Russia declares war on Ukraine. Live updates from inside Ukraine

doompornjunkie

daaskapital

jhn7537
reply to post by daaskapital

 

How is that a threat of war?? Russia is threatening war, while Ukraine is stating they will defend themselves on their own soil... There is a big difference between what Russia is doing and what Ukraine has done. Can't believe you are defending this view.

Russia is publicly acting under strict conditions, agreed upon between them and Ukraine. Their obvious clandestine activity though, may be considered as a declaration of war. That being said, since they have not been proven to have ties to that activity, then i guess there is nothing which can be done about it.

Ukraine, while defending itself has said that they will go to war if Russia intervened further. Raising the spectre of war against Russia is a threat, even if they are only doing it as a defensive tactic.

I support no one in this incident, as both sides are clearly playing it up.

Should Russian troops ever threat or actually but boots on US soil you can bet damn well I'll be with the masses slinging hypersonic pieces of lead at them. Declared or not. Call me a typical American, or cowboy or whatever you want. You just don't do it! It means all out absolute war.

edit on 2-3-2014 by doompornjunkie because: (no reason given)

I too, would do the same if Russia was doing to my country, what it has done to Ukraine.

On the matter of Ukraine though, Russia has publicly abided by agreements between Ukraine and Russia. That is why no one has done anything to stop Russia yet. I can't comment on the clandestine activities, but if they conducted by Russian operatives, as is expected, then Russia has violated the sovereignty of Ukraine and should be held accountable.

Publicly, Russia has not done much wrong. discretely, probably so.

Russia did not declare war on Ukraine. You can not declare war on the country, which is already covered by the civil war between the Western Ukraine and Eastern Ukraine. Alignment is as follows: at least it is hoped that the West (Western Europe + U.S.) - is the rejection of an independent state in the Crimea. Why is it so infuriates Obama? Because then inevitably strengthen the naval base in Russia Simferopol, and accordingly the U.S. plans to further destabilize the situation in the Middle East through its fleet will undergo a significant change.
The maximum that may be afraid of Western Europe and the U.S., is the declaration of independence throughout the eastern regions of Ukraine headed by the Kharkiv and Donetsk. Then the whole industry and resorts depart or pro-Russian independence, or become part of Russia, and the West will remain impoverished western Ukraine without their production and led by bandits "Bandera".

Nyiah

doompornjunkie
An invasion is a type of war.

I know that, but a lot of people don't see it that way without an officially made & accepted declaration. I'm giving a comparable hypothetical for pondering. The shoe on our foot, if you will.

I feel like it's more or less trying to infuse PC political word games into a already clear situation.
War
Occupation
Invasion
Uninvited armed visitation
All the same

doompornjunkie

thesaneone
reply to post by daaskapital

 

You mean Ukraine is threatening to defend herself from an invading force.

Yes, apparently assembling your own troops on your own soil is declaring war. In the other hand putting your boots on anothers soil isn't war.

If something like whats happening in Ukraine broke out in Bahrain, you think the U.S wouldnt get in to "help" (and to assure their 5th fleet base which is so strategically important in the region) - and its not so far fetched since Bahrain is not considered "stable" either, and most of that instability is actually because of that base, which the U.S doesnt even make plans to relocate, at least not for now.

So... they would "get in to help". That wouldnt make them any different from the Russians... the only difference is, for the U.S, "getting in to help" and "trash the place" is common practice... the U.S has become a very efficient well oiled machine when it comes to trash small countries, so it would be a walk in the park.

But you would say a word because they would be protecting your interests - relocating the 5th fleet would demand even more from the tax payers in a really bad time for the country.

So that's what Russia is doing... "protecting their interests" - they have one of their, if not the most important base there, legally until 2017, so its their right to see Ukraine uphold the contract - one way or another.

dragonridr
This agreement didnt give them the right to station troops in the airport or government buildings in the area, Like it or not thats an occupation and it maybe met with force.Your playing games with semantics. As far as Ukraine declaring war no they didnt they said if you bring Russian troops into our country we will consider this an act of war and will fight. This whole thing can be avoided putin simply puts his toys back in the box and goes home and this is done. By the way you dont need 15000 troops to protect one naval base but of course in your world i guess they do because i gues you figure the Russian military is just so pathetic that 15000 is what the use as security guards right?

Russia has not stationed troops in airports or government buildings. They are 'pro-Russian gunmen'. While those gunmen may be Russian operatives, they have no proven links to the government of Russia right now, meaning that Russia cannot be held accountable for the occupation of the airports and government buildings by pro-Russian gunmen.

