US Army Vet cuts down Mexican Flag flying over American Flag

reply to post by Pryde87

Maybe not everyone is an OCD flag nazi. Not everyone knows these "rules". But if that was this guys good intentions then he sure as hell will have a different view of Americans now. Good work.

I would honestly have thought it obvious, myself. If you have two national flags on a table to take out and fly on a public flag pole, it sounds like the self evident thing to do for the flag of the nation you're standing in to sit in the high position. If I were at a Mexican Hacienda or running a little business on the southern side of the border, I'd absolutely put the Mexican one above the American one (If I were in a place where having both showing wouldn't just get me shot down there). Putting the American one above the Mexican one....if I were in Mexico would be blatantly showing America to be above Mexico on it's own soil for my attitude.

The same as this was taken to be on American soil by a man who served our nation under that very flag.

Heck, we still have Flag Day once a year. I see it's in June tho. Perhaps moving it to a prominent school year week would be more appropriate for covering a few paragraphs on these little things. After all, in a nation as young as America for a lack of culture and deep history to cherish, symbols for ideals are what we have instead in some ways.

Nyiah
What a jerk. I don't care what any proper "etiquette" is for flags being flown, if I had flags of multiple countries and wanted to string 'em up, I'd do it alphabetically top to bottom because I'm OCD like that. If that blowhard had touched mine, I'd have put him in the hospital for destruction of MY property. And sent him the bill to pay for new ones.

No you wouldnt.

You would end up in jail, [snip]

reply to post by crazyewok

I'd agree with that. The only point I'd question is it looks like there was no trespass as he took the flag down from a public sidewalk, from what I can see.

reply to post by csulli456


Let a vet speak on this, I respect the flag and of course took the honor to volunteer to serve , however, yes it was wrong for the Mexican flag to be flown over it according to existing law, but at that point I disagree with a lot being said especially to those anti human patriots who only see history their way and probably have a nice sanitized view of how this became our country, yes this is our country right now but honestly it was stolen from the human beings, the people who were already here, for possibly thousands of years who Columbus abused, and subsequently the Europeans who later became Americans also mistreated and abused.

The native americans and whether you realize it or not, like it or not, they are linked to South America, so in the eyes of some, we would be equivalent to what was portrayed here, flying our flag over another country or land illegally under the rightful owners existing laws.

We would in essence be illegally squatting or assigning ownership to something that technically belonged to someone else, again I am a vet but lets deal with some reality of the matter, the rightful owners of this land were murdered, duped and victims of genocide that really never honestly had their day in court or a world court.

The U.S. used the European Law of discovery as title to lay claim to land, when actually there were people (Indians already occupying the land) how could this European law be used ? and friends it is at the core of most of the land grabs that took place in our history.

Some things to search on and research, to back my claims that a lot of people only see what they want when they see the flag flying but there are always two sides to every story.

Supreme court case
The Rule of Law - Johnson vs. McIntosh


The Seminole Wars

Indian Removal Act of 1830

15,000 Cherokees were tricked and lost their land after signing a removal treaty in 1833 and when they protested the Supreme court quickly denied it in 1838, then sent in 7, 000 troops to remove them from the land with bayonets fixed, and the remaining Indians were not even allowed to gather any of their belongings and many died from exposure.

reply to post by jimmyx

...maybe it was a deliberate act, and not an ignorant one.

Maybe

I can question your thinking as well

Maybe it was to get more Mexicans into their establishment - though, I'm guessing that wasn't really necessary

Maybe, they did it on purpose - to give all of America the middle finger

So, an angry man with a big knife and a chip on his shoulder decides to show them what for...Do we all get to decide how and when we handle things we don't like?

What they did initially, and the reason they decided to do it doesn't matter - this is not how we deal with problems in the country I know and love

Or, at least - it didn't used to be

nwtrucker
reply to post by crazyewok

 

I'd agree with that. The only point I'd question is it looks like there was no trespass as he took the flag down from a public sidewalk, from what I can see.

I'm not cued up on what constitutes public /private land in USA. So going on the UK here that if the flag was on the ground of the home owner it was private property.

But if the laws different in that state and it was public property then fair enough he had right to act.

To sum it up if it was public property I see no issue in what the vet did.

If it was private property I think the vet crossed a big line.

jimmyx

Spiramirabilis

jimmyx
reply to post by Spiramirabilis

 

I never said it was honorable or civilized....there was a deliberate action, and a deliberate response. a provocative act was met with an emotional one. funny how you don't condemn the flying of the Mexican flag over the American flag up on a flagpole for all to see....apparently to you, that is honorable and civilized.

You want to call my patriotism into question? Just so your point seems more relevant?

Shame on you

I'm calling your reasoning into question. why do you assume that however flew those flags positioned like that, was not trying to gain favor with his Mexican clientele?...maybe it was a deliberate act, and not an ignorant one.

Jimmy,

It was intentional. The guy was warned many times.

Millions of illegals have invaded So. California. Some claim we stole this land.

They are flying Mexican Flags at four Los Angeles High Schools.

Yesterday a District court ruled kids may not wear American Flags on their T-Shirts.

It might offend the Mexican kids on Cinco de Mayo (Mexican Independence Day).

I understand they are just keeping peace at School.

There are definitely tensions here in So. Cal. (Although this video is old).

Many Of us have had Enough.

reply to post by whyamIhere


The U.S. flag design is influenced by the family coat of arms of George Washington's English ancestors.
I thought Americans were happy to cut all ties with England, so why are they getting so upset about a flag based on English nobility ?

reply to post by alldaylong


Right, they actually used English Law as the basis for justifying many of their actions also, so I see your point ! something to think about.

reply to post by whyamIhere

It was intentional. The guy was warned many times.

