“Budapest Memorandum” Treaty Signed In 1994 May Commit U.S., Britain To Defend Ukraine

cavtrooper7
I would like you to apologize Marine. We have used the SAS for wet work and specialized missions for YEARS. They have the most experience in these tasks. Our allies ARE neccessary for us to perform these ignorant police missions.If it was only to fight we really wouldn't need them,but when you occupy ,we aren't too good at that.Killing .destroying capturing ,that's what we do better than everyone else. It's fast and cold when we have a clear objective.

But I will say I am very thankful for your loyalty to my country's leaders,they appear to have been rogue for sometime and cannot be trusted.
But that doesn't mean your sacrifices mean nothing to me.

--
Ahem brother, rgr that.

Arnie123
NullVoid
reply to post by Arnie123

 

IMHO I don't think this will lead to WW3, but the end result will lead to deaths, regardless.

Yes, I agree this will not go to WW3, the participants are too little for such big war.
I wonder how long will this take place, I mean the active war, the passive war of course will be for decades. I think the fastest would be 2-3 months and the longest might be 2 years before the conflict resolved.

Dont you feel its like Yugoslav countries once again ?

reply to post by ketsuko


Now that's a scary thought... If we keep abandoning these countries in their times of need, one day when we might need help with some issue, the help may not be there...

i remember when hurricane katrina came into the gulf states and new orleans, other countries actually offered assistance, i thought that was pretty cool.

reply to post by NullVoid


this is the problem, russia is there with armed soldiers what happens if someone engages them or they have to respond to some sort of attack. by being there they add to the probability that something will happen...

what if some people in ukraine take it upon themselves to go wolverine, and it sets off a chain reaction of engagements?

there are so many unknowns in this, and there are already volatile situations happening all throughout ukraine.

not to mention that ukraine is a sovereign nation, who has had airports and coastal ports taken over by an army from another country.

reply to post by NullVoid

--
I like to think our slavic counterparts are just as crazy as we are, we are not dealing with afghans or iraqis....or any other motivated religious devote for that matter, but cold as ice folks who can drink toe to toe and shoot just as well.
Not gonna BS you, its gonna be like fighting my neighbors...
Economics aside, our advantaged being we are a military that has been in active combat rotations for 10 plus years in asymetric warfare, that is A LOT of experience, so tough cookie to crumble.
hopefully its all posturing, hopefully....

To all those beating the war drum and demanding NATO go in.

Who do you expect to go fight and die in this new great war?

When my "country" comes knocking for meat for there grinder il be telling them to shove it.

I wont be fighting for a treaty signed when I was 5. Nor will i fight and die for the fools in goverment,

You will only get me on the front lines if :
1) obama and david camroon are there with a rifle on the front lines with me,
2) Russians have invaded france and knocking on the uk door

reply to post by crazyewok


No ones asking you to serve on the front line, all anyone is actually stating is that we have a commitment to the Ukraine, and we should supply them some kind of help.

The people who chose to sign the Treaty can go fight the war themselves.

No more dead young men and women for the foolish ideas of rich old men!

reply to post by Elliot


So you are saying we should ignore a treaty signed by our previous leaders, simply because it doesn't suit us to keep our word?

Well the UK I think will stand on the sidelines and help through the political means of the UN. The UK cannot afford to put boots on the ground in Ukraine if the Ukrainian interim government ask for the help of our military. Plus the UK is currently focusing on the Scottish Independence the vote to take place this September, so Scotland could break away from the UK.

This Budapest Memorandum, does it state that we do have to protect Ukraine from further provocations from Russia.

As I see it from reading up Crimea is a Autonomous Republic (in Ukraine) so an invasion of Russian troops is in actual fact an 'Act of War' it's like Northern Ireland (UK) deciding to put troop in the Republic of Ireland that would cause huge conflict.

Crimea is part of Ukraine and Ukraine reserves the right to protect it's lands from foreign invasion.

