Russia declares war on Ukraine. Live updates from inside Ukraine

a reply to: DutchBigBoy

Ill try this again -

NATO members retain their own military. They have a choice if they will host military units from other member nations on their soil. If they do the base will be designated for it and it usually means a permanent presence of NATO members.

Poland / the Baltic States are members of NATO. They do NOT have a permanent presence of NATO forces in their country with the exception of the Baltic nations, and even then it is aircraft since those nations do not have an air force of their own.

NATO had been petitioned some time back (years) by Poland to have NATO forces deployed on a permanent basis. NATO has always declined that request because of Russia's feeling towards it.

With Putins latest action air assets have been increased in the Baltics and Poland and there are currently ongoing NATO exercises involving 4-6k troops from 13 NATO members.

There is now discussion at NATO about a possible permanent NATO presence in those countries but no decisions has been made.

Again - Does every member nation of the UN have a UN headquarters in their country. NO
Of all the NATO members, not all of them have NATO bases on their territory.

You guys can show maps all day long of NATO / NATO partner nations, but it does not equivocate into NATO bases.

originally posted by: Xcathdra
NATO members retain their own military.

Do people think NATO has it's own, seperate Forces? Jeebus H Krishna... That's almost as stupid as those who think the UN has it's forces (usually the one's fearful of "UN Forces" taking over America)

originally posted by: stumason

originally posted by: Xcathdra
NATO members retain their own military.

Do people think NATO has it's own, seperate Forces? Jeebus H Krishna... That's almost as stupid as those who think the UN has it's forces (usually the one's fearful of "UN Forces" taking over America)

There is a LOT of misinformation being passed around. The whole NATO map harkens back to the day of Iran and the map showing all of the fake bases around it.

Even after posting the NATO website information it was dismissed and ignored because it was NATO.

ETA - I just realized we both answered the last question - lol sorry bout that.
Yes people have been demanding posts / info / links be removed so only one side of the issue can be discussed. For some reason people think the censorship by Russia on her own people extend to everyone else as well.

originally posted by: Xcathdra

Defence Ministry UA ‏@DefenceUA · 2m
Soldiers who carry out the ATO do everything to avoid civilian casualties
www.facebook.com... …
|DefenceUA pic.twitter.com/zs00TI9ky1

Defence Ministry UA ‏@DefenceUA · 2m
Soldiers who carry out the ATO do everything to avoid civilian casualties
www.facebook.com... …
|DefenceUA pic.twitter.com/zs00TI9ky1

Oh, that´s why they created the massacre in Odessa, where even women (even a pregnant woman) and children were burnt to death, strangled and killed otherwise!! Unfortunately I saw the videos about the event yesterday - I couldn´t sleep last night! The screams of the woman being killed (and the Nazi thug that waved the Ukrainian flag out of the window afterwards) haunt me! And I hope they also haunt the guys who did this. But I fear they are only blind monsters without any sort of compassion.

If I believe what the German TV crew found out about the Maidan shootings (and I have every reason to trust the evidence they presented), this was the second massacre by the guys from the Right Sector. I´m so sick of it!!!

And ALL the Ukrainians I know don´t want to be called "pro-Russian" or "separists"! They are "anti-Kiev" Ukrainians, nothing more, nothing less. (of course, not all of the Ukrainians I know are anti-Kiev, but most of them. But the ones who are, are NO separists. They want a unified Ukraine, but not with this government and the growing influence of Pravyi Sektor! The Ukrainians I know are also afraid of the newly formed National Guard, which consists to a great part of Right Sektor fighters).

And the West is watching as a genocide is unfolding...

a reply to: cm23

Since ice never seen you post in this thread I will assume your not familiar with posting.

The posts from Twitter are the updates coming in from the various sources all across the spectrum. Members are free to read and make their own determination on them. When I post them without comment its to get them out there. When I post with comment I will explain why.

