John Kerry: 'Russia Has Until Monday to Reverse Course in Ukraine"

reply to post by ForteanOrg


E.U though its gobbling up states it isn't really helping their economy much , the west and US has been loosing Economic and diplomatic influence in Asian countries and through out the world. The E.U themselves is too divided and dependent on Russia to really cause them any harm. Europeans themselves are part of the 20 major countries which has decided to bypass the dollar and trade in local currencies so its basically every man for himself ..

Though i agree that Russia has been loosing influence for past 25 years , it has also gained some influence and clout in these past 5 years . Having an Ally like China and united BRICS nations really compensates for all those lost east European countries..

West is desperate, i believe the whole reason for Ukraine coup was to get the access to Oil and Gas in Crimean coast than anything else , compared to past actions of the western powers. When Russia took Crimea , this really came as an unexpected move for the west and that is the reason you are seeing American leadership being a bit paranoid when it comes to referendum in Crimea..

I believe This was being planned by Putin for years , . I believe Eastern Ukraine is gone , considering the worlds coming from Moscow.

Russia said on Friday it reserved the right to protect compatriots in eastern Ukraine after clashes in the city of Donetsk in which one person was killed.

The people who represent this Country are a joke. It's a miracle we're all still alive. How can someone from a bankrupt nation, be taken seriously?

maddy21
reply to post by ForteanOrg

 

E.U though its gobbling up states it isn't really helping their economy much ,

Really? From Wikipedia: "The economy of the European Union generates a GDP of over €12.894 trillion (US$16.566 trillion in 2012) according to Eurostat, which makes it the largest economy in the world if treated as a single economy.

the west and US has been loosing Economic and diplomatic influence in Asian countries and through out the world.

I don't believe the EU wants to be the dominant power in the world. They will be - eventually - but not because it is their ambition, but because it is inevitable given the course they have set out and the tactics they employ. Unplanned, by accident, but inevitable. See, the Europeans just want to do ONE thing: do business with others. Regardless if you have a fascist, nationalist, socialist or capitalist government, the Europeans will try to do business with you. And if you accept them, they will start influencing you: by the way they speak, dress, do business, by their financial systems, their political systems, their fallibility (that may sound weird but it is a fact: people don't like infallible countries). They use "soft power" to spread their mentality, their laws, their political system (which is a moderate egalitarian socialist system) and their currency. Europeans don't have an impressive army of military men - they have an impressive army of business men.

The E.U themselves is too divided and dependent on Russia to really cause them any harm. Europeans themselves are part of the 20 major countries which has decided to bypass the dollar and trade in local currencies so its basically every man for himself ..

The EU does not really depend on Russia, that's nonsense. Nor does it depend on any other individual country. The EU depends on the total of many countries, amongst them Russia.

Though i agree that Russia has been loosing influence for past 25 years , it has also gained some influence and clout in these past 5 years . Having an Ally like China and united BRICS nations really compensates for all those lost east European countries..

Well, Russia is gradually changing into an European country itself. That process has begun hundreds of years ago, for example my country (The Netherlands) had a big influence on the Russian Czar Peter the Great; Peter even built his new then capital city of Russia (Petersburg) as a replica of Amsterdam, including canals and bridges. The Russian admirality even adopted the Dutch flag.

West is desperate, i believe the whole reason for Ukraine coup was to get the access to Oil and Gas in Crimean coast

I don't think the west is desperate at all - I haven't seen any evidence of it. Also, the dependencies you see with regard to energy are absent, for example: my country has a rich source of natural gas, coal and we are currently building massive amounts of wind-mills. We also (alas) still have nuclear energy. So, to say we totally depend on Russia - that's a bit of an overstatement. As a matter of fact we have been EXPORTING gas to Russia for decades..

When Russia took Crimea , this really came as an unexpected move for the west and that is the reason you are seeing American leadership being a bit paranoid when it comes to referendum in Crimea..