Russia has really two basic options;

Engage or Retreat.

la2
reply to post by crazyewok

 

No ones asking you to serve on the front line, all anyone is actually stating is that we have a commitment to the Ukraine, and we should supply them some kind of help.

That the thing with me.

I wont cry for war and military intervention unless I am willing to go in myself.

To me only a coward asks for war and expects another man to do the fighting for them.


Im anti war and I wont fight therefore I dont expect troops to be deployed in my name. Ok chances are they may go, but I would be a hypocrite to cheer them on why I say out.

Elliot
The people who chose to sign the Treaty can go fight the war themselves.

No more dead young men and women for the foolish ideas of rich old men!

EXACTLY!

la2
reply to post by Elliot

 

So you are saying we should ignore a treaty signed by our previous leaders, simply because it doesn't suit us to keep our word?

No what he is saying is our dear leaders who tied up to that treaty should be the first on the front lines!

Those that intiate war should be the first to fight.

300 year ago the countrys leaders wouldnt have dreamed of sending others to do there dirty work while they stay at home. It was standard practice for the Kings and his lords to be right there on the front lines with his men!

reply to post by crazyewok


I don't think anyone is asking for war, just stating that we should fulfill our international obligations, as set out in the treaties we have signed, it's the international law equivalent of breach of contract if you will, and it sends out a terrible message to our allies that we will only support them when it suits our own agenda.

This is not conflict for the sake of it, it's supporting a nation we promised to support, Ukraine held up their end of the treaty, isn't it only fair we do the same?

la2
it's supporting a nation we promised to support, Ukraine held up their end of the treaty, isn't it only fair we do the same?

"I" "ME" never agreed to support anyone or signed any treaty. I was 5 years old when the treaty was signed.

"I" had no say.


So it not MY responsibility. Its the responsibility of those that wrote it in and those that voted for the goverment at the time. NOT ME. I do not take responsibility for my goverments actions when I wasnt even old enough to vote!

reply to post by crazyewok


That's a very naive view, laws were created before you were born, you still have to abide by them regardless. It's poor to back out of a promise we made, particularly when the whole point of the treaty was to remove nuclear weapons from Ukraine, the treaty has benefited Europe, now it's our turn to keep our end of the bargain.

We have a similar treaty with Belgium and The Netherlands, the Treaty of London was signed in 1839, it was the reason we entered WWI, if the treaty was breached again would you have the same view toward ignoring it?

reply to post by crazyewok


Get a grip wok

This isnt about you, It's about the Ukrainians.

la2
reply to post by crazyewok

 

That's a very naive view, laws were created before you were born, you still have to abide by them regardless. It's poor to back out of a promise we made, particularly when the whole point of the treaty was to remove nuclear weapons from Ukraine, the treaty has benefited Europe, now it's our turn to keep our end of the bargain.

We have a similar treaty with Belgium and The Netherlands, the Treaty of London was signed in 1839, it was the reason we entered WWI, if the treaty was breached again would you have the same view toward ignoring it?

Fine if war breaks out and theres a call up you go.

I wont stop you.

Im staying at home.

Il only fight if David Camroon and his croonys are right there next to me on thr front lines.......Other than that im not throwing my life away for the political elites games. My lifes worth more than that.....

ufoorbhunter
Imagine if it was looking like Chinese and Russian troops were going to turn Scotland into one of their bases, England would forget about bits of paper and take Scotland out. Chinese and Russian troops on Englands border? would London accept that?

Yes England would, no navy to speak of, no airforce to speak of, army overseas, Russia and China could literally surround England, make the Isle-of-white and Manx their bases, a Lenin class cruiser moored at the house's of parliament, or just two 20 megaton nukes would sink that little island. or sink all the food ships that dock every year in the north, grain, frozen meat. Block the channel tunnel, no fresh fruit or vegetables. Something like 40 million tons of food are imported into the UK each year........

SLAYER69


This isnt about you, It's about the Ukrainians.

Yeah and they can fight there own battles.

crazyewok

Yeah and they can fight there own battles.

Would there be ANY potential battles had Russia stayed on it's side of the border?