“Budapest Memorandum” Treaty Signed In 1994 May Commit U.S., Britain To Defend Ukraine

reply to post by snypwsd

FU> Do you not realize just how stupid you sound for saying such a load of crap to a stranger? Just to keep this on topic, Regardless of treaties, Obama will not retaliate in any meaningful way. If that make me stupid for thinking that than think what you will.

reply to post by jazz10


to who and why ?

reply to post by ketsuko


When was the last time anyone really helped US we pretty much give the world alot of our money and have other people do stuff with us cause we say so, I don't recall the United States getting help from anyone.

Brotherman
reply to post by ketsuko

 

When was the last time anyone really helped US we pretty much give the world alot of our money and have other people do stuff with us cause we say so, I don't recall the United States getting help from anyone.

"Help" comes in many forms.
The US gets diplomatic help behind the scenes that you and i never hear about.
The US also gets help from British SAS and SBS Special Forces. Again we never hear about it
Just because things don't happen in clear view, it doesn't mean that they are not happening.

All the others would have gone into war threat mode,but not barry.

reply to post by Silcone Synapse


I must admit I am having a hard time understanding how making threats to the Russians is going to solve anything. Even worse, it would seem that too many Americans are more than happy to expect Obama to send in the troops which could have potentially disasterous results for all of us. This isn't a video game...real people are going to die.

Have the last 12 years of un-ending wars not taught you people anything? You've bankrupted your country and acheived nothing. Nobody in any of the countries you have invaded are any better off than they were before you invaded them....in fact...the conditions for the innocent people that live in these countries are horrific.

I'm sick of a bunch of armchair warriors calling for Obama to go Team America on any country that does anything the US Government doesn't like. You are not the world police. Your interference is not wanted or needed. I suggest you concentrate on fixing the very real mess in your own country and leave Ukranians to deal with the Russians as they see fit.

I don't recall the United States getting help from anyone.

reply to post by Brotherman


Then you clearly haven't been paying attention. Canada, Great Britain, France, Germany..ect have given you a great deal of help...and have paid for it with their lives. So much for gratitude eh?

reply to post by deadcalm


I don't think you understand what I am trying to say, I don't define that as "help" the US didn't really need help for the other wars, the "hired help" was exactly that, it wasn't necessary in terms of forces, it was necessary in affirming legitimacy.

reply to post by snypwsd


The problem is that Obama has sent out all indications that he wants to belong to a whole new global fraternity of nations and the US's traditional allies aren't part of it.

I don't define that as "help"

reply to post by Brotherman


Then what would you define it as? I'm so glad that we sent our soldiers over to Afghanistan to die for an American cause that wasn't our own. (extreme sarcasm). Since you don't need us we'll stay at home next time.

the "hired help" was exactly that

"Hired Help"....REALLY?? I have never heard such a condescending comment in my life....we didn't get paid to go help you...nor did any of the other allies that spent the blood of their young people to help you....because help they did...whether you call it that or not. My brother's best friend lost both his legs in an IED attack "not helping" the US in Afghanistan.

What a disgusting attitude toward your allies....no wonder you treat your own wounded soldiers like garbage.

Saturday, Ukraine asked the United States and other key members of the U.N. Security Council to help safeguard its territorial integrity.

Ukraine Ambassador:

... said that Russia's military aggression had violated a 1994 agreement on safeguarding Ukraine's territorial integrity and called on the other four permanent U.N. Security Council members to use their diplomatic powers to help his country.

"Now what we are doing is we are addressing for other guarantors (of Ukraine's sovereignty) - the United States, the United Kingdom, France, and China - to perform their guarantees," Sergeyev said.

Link

I know this is probably the wrong thread or that it needs a thread all on its own...

But doesn't anyone else find it curious that this treaty has been 'found' and brought to light now that Russia's parliament has give Putin the green light to occupy Ukraine; Considering the fact that in just days, the U.S will either have to extend it's debt limit or declare Bankruptcy?

Hasn't the means of war always been a way of staving off debt?

I find the timing very suspect.

reply to post by Cabin


I say good.. If Russia wants a battle, they will get one... Ukraine has done nothing wrong, they are doing what they believe is best for them and if Russia doesn't like it they can pound salt, or attack, but understand it's coming right back at you and Russia CAN NOT hold its own against the US and definitely not NATO either... This will be Russia's biggest mistake to date...

This Ukraine business could be a smoking gun for something else....like anybody here bothered to look up what's happening in Venezuela atm? I can't find a single thread on here about it......lot more to be gained if that country goes pear shaped......
Rainbows
Jane

I think everyone makes good points here.

Firstly the Budapest Memorandum does state that the UK and US will serve as guarantors of Ukraines territorial boarders, but these treaties are unfortunately vague. Secondly I don't think either London or Washington is currently strong enough to go head to head with the Russians, look at what happened over Syria, two of the most influential governments in the world told there leaders NO, we don't have the stomach for war, I said all along that this was a huge mistake.

It sent out the message to the world that we are not interested.

Finally, I agree this could become very very bad, and it could happen at such a fast rate that we might end up with a huge conflict blowing up before either side has had an opportunity to back down. Don't forget, we are no longer talking about a country that can not defend itself, Russia is a nuclear power, huge military, and very powerful allies ( notice Iran and China are particularly quiet right now), a US lead intervention to confront Russia may cause China to chose sides, something that could damage everyone economically.

It's quite shocking the other former soviet states have not shown Ukraine support, or is it simply the fact they know better?

Here we have an example of a country who willingly gave up its nukes in exchange that their borders would be respected and would receive aid in the event of a conflict, and now one of the signers of that agreement is invading them and the other two do nothing. Any country who feels threatened and seeking nukes will hear the US and other countries' assurances as just empty words that will not be honored. I don't blame them. This is the entire credibility of the US and UN on the line. If Russia goes forward with this and everyone stands by, there is no legitimacy anymore. UN becomes League of nations and slides to irrelevance as Russia becomes emboldened. There will be no moral authority anymore.

Saw this comment on reddit, through it fit the situation very well.

ketsuko
reply to post by Cabin

 

What? You mean we could get pulled into a war and it wouldn't be Bush's fault?!

This would stink, but a treaty is a treaty and if we singed it, we should honor it otherwise we don't deserve to expect anyone to ever help us anywhere ever again.

Hope your the first to sign up and go then.....

This is just "deja vu" all over again.

Whoops, another country that didn't want to do what it was told by "the usual suspects" collapses. Another elected government kicked into the street by . . . . who?

Only this time it is too close to Russian strategic interests. Surprise, surprise, say hello to the rebadged "Red Army".

reply to post by ipsedixit


by who indeed...just ask your avatar....
just who are you hiding behind those smiley faces Ip?

couild those be ...bankers on parade Mr?

reply to post by crazyewok


The last time we ignored this kind of thing was 1938, that's why we should help Ukraine, how can we be civilized nations when our word means nothing?

Danbones
reply to post by ipsedixit

 

by who indeed...just ask your avatar....
just who are you hiding behind those smiley faces Ip?

Changing my name to "oopsydixit".