The referendum is not in accordance with current Ukrainian laws and hence unlawful in the eyes of the Ukrainians - and in the eyes of other European countries. But personally I dont' think it matters much: even if you would organise a lawful referendum, the outcome would be the same. The majority of the Crimeans really WANT tot be part of Russia for now, they speak Russian, have always been Russian and never really Ukrainian. So, let them - a free people should be allowed to choose their own destiny!

Europeans should continue to trade with Crimeans nevertheless and in the end the Crimeans will voluntarily decide to join the EU, as all these other countries did - I'm sure. The EU will continue to grow and learn from other cultures, merge and mix them, and finally we will see Turkey and Russia join the EU - and perhaps, in the end, the entire continent, including China, will be one economical and cultural union. I may even live to see that day!

believe This was being planned by Putin for years , . I believe Eastern Ukraine is gone , considering the worlds coming from Moscow.

Maybe. i don't care much, actually. Even if Putin decides to conquer Europe - he's too late. Pandora's box has been opened. We are winning, and winning fast.

Man, I can't believe how paranoid some of you are. I really can't understand how you can go about your every day lives as if the world is going to end every 3 weeks.

The same thing will happen with this as has happened a hundred times before. Someone will back down and in a month you won't even hear about it anymore.

ForteanOrg
Really? From Wikipedia: "The economy of the European Union generates a GDP of over €12.894 trillion (US$16.566 trillion in 2012) according to Eurostat, which makes it the largest economy in the world if treated as a single economy.

Largest economy or not , you have staggering unemployment figures .. United states being the largest economy in the world is facing some serious problem themselves . Like the U.S European countries are going through a sovereign debt crisis

b-i.forbesimg.com...

b-i.forbesimg.com...

www.theguardian.com...

I don't believe the EU wants to be the dominant power in the world. They will be - eventually - but not because it is their ambition, but because it is inevitable given the course they have set out and the tactics they employ. Unplanned, by accident, but inevitable. See, the Europeans just want to do ONE thing: do business with others. Regardless if you have a fascist, nationalist, socialist or capitalist government, the Europeans will try to do business with you. And if you accept them, they will start influencing you: by the way they speak, dress, do business, by their financial systems, their political systems, their fallibility (that may sound weird but it is a fact: people don't like infallible countries). They use "soft power" to spread their mentality, their laws, their political system (which is a moderate egalitarian socialist system) and their currency. Europeans don't have an impressive army of military men - they have an impressive army of business men.

E.U will be a dominant power in Europe but their influence will not matter much elsewhere . E.U is more a regional power than anything else .

The EU does not really depend on Russia, that's nonsense. Nor does it depend on any other individual country. The EU depends on the total of many countries, amongst them Russia.

You actually do , You depend on Russia for your oil and Gas supplies . If you could change your supplies from Russia to USA or Saudi's you could but you cannot. You need to build the infrastructure necessary for it and that takes 5-6 years . Europe also exports massive amounts of goods to Russia . Goods which can be easily replaced by any other nation in Asia ...Machinery ,chemicals ,cars is nothing special those items can be replaced by Chinese, Indian or other Asian countries

Well, Russia is gradually changing into an European country itself. That process has begun hundreds of years ago, for example my country (The Netherlands) had a big influence on the Russian Czar Peter the Great; Peter even built his new then capital city of Russia (Petersburg) as a replica of Amsterdam, including canals and bridges. The Russian admirality even adopted the Dutch flag.

Does not really matter , as long as putin stays at the helm he will always oppose European Union and NATO

I don't think the west is desperate at all - I haven't seen any evidence of it. Also, the dependencies you see with regard to energy are absent, for example: my country has a rich source of natural gas, coal and we are currently building massive amounts of wind-mills. We also (alas) still have nuclear energy. So, to say we totally depend on Russia - that's a bit of an overstatement. As a matter of fact we have been EXPORTING gas to Russia for decades..

