Why are they so secretive

borntowatch

"Why are aliens so secretive and in cohorts with the, well lets say, less than honest people in governments.

Simple answer to your question: They're NOT!

Seriously, Extraterrestrials...(this will sound a bit strange) from "off planet" are not secretive, nor in cahoots with Terrestrial Government.

6000 - 8000 years ago there was a colonization attempt here on the Earth. That "project" failed...the outcome was the stories of the illuminati, the Elites, etc. and, of course, the "Hybrids". All from the same source...

The "illuminati" types very quickly took control of the "world", and have been in control for about 6000 years. The other's (lower caste ET's) became what was mixed with the Terrestrial gene pool and produced a kind of "hybrid" (actually this should be viewed as deliberate contamination).

For the most part; "off world" ETs are not unlike a Terrestrial "naturalist"; going into the wild to mark and examine the wildlife. To study said "wild life" for science.

Notes on visiting ETs:

There are several articles here that begin to explain.

Well, alot of people will say violent species is one, due to us having Nukes, and even testing them in the same atmosphere(or planet) like the genius they are. I don't think that simply the case, considering the amount of civilizations that could have wipe themselves out, or have been wiped out.

It could be for various reason really. Maybe their technology is just to radical for our current level of understanding. Too them, we are just dumb children.

Also, psychological reasons, cause everyone wants to see an alien, or Ufo. However, I think this could go wrong in so many ways.

And no, I believe the government doesn't know sh*t all about them. Maybe how some of their technology works, but nothing about their nature, or psychology. I think the rumors of alien contacting the government is somewhat seldom, if it ever occurred at all. And they dodge the government/military much like ordinary people.

Maybe they are benevolent enough to leave us alone, or let us breath. Many will complain about them not helping us, but that's their problem. Considering they complain aliens, much like it was topic about God.

If ET does exist, they probably don't even realize they are being 'secretive' in their actions. When you are outside observing wildlife, animals, birds, fish and insects, do you really attempt to explain to the subjects why you are observing them? I certainly don't, the idea that they may communicate with me is almost laughable. Do they see me observing them, not always. Why would an advanced species think any different about us if we are considered lower life forms to them? Wouldn't they just go about their observing and studying not attempting to do so in secret but oblivious to the fact that it even concerns us?

DarksideOz
reply to post by intrptr

 

Your take is very close to the mark in my opinion.

If people could just imagine for one second that it was to be revealed that Aliens do exist and HAVE made contact, and what impact it would have worldwide. This revelation will completely change EVERYTHING we thought we knew. After the initial running to the leaders for help, the realisation of how insignificant our 'leaders' are, will then render them and their power, useless.
It will cause many to question their religion. This will have a very negative impact on religion, and we can't have that now, can we ?
Our education system as we know it, will have a completely new outlook and approach. If Alien existence is revealed, then what happens to all those stories of evolution that occupies most non religious schools ? Does the story change, is it thrown out all together, or does it help explain our existence even better ?
Basically, it will change societies entire outlook and mentality. Too much effort has gone into building up religion and politics to just let it all come crashing down by revealing one piece of information. The powers that be are doing a good enough job of controlling the masses through religion and politics, without having to risk it all by revealing information that will, as you rightly said, upset the apple cart !

True it will change a lot of things.

But why hide the truth/themselves, why secrecy?
Isnt it common sense to just face the so called facts and deal with it. Are we all that fragile


As for religion, I am a Christian (well trying) and I expect them to show up,
it will cement my faith further

I am one of the believers that think they are demons pretending to be off planet life forms.
They have always been here.

reply to post by borntowatch


Exactly. Sentient life, capable of things that we as a modern day species could only dream of. Being viewed as Gods, angels, or demons. Blocking the gate to heaven or paradise.

I think viewing them as Gods, is a good f'in reason. Might bring some old sky god superstitions, as well as tribal wars, if they wanted to teach us a meaning of pain.

Nothing against you, or your faith. However, I don't see them destroying or resurrecting temples.

draknoir2

EnPassant
reply to post by Abavs

 

Carl Sagan was obviously a debunker. He knew far more about ufos than he pretended.

Such as?
And how did you come by this knowledge?

