Russia declares war on Ukraine. Live updates from inside Ukraine

a reply to: Xcathdra

That´s nice to see! Thanks for posting it! I starred your post.

I don´t say that all pro-Kiev Ukrainians are fascistoid monsters. I myself know some (not many) pro-Kiev Ukrainians personally. It´s nice to see that at least in this occasion there were some humans with compassion present.

What I DO say is that there ARE monsters within the pro-Kiev group (especially in the Right Sector), and that the government in Kiev isn´t doing enough to stop them! By contrast, they are even pushing them to go on with their "mission".

As far as I have understood so far about the happenings in Odessa, many of the really bad Pravyi Sektor guys were inside the building after the resistance of the anti-Kiev people was broken. There they apparently went on a rampage...(((

a reply to: Xcathdra

Good find - nice to see it isn't as cut and dry as the Russians would have you believe.

It's also good seeing humans helping fellow humans...

Remember the news about the jews in Odessa getting ready to leave the city because they feared the fascists ?
Apparently, it was just another example of objective and unbiased Russian media reports:

Stop Fake

May 5, 2014 website The Jerusalem Post reported that the Jewish community of Odesa is about to evacuate from the city. The author of the article refers to several unnamed leaders of local community.

However, the press secretary of Odesa Jewish community Boleslav (Ber-Shmuel) Kapulkin refuted this information.

“On account of appearance of the information about evacuation, intended by Odesa Jewish community, I inform that neither any immediate evacuation, mentioned in these reports, is on the way nor it is being planned. Odesans (including Jews) are shocked by the tragedy on Kulikovo Field, but they do not feel any direct danger for the Jewish community, so there are no buses with opened doors and sputtering engines”, wrote Kapulkin on his page in LiveJournal.

Also this page, stopfake.org, is actively dismantling Russian propaganda for quite some time now, first time I saw one of their articles was during the Crimea events:
StopFake

a reply to: stumason

I think it´s true that there is much propaganda by the Russian side, but in my opinion there is at least the same amount of Western/Kiev propaganda! We have to be very careful about what we believe! In my case, I don´t blindly trust ANY news outlet. They all have their agenda! The truth is somewhere inbetween.

I prefer statements by "real" people! Be it in interviews on the street, or by people I know personally. In many interviews about the Odessa event you can see real horror that can not be faked. Many pictures/videos speak for themselves. As do the horrible screams of that woman being killed in the building, that still linger in my head...((( Of course, you could argue now that the pictures/videos were faked, but in some cases it´s just too convincing and too hard to fake. In my opinion.

An interesting development...

NATO Is Ready for Russia Tactics, Estonia Minister Says

NATO is prepared for non-conventional warfare used by Russia to annex Crimea, Estonian Defense Minister Sven Mikser said.

The North Atlantic Treaty Organization’s 1949 founding treaty “can be effectively used to counter new threats” and doesn’t need to be revised, Mikser said in an interview yesterday in the Estonian capital, Tallinn. The former Soviet republic, which shares a border with Russia and has a Russian minority, has “full confidence” in the accord’s article that members consider an attack on one of them an attack on all.

Click link for article.

a reply to: Xcathdra

Whilst I and many of my contemporaries certainly agree with the premise we should defend our NATO allies, I do fear that the wishy-woshy posh boys in Government in the UK, coupled with rather sever defence reductions might make it not so.

On the other hand, I am also hoping that this recent rise in Russian belligerence might effect an about turn on the defence cuts - the UK is due a new SDR next year...

Russia pays high scientific price over Ukraine
7 May 2014Eugene Gerden


Brookhaven is one of a number of US Department of Energy labs where Russian scientists will no longer be welcome © DOE
The annexation of the Crimean peninsula by Russia and the subsequent tensions over Ukraine has seen the US Department of Energy (DOE) impose a ban on scientists from Russia working in its laboratories, which include some of the largest physics and chemical centres in the world.
A letter from the DOE was recently sent to a number of well-known Russian physicists, chemists and mathematicians, who conduct some of their research in DOE labs such as Brookhaven National Laboratory, explaining that they will be banned from entering the US. Simultaneously, the US government has banned DOE scientists from visiting Russia. An exception will only be made if the visit deals with issues affecting nuclear security, weapons of mass destruction or ‘national interests at the highest level’.

www.rsc.org...

