Does conservatism survive the death of religion?

On the new episode of Through the Wormhole a mathematician figured out that at the present rate of decline. Most of the population of the U.S. Would be athiest or agnostic by 2050. After that the decline should speed up until it resides only in the history books.


Here's my question. If this is the case. Does conservatism evolve (hehe) and survive? Or does it die with religion?

Also, where does the GOP go if they can't use religion to get people to vote for them. I personally think the GOP goes libertarian. Honestly I think that's where the country really is anyway. I think it's a mix of what the dems are offering mixed with social libertarianism and global "isolationism". I personally think we might start heading that way now. The only republican with ANY chance to win nationally is rand Paul.

There will be no death of religion. That's a wild extrapolation if there ever was one. The majority of the American population is still religious. Immigrants are overwhelmingly religious. Expecting an entire system of belief, and the associated culture, to fade away in about 30 years is quite unrealistic, IMO.

reply to post by ArtemisE


Reminds me of an article I read in the late 80's early 90's where the author of the article predicted that males would soon be wearing as much make-up as the girls, in general. You see how well that worked out. Some boys do wear gobs of stuff on their faces, but not the vast majority, as these folks claimed. See, most of these predictions are based on existing fads of the time. Fact is, fads fade.

reply to post by Cathcart


No. In 30 years we will be at 51/49 nonbelievers vs believers.... Might take a century before only 10% believe. But could conservatism survive without it?

reply to post by ArtemisE


The fiscal and isolation type conservatism will. That is when I will become a Republican again, if I am around.

Yes, because balancing your budget is a completely religious notion. /sarc

This is, btw, one of the central principles in conservative and principled libertarian thought.

Also, there is the belief that the individual is best suited to make their own decisions in life, not the government. This is also a conservative belief.

The idea that religion and the notion of theocracy is at all conservative is one of the left's favorite boogeymen.

You will these days find that the idea of collective salvation infests many churches and is much more liberal/leftist than it is traditionally conservative/classical liberal or libertarian. Liberation theology which is found in many African-American churches like the one Barack Obama attended for 20 years is an attempted fusion of Marxist thought with Christian theology. Schools of theology such as these are much more attractive to those who believe in leftist/liberal beliefs and want to be religious, and there are plenty of churches that are trending in this direction.

So whether or not you believe that religion will die out, this idea that religion is an all conservative thing is incorrect. There are plenty of liberal denominations, and I would submit that those denominations are the ones who are most likely to push a more theocratic government (although they won't call it that) because they believe that no one can be saved unless all are saved (collective salvation) which leads to the belief that it is the duty of government to save people. You find this thought in both big government 'Pubs and Dems. Huckabee was honest about it. Obama was not as honest about it, but you can find references to it in some of his answers - see the one about the teacher taking away half a sandwich to share it with a kid who had none, for example. He thinks the same as Huckabee even if he doesn't come out and say it exactly the same way.

What all that last paragraph means is that they will use the government as a tool to take from you and give to others - collectivism. Thus, removing your liberties in favor of notions of "fairness" and collective salvation. This is both a Marxist and liberation theocratic notion, and it comes with big government no matter which party makes those moves. Killing religion won't kill the impulse.

It's a mistake to equate conservatism with religion. First of all, religious people are not all conservative. Just as an example, the civil rights movement started in churches and was promoted by churches. Some of the most prominent activists in gay rights are churches. churches are more likely to set up homeless camps in their parking lots than your local liberal ACLU office. Many churches are very, very liberal, so your first mistake is equating religion with conservatism.

I imagine you are speaking of conservative religious groups and simply conveniently "forgot" the overwhelming number of liberal church denominations, but even here you are making a mistake. Conservative churches tend to identify with conservative political parties because they have nowhere else to go. If they had their OWN party, they'd go there, so instead they try to influence the most conservative party they can. But there is a lot of antagonism between political conservatives and the religious right. A few years ago the religious right succeeded in pretty much taking over the Republican party, and you know what happened? A lot of Republicans quit. Some of them were so angry that they became Democrats (I know this personally and could name names) and many of them became independents.

So your premise is all wrong. Religion does not equal conservatism. And that means your conclusion is wrong as well.

reply to post by ArtemisE


People will always worship something, if it's not religion than it will be the state.

Conservatives in America will always be controlled by the Religious Right wing. It's the core group with the campaign contribution and volunteers to spread the conservative agenda. Demographics of the GOP is pretty much white, male, working class, religious, and southern.

www.people-press.org...



The GOP with out support of minority voters and women are

SOL.


www.theatlantic.com...

Religion will never go out of style.........there's to much money in it.

ArtemisE
No. In 30 years we will be at 51/49 nonbelievers vs believers.... Might take a century before only 10% believe. But could conservatism survive without it?