Sagan was in a study group for ufos. Here is his debunkery of the Hill case. He says the star map is central to the Hill case. It is not. It is only a secondary item. He 'debunks' the map by pointing out that it could be found if one simply looks at enough star configurations - that's true but it say NOTHING about the veracity of the map. Regardless of whether a star map is made up or real it should be possible to find a match in the heavens. So his observation neither adds nor subtracts anything from the Hill case. He knows this. He knows but he is just trying to impress with a 'scientific' air about his presentation. This is BAD debunkery. At 4.25 listen to the way he venomously and sarcastically pronounces 'star map' and 'routes'. I never liked his pompous tone of voice either - he is clearly determined to debunk this case but has nothing on it :dn

CynConcepts
If ET does exist, they probably don't even realize they are being 'secretive' in their actions. When you are outside observing wildlife, animals, birds, fish and insects, do you really attempt to explain to the subjects why you are observing them? I certainly don't, the idea that they may communicate with me is almost laughable. Do they see me observing them, not always. Why would an advanced species think any different about us if we are considered lower life forms to them? Wouldn't they just go about their observing and studying not attempting to do so in secret but oblivious to the fact that it even concerns us?

edit on 3 13 2014 by CynConcepts because: Correction and clarification.

They are not studying wildlife. They are trying to get mental control over human beings who will allow them. Their agenda is about getting a human and hybrid interface between them and us so they can get power in this world.

EnPassant
They are semi secret because they know that there is a certain kind of person that will serve them. They want to sieve out these people and work with them in secret and keep anyone who would be a nuisance away.

edit on 13-3-2014 by EnPassant because: (no reason given)

This in itself is a type of, well, the term escapes me. But it has to do with a power, publisher, etc, not wanting to hear, read, etc, counterpoints to what the story they want to tell. Anyone who knows this term, please share.

I suspect the reason has to do with attributes they posses, but wish not to share with us. In other words, if they made themselves a reality, they would also have to answer thousands of questions, some of a very sensitive nature. They would have to admit to their own hypocrisies, selfishness, power trips, and ego.

There was a thread some years back that had to do with "Tree People". I suppose this name is a attempt to describe one of the "Alien" societies, not only their size, but where they come from. The thread went into some detail as to what the "Aliens" wanted from us, unquestioning loyalty! In the thread they also said that these aliens had not treated us with the same respect they expect from us, and so, they wait until we can "Behave" ourselves to their standards.

It also went on to discuss that this alien society has very little to no empathy towards us and generally look down at us as less that them.

So I suspect the secrecy has more to do with them saving face, rather than them fearing our warring manners. Certainly, if this were the case they would choose who they were to interact with so that those worrisome questions would never be asked.

I suspect, even in our "Dumb ed down" state, the questions they fear the most would still be asked in the court of public opinion. Certainly, I believe "Honesty is the best policy", but when you are raised to consider yourself "Sons of God", you would not consider offering apologies, to a lesser creation, "Sons of Man". And for those who might understand the following, I offer this, the Divine Creator himself, would definitely be considered a nuisance. They just don't seem to like people with, "spunk" (Spirit).

What they (Aliens) may not know is that the Divine Creator already sees into their hearts and minds, and sees the love and sadness they carry. It is only a matter of time before they "Judge" themselves. For in truth, we, the lesser, have no earthly right, to judge them, because, we have never walked a mile in their shoes............

The only question I would pose to them is, how many more generations will come and go before we are allowed to see the tall trees, in the garden..........

All Seeing EyeSo I suspect the secrecy has more to do with them saving face, rather than them fearing our warring manners. Certainly, if this were the case they would choose who they were to interact with so that those worrisome questions would never be asked.

I suspect, even in our "Dumb ed down" state, the questions they fear the most would still be asked in the court of public opinion. Certainly, I believe "Honesty is the best policy", but when you are raised to consider yourself "Sons of God", you would not consider offering apologies, to a lesser creation, "Sons of Man". And for those who might understand the following, I offer this, the Divine Creator himself, would definitely be considered a nuisance. They just don't seem to like people with, "spunk" (Spirit).

What they (Aliens) may not know is that the Divine Creator already sees into their hearts and minds, and sees the love and sadness they carry. It is only a matter of time before they "Judge" themselves. For in truth, we, the lesser, have no earthly right, to judge them, because, we have never walked a mile in their shoes............

The only question I would pose to them is, how many more generations will come and go before we are allowed to see the tall trees, in the garden..........