Up SBU taped another conversation with the separatists and Moscow.

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twitter.com...

“We are calling for southeast Ukraine representatives, supporters of federalization of the country, to postpone the May 11 referendum to create the necessary conditions for dialogue,” Putin said at a press conference with OSCE Chairperson-in-Office and Swiss President Didier Burkhalter in Moscow.

rt.com...
??err??

What would these perfect conditions be?

originally posted by: MessageforAll

“We are calling for southeast Ukraine representatives, supporters of federalization of the country, to postpone the May 11 referendum to create the necessary conditions for dialogue,” Putin said at a press conference with OSCE Chairperson-in-Office and Swiss President Didier Burkhalter in Moscow.

rt.com...
??err??

What would these perfect conditions be?

Probably has alot to do with the SBU release i just posted. There talking about faking the election results by just filling in the ballots. Any credibility for an election by the separatists at this point is useless. Not to mention in the same conversation they mention the people not helping and russia needs to send troops.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

originally posted by: cm23
a reply to: stumason

I think it´s true that there is much propaganda by the Russian side, but in my opinion there is at least the same amount of Western/Kiev propaganda! We have to be very careful about what we believe! In my case, I don´t blindly trust ANY news outlet. They all have their agenda! The truth is somewhere inbetween.

Well said! You sound like a neutral and not a fan of either side.

And once again Putin changes his mind its almost daily im beginning to understand why him and lavrov never seen to be on the same page.

"I want to emphasize that the planned presidential elections in Kiev - in itself a step in the right direction, but they did not decide if all citizens of Ukraine will not understand how their rights will be guaranteed after these presidential elections", - stated in the press service of the Kremlin.

news.liga.net...

news.sky.com...

President Vladimir Putin has said that Russia has withdrawn its forces from its border with east Ukraine, Reuters reports.

Mr Putin also called on separatists in east Ukraine to postpone a referendum on independence for the mostly Russian-speaking region.

a reply to: dragonridr

In the Ukraine constitution - when their is no President the Parliament is restricted when it comes to discussing / passing certain types of legislation.

NATO have released a statement in the past 20 minutes or so stating they have not seen any indication that Vladimir Putin has pulled his troops back from the border with Ukraine. I'm getting déjà vu - anyone else? I did note a more positive tone in Putin's statement earlier but in my opinion he's either lying or those sanctions are really starting to bite.

a reply to: MessageforAll

Hmmm.. Interesting...
My theory is that the separatists are going to go on with the "referendum", further showing the world that Putin has "lost control" over them...

Crisis averted Russian troops pulling back from the border. Ukraine can start votes to elect a president in soon.

Please knock of this WWIII hype, yes we was close to a cold war scenario but there will be NO WW3 out of this.

Nor do I want to see WWIII in my lifetime.

--Signing off--

WOW. I am shocked. Putin just made a really big move, meddling in the Ukraine or not if Putin takes the steps to de-escalate this now he deserves some credit. At this point I thought nobody was backing down.

NATO is going be to absolutely furious if Putin backs down lmao xD

On another note, what do you all figure is going to happen when the protestors and opposition militimilitias especially get this news of a Russian pullback??? I for one do not see them reacting well.

a reply to: cm23

I just want to say it is so great to se unbiased people in here! I really enjoyed reading your takes on the situation.

According to the Ukrainian Border Guard Service the Russian troops are still deployed and continue maneuvers:

podrobnosti.ua...

State Border Guard Service does not confirm the words of Putin to withdraw troops
May 7, 2014 | 17:42

Ukrainian border guards still fix maneuvering near the state border of the Russian troops and equipment , say in the State Border Service .

" We continue to fix maneuvering Russian military aviation , engineering, military movements near the Ukrainian border ," - said the press service of the border agency .

Earlier on Wednesday, Russian President Vladimir Putin said after meeting with President of the Swiss Presidency of the OSCE Didier Burkhalter said that Russia withdrew from the Ukrainian border in place permanent exercises.