In that case the info is posted so people can read and decide for themselves about the info and how reliable / believable it is.


As for your last comment - Russian has military units in country. Why cant they tell their people to stop the genocide and head back to Russian soil?

a reply to: stumason




You know stu,there is media online here that proves Russia didn't invade and that the west organised this coup and turned a blind eye to the right wing groups firing sniper rifles on the police and their own people

You won't read it,as you don't want too

And the posts in this thread have been garbage with even a photo or Putin as a clown,is that in context keeping with the thread title (that's also wrong)

Suck it up,charming response whipper snapper

a reply to: Xcathdra

I have posted several times on this thread. Apparently you didn´t read them, because I report about views of Ukrainian citizens that don´t fit into your point of view.

My comment was not directed at you personally, but regarding the twitter post.

originally posted by: cm23
a reply to: Xcathdra

I have posted several times on this thread. Apparently you didn´t read them, because I report about views of Ukrainian citizens that don´t fit into your point of view.

My comment was not directed at you personally, but regarding the twitter post.

Aside from your 2 posts today the remainder are all the way back in the mid 300's and we are currently at 567. So yeah, there is a good chance i've never seen /. read your posts.

ETA - Then my apologies as I thought it was aimed at me for posting it.

To touch on Odessa there has already been a decision made for an independent investigation into it. By independent they mean nations without a horse in the race.

The same holds for the initial violence in Kiev as it was part of the agreement they all signed. I would imagine there are going to wait and see how the elections go and what not to let an elected government make some of those decisions / requests.


As for the comment on my point of view - are you really gonna drag the thread farther of topic because I am not in lock step with other view points? There are times I wish people like you and the others would ask for my point of view instead of just making an ass out of yourself buy just assuming?

You have a keyboard and communication skills - Ask questions. Don't accuse.

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: cm23


As for your last comment - Russian has military units in country. Why cant they tell their people to stop the genocide and head back to Russian soil?

Apparently, you haven´t read what I wrote! Did you see the videos about the event in Odessa?? Did you see the video about the evidence that the Maidan shooting was done by the Right Sector?

If not, watch them!! If yes, tell me, why you think otherwise! Show me evidence of a genocide by Russian troops in the Ukraine!!

a reply to: cm23

and I stated there is going to be an independent investigation into that incident because neither side can give accurate facts. Secondly I can show you a litany of videos that depict something, and when seen from a secondary video it shows something completely different.

Hence the investigation.

The 100 rush to judgment only makes things worse.

But by all means accuse me of not watching vidoes that have been posted and posted and posted over and over over.....

a reply to: Xcathdra

I read you answer too late! You were too fast for me ;-)

Well, I´m a bit impulsive right now, because
1) I have watched the videos about the Odessa event, and I am of the firm opinion that this was a mass murder conducted by the Right Sector, and
2) I have many friends in the Ukraine, and most of them are really very worried! But they are afraid of the Right Sector, not of the Russians.

Kyiv Post ‏@KyivPost · 1m
#Russia pays its price for aggressive policy against @Ukraine http://(link tracking not allowed)/Szf9Jw

Euromaidan PR ‏@EuromaidanPR · 4m
RU alerts the world to "Real Crisis" BBC News - Russia: Azerbaijan's Eurovision snub 'outrageous' www.bbc.com... … |EMPR News

Euromaidan PR ‏@EuromaidanPR · 9m
Proof that "referendum"in #Donetsk on May 11 will be illegal and is supported by #Russia www.youtube.com... … | EMPR Video #Ukraine

originally posted by: cm23
If not, watch them!! If yes, tell me, why you think otherwise! Show me evidence of a genocide by Russian troops in the Ukraine!!

How about you show evidence of "genocide" by Ukrainian "fascists".

Throwing the word around for emotive purposes doesn't make it true. You are aware of what genocide means and entails, surely?

Is there targeted, widespread and indescriminate killings based upon race and/or religion? No.