Well said. One of the reasons they fear revealing themselves is that they would be under the scrutiny of our moral judgements. If they say they are on God's side they would have to demonstrate this. If they say they are not, they will be judged as antichrist.

EnPassant
They are semi secret because they know that there is a certain kind of person that will serve them. They want to sieve out these people and work with them in secret and keep anyone who would be a nuisance away.

This is where the evidence leads. It is, to my mind, the best way to explain their behaviour.

EnPassant
He 'debunks' the map by pointing out that it could be found if one simply looks at enough star configurations - that's true but it say NOTHING about the veracity of the map. Regardless of whether a star map is made up or real it should be possible to find a match in the heavens.

You are aware that the "view" in the Hill map is not from Earth, right?

The view is from approximately: RA: 10.9h; Decl: -80.3; 250ly.

And the "match" is quite close... All potentially habitable areas, some stars even have known planets.



Article

EnPassant

draknoir2

EnPassant
reply to post by Abavs

 

Carl Sagan was obviously a debunker. He knew far more about ufos than he pretended.

Such as?
And how did you come by this knowledge?

Sagan was in a study group for ufos. Here is his debunkery of the Hill case. He says the star map is central to the Hill case. It is not. It is only a secondary item. He 'debunks' the map by pointing out that it could be found if one simply looks at enough star configurations - that's true but it say NOTHING about the veracity of the map. Regardless of whether a star map is made up or real it should be possible to find a match in the heavens. So his observation neither adds nor subtracts anything from the Hill case. He knows this. He knows but he is just trying to impress with a 'scientific' air about his presentation. This is BAD debunkery. At 4.25 listen to the way he venomously and sarcastically pronounces 'star map' and 'routes'. I never liked his pompous tone of voice either - he is clearly determined to debunk this case but has nothing on it :dn

edit on 13-3-2014 by EnPassant because: (no reason given)

edit on 13-3-2014 by EnPassant because: (no reason given)

Carl Sagan was obviously a debunker. He knew far more about ufos than he pretended.

Sorry. I took this to mean that you knew him to be pretending not to have some undisclosed knowledge of UFO's, and not simply an awareness that he was not adding to or detracting from the Hill case. Anyone who takes an oppositional stance to established UFO folklore is going to be labeled a "debunker", and his field of study put him in that position more than most.

tanka418

EnPassant
He 'debunks' the map by pointing out that it could be found if one simply looks at enough star configurations - that's true but it say NOTHING about the veracity of the map. Regardless of whether a star map is made up or real it should be possible to find a match in the heavens.

You are aware that the "view" in the Hill map is not from Earth, right?

The view is from approximately: RA: 10.9h; Decl: -80.3; 250ly.

And the "match" is quite close... All potentially habitable areas, some stars even have known planets.



Article

edit on 13-3-2014 by tanka418 because: (no reason given)

Maybe the star map is true and maybe it shows the aliens base (I don't believe they originate in our neighborhood). But it doesn't matter to me. The aliens once told someone they were from 'A small galaxy near Neptune'. Maybe they just showed her the map to make her believe she is being shown something important, to make her feel important. The fact is, it is only a very secondary piece of information and Sagan is trying to use it to debunk the Hill case. That video of Sagan's is clearly an attempt to debunk regardless of the facts. The star map cannot be used to substantiate any debunking argument. Sagan, being a scientist, would understand this.

reply to post by draknoir2


Sagan also says that the Hill case hinges on the star map - just after 4:00 he says that 'Believers find this account compelling *CHIEFLY* because of the star map'. Here he is setting up 'believers' just to tear them down with his ever so knowledgeable explanation which follows on after that. The fact is that people don't believe in the Hill case 'chiefly' because of the star map. He is speaking with a forked tongue, pretending that everything hinges on the star map. He is debunking.

I don't think Sagan is honestly taking a stance. He is way too sarcastic in his tone and this leads me to believe that he is biased in his presentation.

EnPassant
reply to post by draknoir2

 

Sagan also says that the Hill case hinges on the star map - just after 4:00 he says that 'Believers find this account compelling *CHIEFLY* because of the star map'. Here he is setting up 'believers' just to tear them down with his ever so knowledgeable explanation which follows on after that. The fact is that people don't believe in the Hill case 'chiefly' because of the star map. He is speaking with a forked tongue, pretending that everything hinges on the star map. He is debunking.