The fact that you have been invading oil rich countries like Iraq,Libya,Syria proves it quiet clearly . Libya was attacked because Gaddafi wanted to make a new currency called Dinar backed by gold with which he would have traded only in Dinar completely bypassing the Dollar and Euro . He was brutally attacked bombed and killed . There was also a recent report of America taking away the Gold in Ukraine for "safe keeping" in U.S

The referendum is not in accordance with current Ukrainian laws and hence unlawful in the eyes of the Ukrainians - and in the eyes of other European countries. But personally I dont' think it matters much: even if you would organise a lawful referendum, the outcome would be the same. The majority of the Crimeans really WANT tot be part of Russia for now, they speak Russian, have always been Russian and never really Ukrainian. So, let them - a free people should be allowed to choose their own destiny!

An armed coup displacing an elected government is also not according to Ukrainian laws , They could have waited until re elections are made a vote of no confidence to throw him out of power , but it had to be an armed coup . The fact that several policemen were shot and killed and the current Ukrainian regime has 4 leaders from a nationalist party should be enough to raise questions ... But as for Crimea and Eastern Ukraine ..i think its lost ..It would be stupid of Russia to take Crimea and not take eastern Ukraine as most of Crimea's gas and water supply comes from Eastern Ukraine

Europeans should continue to trade with Crimeans nevertheless and in the end the Crimeans will voluntarily decide to join the EU, as all these other countries did - I'm sure. The EU will continue to grow and learn from other cultures, merge and mix them, and finally we will see Turkey and Russia join the EU - and perhaps, in the end, the entire continent, including China, will be one economical and cultural union. I may even live to see that day!

Europeans have always been the pro business type , France and Russia were the two countries which traded with India after Sanctions were launched on India by US after we exploded nukes, as long as money is on the cards good or bad Europe seems to go ahead with it. AM all good with Cultural union and world union as long as the PTB are good guys and don't discriminate ...

Maybe. i don't care much, actually. Even if Putin decides to conquer Europe - he's too late. Pandora's box has been opened. We are winning, and winning fast.

I think you are over estimating yourselves . Russia and China could quiet easily cause serious economic harm to Europe . What ever happens from now on will have serious consequences . Its too late now ..

"And Putin doesn't blink, ever".

What is it with this romantic infatuation with a short 5'5" former KGB agent with a massive inferiority complex? I find it funny that people romantically fantasize about a modern day dictator who is against individual rights and freedoms. Putin only cares about stroking his own ego and nothing more.

Do we REALLY believe that the public statements are representative of the truth, and what is going on behind the scenes? The conversations between Obama and Putin are top secret, and the full story is not being reported on. There's a good likelihood that the public statements are intended for public consumption, but by no means representative of the truth.

Bitxushanty

It's very dangerous to threat Russia right now, not just because of China, but also to remind half Russia is Muslim...

Easy there dude. Only 6.5% of Russians are Muslims. From that number to go and say half of the population is Muslim not only is a big jump but also disinformation.

reply to post by OptimusCrime

The same thing will happen with this as has happened a hundred times before. Someone will back down and in a month you won't even hear about it anymore.

I think you're right (sure hope so).

I've lived with the cold war all my life (in my 50s now) and there have been heart-stopping moments in every decade since the 60s. The worst single incident was, hands down, the 1962 Cuban missile crisis (thank God I was too young to have known what was going on). But the worst decade for me was the 1980s ("Two Tribes" by Frankie Goes To Hollywood aptly summed up the mood of the times).

In the grand scheme of things, the present crisis is nothing special.

But it could all go to hell in a heartbeat - Putin & Kerry don't like to take backward steps.

As long as diplomatic avenues remain open, everything's hunky dory.

If these shut, it's open season.

I've always felt that a world war would not start with a preemptive nuclear strike but with a conventional confrontation.

Then of course, when one side starts to lose...

So Obama's lackey Kerry is running his mouth like his boss with nothing to back it up, Europe won't stand with the U.S., without them what Kerry says has no backbone, like the two clowns trying to initiate it.

Can it get any more embarrassing for the U.S.A. ???????

reply to post by CJCrawley


Must have been a horrible period to live through!!!

Even now when two Tribes go to War... It's still all about Money!!!

I'd suspect that The Cold War never ended...
It just went underground for a couple of decades because it was much more diplomatic!!!
Now it's in the headlines again...
It's time for the public to pay attention again!!!