If he broke a federal law - let the feds charge him and take him to court

reply to post by crazyewok


There is nothing like "public property" in the context you'd mean to make what the Vet did here legal. (At least as I've ever heard of it) It's not legal.

It's a petty crime worthy of a citation or summons, depending on how local areas handle that stuff, but I'd never say what he did was legally justified.

It's morally justified though...and to be given a citation for doing that, myself? I'd buy a beautiful wood frame and hang it on my office wall here. It would look great next to some other less controversial awards, but I'd still call it my entry fee for a distinct civil award.

That's the risk one takes in a free nation when choosing highly objectionable free expression. Another citizen may choose to accept whatever the consequences are for taking serious exception to it.

alldaylong
reply to post by whyamIhere

 

The U.S. flag design is influenced by the family coat of arms of George Washington's English ancestors.
I thought Americans were happy to cut all ties with England, so why are they getting so upset about a flag based on English nobility ?

I really don't expect everyone to understand some Americans love for the Flag.

I grew up every morning and put my hand on my heart and pledged allegence.

It probably looks pretty silly if you are not an American. I will give you that.

However, when you have lost loved ones that were fighting for that flag.

It takes on more signifigance.

reply to post by Logarock

You ought to be glad the Nazi flag isn't flying over your country there pal.

Zzzzzzzz........
Is this really the best you can come up with?

Didn't realise this was the topic under discussion, sure we'll be able to discuss this in one of the numerous threads on that subject, yet again - and yet again everything that statement implies will be thoroughly and utterly debunked and shown to be one of the biggest pieces of misinformed and ignorant nonsense ever posted on ATS.

Isn't it illegal to fly this....

Think there might be something wrong with the pictures you tried to post.

Could make a guess and suggest that you intended to show a nations flag flying above either The Union flag or The St George's Cross.

If that's so then to be honest I don't know if its illegal or not.

Personally I'd try and determine the persons reasoning etc and politely explain that they may be causing offence, either deliberately or not.

Its not hard really is it?

reply to post by jimmyx

I don't think whoever put up in those flags in that order, are that stupid.

But that is based on the assumption that every country's laws and traditions are exactly the same as yours - but they aren't.

Surely a polite enquiry as to the persons intentions would have been more appropriate?

......plus, the fact that the Mexican didn't do anything to stop him, and kept his mouth shut, is evidence that he knew the reason himself

That's your take on things - to me, and many others, it seems as if 'the Mexican' is somewhat bewildered and baffled as to why the man is cutting the flags down.
If I'd flown the flags in that order deliberately to cause offence I would have made more of a scene of it and at least remonstrated with 'the American'.

Anyone who believes he was justified in trespassing and destroying another person's property is exactly the type of retard we have too many of in this country.

Read the constitution, get over your military service you served when you were too ignorant to know any better.

I meet these old VFW types and so on all the time, get over your mistakes you made when you were young and move on with your lives.

Getting upset over a piece of cloth fluttering in the wind, regardless of what it symbolizes is just plain stupid.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


Hmm I just think personally taking the law into ones own hands and breaking the law yourself in the process is a dangerous path.

The situation could have been handled better I think.

Just my personal opinion. At the end of the day no one died or got hurt so its not a major incident.

whyamIhere
I really don't expect everyone to understand some Americans love for the Flag.

I grew up every morning and put my hand on my heart and pledged allegence.

It probably looks pretty silly if you are not an American. I will give you that.

However, when you have lost loved ones that were fighting for that flag.

It takes on more signifigance.

That is understandable man. However THAT America doesn't exist anymore. It's Corporate America now. Don't get bent. I'm as sad to see Canada go down the same path. The Maple Leaf doesn't mean what it used to either. This is sort of like "losing ones soul so save the body damn it".

MyHappyDogShiner
Anyone who believes he was justified in trespassing and destroying another person's property is exactly the type of retard we have too many of in this country.

Read the constitution, get over your military service you served when you were too ignorant to know any better.

I meet these old VFW types and so on all the time, get over your mistakes you made when you were young and move on with your lives.

Getting upset over a piece of cloth fluttering in the wind, regardless of what it symbolizes is just plain stupid.

Absolutely spot on!!

Logarock

You ought to be glad the Nazi flag isn't flying over your country there pal.

This old BS?


Sorry the Brits held off NAZI Germany before you guys entered the war. It France that was the one that surrendered. We held of the Germans with British planes, read up on the battle of Britain. It was close but we did a good job at defending ourselfs.


As for going from the defensive to the offensive and wining the war that was a TEAM effort from USA/UK/Russia and members of the British commonwealth. So dont you dare ever forget that.

reply to post by whyamIhere


I'm left of center, but I agree with you on this one. this just isn't right. up here in Stockton, we don't have that, even though we have a large plurality of Latinos. I wasn't aware that they were actually flying Mexican flags and not the American flag in public schools down there. do you have any pics of that?

reply to post by crazyewok


I think there is a huge difference between the level of civil disobedience and infraction vs. criminal action. The 'actual damages' here, as I understand it, amount to a couple zip ties and a real bad dose of public relations for the business.

Would the vet have been justified in punching the owner of the business in the nose? Absolutely and positively not. There, it's not expressing a counter-point while accepting infractions with citations....it's crossed into crime and suppression of the business's speech by violence.

Kinda fuzzy on all that, but those are the breaks for a free nation. Things are always going to have fuzzy edges. That's where freedom vs. authoritarianism lay, IMO.