I don't think Sagan is honestly taking a stance. He is way too sarcastic in his tone and this leads me to believe that he is biased in his presentation.

edit on 13-3-2014 by EnPassant because: (no reason given)

I get that you don't like him, but I'm still not seeing the undisclosed knowledge of UFOs.

I find it interesting that an entire religion has blossomed from the star map and the experience of the Hills to the point where people have such a strong emotional investment in it all being true. And like many religions, there are even people making money from it!

"Fascinating."
-- Spock

draknoir2

EnPassant
reply to post by draknoir2

 

Sagan also says that the Hill case hinges on the star map - just after 4:00 he says that 'Believers find this account compelling *CHIEFLY* because of the star map'. Here he is setting up 'believers' just to tear them down with his ever so knowledgeable explanation which follows on after that. The fact is that people don't believe in the Hill case 'chiefly' because of the star map. He is speaking with a forked tongue, pretending that everything hinges on the star map. He is debunking.

I don't think Sagan is honestly taking a stance. He is way too sarcastic in his tone and this leads me to believe that he is biased in his presentation.

edit on 13-3-2014 by EnPassant because: (no reason given)

I get that you don't like him, but I'm still not seeing the undisclosed knowledge of UFOs.

This is interesting...

Blue Shift
I find it interesting that an entire religion has blossomed from the star map and the experience of the Hills to the point where people have such a strong emotional investment in it all being true. And like many religions, there are even people making money from it!

"Fascinating."
-- Spock

I don't know if the Hills case is true but Sagan's presentation is unbelievably conceited.

EnPassant

draknoir2

EnPassant
reply to post by draknoir2

 

Sagan also says that the Hill case hinges on the star map - just after 4:00 he says that 'Believers find this account compelling *CHIEFLY* because of the star map'. Here he is setting up 'believers' just to tear them down with his ever so knowledgeable explanation which follows on after that. The fact is that people don't believe in the Hill case 'chiefly' because of the star map. He is speaking with a forked tongue, pretending that everything hinges on the star map. He is debunking.

I don't think Sagan is honestly taking a stance. He is way too sarcastic in his tone and this leads me to believe that he is biased in his presentation.

edit on 13-3-2014 by EnPassant because: (no reason given)

I get that you don't like him, but I'm still not seeing the undisclosed knowledge of UFOs.

This is interesting...

A little late, but that's what I was looking for.

EnPassant
I don't know if the Hills case is true but Sagan's presentation is unbelievably conceited.

Well, he was not a stupid guy, and as far as popular science guys are concerned, he was generally very positive about the possibility of alien life when a lot of other people weren't. He even suggested that we'd find alien bases on the far side of the Moon (we didn't, BTW). So it's not that he was anti-alien. He just didn't like the many, many deficiencies in the Hill case, including the map. And rightly so.

While the case had some physical evidence -- which didn't lead anywhere -- the case mostly relies on shaky memories of a possible traumatic event, recalled under hypnosis. I've been involved in traumatic events like automobile accidents, and I can tell you that fear, pain and confusion are not that conducive to remembering a lot of details.

I was never a big Carl Sagan fan when he was alive, but over the years I've come to see him as being relatively fair-minded and by no means adverse to the notion of aliens. Just not these particular aliens.

Blue Shift
I was never a big Carl Sagan fan when he was alive, but over the years I've come to see him as being relatively fair-minded and by no means adverse to the notion of aliens. Just not these particular aliens.

Two points-

Firstly, people who don't believe in 'aliens' often shift the conversation over to how there could be aliens out there - given all the stars in the universe and all the possible planets - you know the argument. I often feel that this is a kind of diversion, as if they want to put them out of reach, as if they want to be seen to make a concession to belief but at the same time imply that if they exist it is unlikely they are here. They may well believe there could be aliens out there but they seem to use this possibility to shift the question out beyond the stars. To get them away from earth.

Secondly, some of the high level debunkers (Sagan???) might well be in the loop: one of their superiors brought them into the office one day and said "Look, these ufonauts are real and they are dangerous in all kinds of ways. It is imperative that we reduce public interest in them because public interest gives them power and we don't want that do we? So, your job is to water things down. Dispel public interest and stop these ufonauts from getting a hold on people and getting mental control over them. "

So, the debunker goes about his business and believes he is doing people a favour by keeping aliens away from them - and he may be right in this belief.