: MyHappyDogShiner
In response to the title of this thread only.

No No No No No No No No No No....

Glad to see you do not think so.

MM

cuz I thought my reply a bit terse, I spewed on about it and made an ass of myself as I have been conditioned to do....
added to it ca reply to: Mr Mask

Never mind my parasympathetic nervous system which will not let me hold my breath until I die, no matter how hard I may try, and no matter how long I can hold my dirt it will come out whether I want it to or not, water too.

When one really honestly considers it, the thought of free will is kind of arrogant and silly.

But don't tell anyone else that, they don't really want to hear it.

Free will and all, ya know?.

Human kind has a long way to go, I won't live to see it figured out in my lifetime.

originally posted by: MyHappyDogShiner
Never mind my parasympathetic nervous system which will not let me hold my breath until I die, no matter how hard I may try, and no matter how long I can hold my dirt it will come out whether I want it to or not, water too.

When one really honestly considers it, the thought of free will is kind of arrogant and silly.

But don't tell anyone else that, they don't really want to hear it.

Free will and all, ya know?.

Human kind has a long way to go, I won't live to see it figured out in my lifetime.

The entire video agrees with you. I made it trying to explain why.

MM

I didn't watch the video because I am on a rather pricey "pay as you go " hotspot. These "free-will" topics have always intrigued me from a very young age.

I have watched so many people in the past get stuck on the topic, never realizing they really are not in a position to exercise much free will at all.

Someone who is free enough to think kinda clearly....

The Dalai Lama, when asked what surprised him most about humanity, answered "Man. Because he sacrifices his health in order to make money. Then he sacrifices money to recuperate his health. And then he is so anxious about the future that he does not enjoy the present; the result being that he does not live in the present or the future; he lives as if he is never going to die, and then dies having never really lived."

Once one realizes they have so little free will to work with, they can begin working with the little free-will they actually have and at least honestly find something resembling happiness, or at least peace.

Maybe...The more I learn, the less I know.

a reply to: Mr Mask

a reply to: MyHappyDogShiner

I agree that we re products of our past. They had similar struggles just on a less progressed level than ours.
The basic needs are the basic needs. The choices are limitless only influenced not decided.

originally posted by: MyHappyDogShiner

Maybe...The more I learn, the less I know.

a reply to: Mr Mask

That right there is something that I learn more and more as the years pass. How did I know everything in the universe when I was a teen...I swear I did! But as an aging adult I know zero for sure.

MM