This is what I like accept about the Elite...
They may hide disguise things... Doesn't mean those things are not there to be noticed somewhere!


We need to see the signs...
& read between the lines!!!
It Sometimes seems that trouble lies ahead...
& Underneath the rubble lie the dead!!!

I hope only the first part of my little Poem is our future!!!



Peace CJ!

Telos

Bitxushanty

It's very dangerous to threat Russia right now, not just because of China, but also to remind half Russia is Muslim...

Easy there dude. Only 6.5% of Russians are Muslims. From that number to go and say half of the population is Muslim not only is a big jump but also disinformation.

Why is it that in 15 years the Russian army will have a majority of Muslims then?
I read this on more than one occasion.

I don't really base my comments on assumptions. I like to check first the numbers and those numbers speak differently. 6.5 % cannot be considered half. It is just a minority.

Many website are saying that the Russian army could become Muslim majority
in the future.
Some of the websites are not that reliable others appear to be though.

Source

Feb. 28, 2006 update: Paul Goble, an expert on minorities in the former Soviet Union, agrees with the mufti. Within most of our lifetimes the Russian Federation, assuming it stays within current borders, will be a Muslim country. That is it will have a Muslim majority and even before that the growing number of people of Muslim background in Russia will have a profound impact on Russian foreign policy. The assumption in Western Europe or the United States that Moscow is part of the European concert of powers is no longer valid. … The Muslim growth rate, since 1989, is between 40 and 50 percent, depending on ethnic groups. Most of that is in the Caucuses or from immigration from Central Asia or Azerbaijan. Goble notes the exponential growth in Islam since the demise of the Soviet Union: Russia had about 300 mosques in 1991 and now there are at least 8,000, about half of which were built with money from abroad, especially from Turkey, Iran and Saudi Arabia. There were no Islamic religious schools in 1991 and today there are between 50 and 60, teaching as many as 50,000 students. The number of Russians going on the hajj each year, has jumped from 40 in 1991 to 13,500 in 2005. He quotes a Russian commentator predicting that within the next several decades there will be a mosque on Red Square.

reply to post by Telos

AnAbsoluteCreation
I'd like to add.

The people making these decisions are privy to much more information than ATS armchair politicians.

Bottom line, Russia cannot threaten to stop delivering gas. So what else do they have?

AAC

Switch to trading oil in gold backed renminabi, replace the USD as reserve currency; and collapse the entire array of global economic fiat currencies, leaving only their's (Russia and China's) backed by gold as a stable exchange?

That would be my guess.

BRIICS

God Bless,

reply to post by ElohimJD


Is collapsing the US dollar feasible though.. I wonder?
If the US and its allies have nothing to spend.. then who is going to buy:

Russia's Natural Gas and oil products,

Chinese Products in general,

I think it is a two way street and to say that Russia and China can
collapse western currencies at will is far fetched to say the least.

If they can do this can you show me how Russia and China would achieve this.

I wonder if John Kerry gets migraine headaches like Rocky Dennis did? I swear that dude's head looks like it's going to explode. Just a thought. ~$heopleNation

HanzHenry
reply to post by FlyersFan

 

The US cant handle a war against Russia.

Think if how an awesome team keeps playing scrubs, then they lose skills. And when they play a real team get smoked.

The US has been at war with scrubs in Afghanistan and Iraq. The bar has been so low.

If the US goes to war against someone significant it may be a complete blowout

Now I am reminded how sad the last Super Bowl was!

My hometown team (DEN) played scrubs all year; looked unstoppable, then went up against a real defense (SEA) and got blown out by 35!

Go broncos!

THE LATEST -

RUSSIA PRETTY MUCH TELLS WASHINGTON TO GO JUMP IN A LAKE

So .. it comes down to Kerry's little red line drawn in the sand .... MONDAY.

Whatchya' gunna' do Kerry? You had to know that Putin wasn't going to take you seriously.

I just want to point out that Monday is St. Paddy's Day. It's an interesting day to choose.

There is going to be a lot of heavily intoxicated Americans who won't be paying attention.