You're stating this as if it was an inevitable reality, something that's already halfway done, instead of a statistical prediction (an incorrect one IMO) based on the trends of the last couple of years. Let's take a look at religion in America right now. About 75-80% of the population identifies as Christian, 4% are adherents of another religion, and more than 5% are unaffiliated but still have spiritual beliefs. Atheism is still marginal. It is mainly popular among youth, and what's more, its growth varies drastically from state to state. You're assuming that Atheism is rising at an alarming rate all over the US demographics, but that's not really the case.

reply to post by Cathcart


There is also the assumption that no one ever changes their religious/spiritual affiliation, too. Atheism is most popular among the young with religion being much more popular among the old, just like liberalism is more popular among the young with conservatism being more popular among the older folks. Clearly, some things tend to change with time because it's always been that way. Atheists tend to find God, and liberals tend to become more conservative.

And there is nothing wrong with that. It's natural - as you grow and change and gain experience your worldview also tends to change.

reply to post by ArtemisE



Well many hope that it would. The mind benders have held for a good while that if they could undermine and destroy christianity, in this country anyway, then the conservative mindset would follow. Keeping that in mind you will notice the constant barrage against Christianity on this site. Well its not all theological but political in its ends. And trust me they are not trying to tear christianity apart over petty lifestyle choices.

olaru12
Conservatives in America will always be controlled by the Religious Right wing. It's the core group with the campaign contribution and volunteers to spread the conservative agenda. Demographics of the GOP is pretty much white, male, working class, religious, and southern.

This is a lot of what I call "categorization propaganda". OR "demographical dissimulation". Otherwise known around here "bullsh*t".

If the predicted time for the death of religion is 2050, then I think that that would surely be the death of conservatism. Not that conservatives can't be atheist or agnostic, but I just don't see that happening. If conservatism were to survive, it would be unrecognizable to us, living now, as conservatism.

Logarock

olaru12
Conservatives in America will always be controlled by the Religious Right wing. It's the core group with the campaign contribution and volunteers to spread the conservative agenda. Demographics of the GOP is pretty much white, male, working class, religious, and southern.

This is a lot of what I call "categorization propaganda". OR "demographical dissimulation". Otherwise known around here "bullsh*t".

edit on 8-3-2014 by Logarock because: n

At least I backed up my post with sources. Here's a few more.
www.realclearpolitics.com...


www.outsidethebeltway.com...

news.yahoo.com...

Where's yours?

Even the GOP itself knows it has a serious "demographic problem" and they have steering committees working night and day to combat it.

www.nytimes.com...

Interesting supposition this thread is. Just a quick question...who is the man responsible for this quote?..

On religious issues there can be little or no compromise. There is no position on which people are so immovable as their religious beliefs. There is no more powerful ally one can claim in a debate than Jesus Christ, or God, or Allah, or whatever one calls this supreme being. But like any powerful weapon, the use of God's name on one's behalf should be used sparingly. The religious factions that are growing throughout our land are not using their religious clout with wisdom. They are trying to force government leaders into following their position 100 percent. If you disagree with these religious groups on a particular moral issue, they complain, they threaten you with a loss of money or votes or both. I'm frankly sick and tired of the political preachers across this country telling me as a citizen that if I want to be a moral person, I must believe in "A," "B," "C" and "D." Just who do they think they are? And from where do they presume to claim the right to dictate their moral beliefs to me? And I am even more angry as a legislator who must endure the threats of every religious group who thinks it has some God-granted right to control my vote on every roll call in the Senate. I am warning them today: I will fight them every step of the way if they try to dictate their moral convictions to all Americans in the name of "conservatism."

reply to post by azdaze


Johnson?? Just guessing.

reply to post by Logarock


While I agree that not all religious are conservative. I think you would be hard pressed to find a conservative who wasn't religious. I'm not trying to debate weather religion will exist in the future. I'm trying to debate if conservatism could survive as a major political force without the glue religion provides.


By 2050 everyone over say 45 will pretty much have died off. Like previous people have mentioned. The major majority of atheists/ agnostics are the youth and I promis you the actual % of late teen early 20s people who have gone against the organized religions has got to be 30 or 40%. So any future math has to figure that into the equation.

But back to the. OP. I would the conservative coalition survive without the glue of religion to unite there base. If Christianity were undenighably disproved. Would there still be enough tea party types to make a difference?

reply to post by azdaze


Barry Goldwater?

It would be useless to quote a liberal in this context to make his point. Co I'm guessing a rep.

reply to post by brazenalderpadrescorpio


My thought exactly! But 2050 is when the unbelievers are in the majority. Not when the last believer croaks. Lol