A couple of dozen die in a fire in Odessa in an incident in which both sides were throwing petrol bombs - a fire was bound to happen. Painting one side as totally innocent, when the "pro-Russians" and "Pro-Kiev" sides both had a barny in the town centre is disingenuous to say the least.

It's also worth pointing out that while the two groups of a few hundred had their punch up, the vast majority of Odessa's citizens (no matter what flavour) went about their lawful business - some eye witnesses were out shopping and watched as the two groups went into each other.

Hardly "genocide".

originally posted by: cm23

I read you answer too late! You were too fast for me ;-)

Well, I´m a bit impulsive right now, because
1) I have watched the videos about the Odessa event, and I am of the firm opinion that this was a mass murder conducted by the Right Sector, and
2) I have many friends in the Ukraine, and most of them are really very worried! But they are afraid of the Right Sector, not of the Russians.

I agree a mass murder took place. What I am not sure about is who did it which is why I would rather see an independent investigation be conducted. Whoever is behind should be held accountable under the law and not mob mentality.

As for friends there I can understand your attachment to what's going on and I sincerely hope things work out and the fighting stops. However, from what im seeing / reading I don't think its going to be anytime soon - sadly.

Either way, all I ask is if you have an issue with something I posted / typed - Don't accuse me - just aks me for clarification or more info to understand.

Its all I ask.

a reply to: cm23

Interesting - you have "many friends in Ukraine", which would indicate you are not. In which case, it begs the question where exactly are you?

William Hague ‏@WilliamJHague · 3m
Met @OSCE leadership in #Ukraine. Doing vital work very professionally in difficult circumstances

euronews ‏@euronews · 9m
Donetsk referendum "contrived and bogus" says Kerry eurone.ws...

Euromaidan PR ‏@EuromaidanPR · 4m
Andriy Riznik,the World Champion,wounded during attack of terrorist in #Donetsk oblast,May5 www.facebook.com... … pic.twitter.com/6ahMSko29c

Ukrainian Updates ‏@Ukroblogger · 5m
300 mercenaries fr #Chechnya?Sent by #Kadyrov,'Hero of #Russia' for killing #Russians? #Russia #Ukraine #Slovyansk pic.twitter.com/3IbGAkf3cS

Euromaidan PR ‏@EuromaidanPR · 1m
Undate on #Ukrainian ATO, May 6, 2014 | EMPR News pic.twitter.com/HTsb9avKh2

Armed separatists seem to have an ever increasing amount of firepower:

bruce springnote ‏@BSpringnote

Ukraine MoD says Fagot anti-tank weapons being set up by separatists at roadblocks pic.twitter.com/r4joyecW4t

Nick de Larrinaga @NickJDWEurope
#Ukraine MoD is reporting that 9K111 Fagot (AT-4 'Spigot') anti-tank #missiles are appearing at pro-Russian checkpoints in East Ukraine.

a reply to: stumason

I don´t know what role it plays where I am right now! Right now I am in Central Europe, some weeks ago I was in the Ukraine. But I don´t see how this is relevant!

And I have my point of view about the fire in Odessa because of the statements of witnesses. And because of the video that shows masked men waving Ukrainian flags out of the windows after the massacre. And because of the videos from the inside where you could see victims with head-shots, or with burned heads (nothing else was burnt). And because of the picture that haunts me most - the pregnant woman that was strangled in her office.

I won´t present evidence here about who is responsible for the shooting at Maidan Nezalezhnosti, that was done several times before. If you didn´t see it, google "ARD Monitor Maidan".

19:33 GMT:
A toxic agent was used in an attack on the Trade Unions House in Odessa on May 2, which saw 46 people dead and another 214 injured, Pyotr Poroshenko, MP and Ukraine presidential candidate, said.

Therefore the tragic events in Odessa may be classified as a terrorist attack, he told Interfax news agency after a closed session of the Ukrainian parliament at which the evidence was presented.