Russia may be violating Ukraine's sovereignty discretely, but without evidence, there is nothing which can be done. That is the problem so many of you are finding hard to grasp right now.

www.reuters.com...
news.yahoo.com...

reply to post by Feltrick

For some reason, I can't stop thinking about Hitler "coming to the aid" of ethnic Germans in the Sudetenland prior to all out war. I guess, history does repeat itself.

Seems pretty similar, doesn't it? Also, here's a bit from a wiki about the prelude to the invasion of Poland. (Replace Danzig with Crimea)

en.wikipedia.org...

The Poles feared that their independence would eventually be threatened altogether.[22] To provoke war with Poland in order to gain Lebensraum, Nazis used as a pretext a claim to Free City of Danzig and Polish territory that separated German exclave of East Prussia from the rest of the Reich.[23] The so-called Polish Corridor constituted land long disputed by Poland and Germany, and inhabited by a Polish majority. The Corridor became a part of Poland after the Treaty of Versailles.

Many Germans also wanted the city of Danzig and its environs (together the Free City of Danzig) to be reincorporated into Germany. Danzig was a port city with a German majority.[24] It had been separated from Germany after Versailles and made into a nominally independent Free City of Danzig. Hitler sought to use this as reason for war, reverse these territorial losses, and on many occasions made an appeal to German nationalism, promising to "liberate" the German minority still in the Corridor, as well as Danzig.[25]

daaskapital

dragonridr
This agreement didnt give them the right to station troops in the airport or government buildings in the area, Like it or not thats an occupation and it maybe met with force.Your playing games with semantics. As far as Ukraine declaring war no they didnt they said if you bring Russian troops into our country we will consider this an act of war and will fight. This whole thing can be avoided putin simply puts his toys back in the box and goes home and this is done. By the way you dont need 15000 troops to protect one naval base but of course in your world i guess they do because i gues you figure the Russian military is just so pathetic that 15000 is what the use as security guards right?

Russia has not stationed troops in airports or government buildings. They are 'pro-Russian gunmen'. While those gunmen may be Russian operatives, they have no proven links to the government of Russia right now, meaning that Russia cannot be held accountable for the occupation of the airports and government buildings by pro-Russian gunmen.

Russia may be violating Ukraine's sovereignty discretely, but without evidence, there is nothing which can be done. That is the problem so many of you are finding hard to grasp right now.

www.reuters.com...
news.yahoo.com...

No wonder why your view on this issue is lame.. ABC ,, yahoo ... Really ? You sir need some new outlets...

daaskapital

dragonridr
This agreement didnt give them the right to station troops in the airport or government buildings in the area, Like it or not thats an occupation and it maybe met with force.Your playing games with semantics. As far as Ukraine declaring war no they didnt they said if you bring Russian troops into our country we will consider this an act of war and will fight. This whole thing can be avoided putin simply puts his toys back in the box and goes home and this is done. By the way you dont need 15000 troops to protect one naval base but of course in your world i guess they do because i gues you figure the Russian military is just so pathetic that 15000 is what the use as security guards right?

Russia has not stationed troops in airports or government buildings. They are 'pro-Russian gunmen'. While those gunmen may be Russian operatives, they have no proven links to the government of Russia right now, meaning that Russia cannot be held accountable for the occupation of the airports and government buildings by pro-Russian gunmen.

Russia may be violating Ukraine's sovereignty discretely, but without evidence, there is nothing which can be done. That is the problem so many of you are finding hard to grasp right now.

www.reuters.com...
news.yahoo.com...

The US government has already made the statement russian troops were being deployed in the area. The Ukrainian government did the same. So i guess the only person the Russians seem to be fooling is you. But let me say this this must be the most funded militia in the world they can afford body armor troop carriers and helicopters. So i guess this is standard issue in that area of the world? So having never been there im guessing its possible they hand out military equipment on street corners there? Ive spent years in the military those are not militias those are combat troops with full combat loads.

LightningStrikesHere

daaskapital

dragonridr
This agreement didnt give them the right to station troops in the airport or government buildings in the area, Like it or not thats an occupation and it maybe met with force.Your playing games with semantics. As far as Ukraine declaring war no they didnt they said if you bring Russian troops into our country we will consider this an act of war and will fight. This whole thing can be avoided putin simply puts his toys back in the box and goes home and this is done. By the way you dont need 15000 troops to protect one naval base but of course in your world i guess they do because i gues you figure the Russian military is just so pathetic that 15000 is what the use as security guards right?

Russia has not stationed troops in airports or government buildings. They are 'pro-Russian gunmen'. While those gunmen may be Russian operatives, they have no proven links to the government of Russia right now, meaning that Russia cannot be held accountable for the occupation of the airports and government buildings by pro-Russian gunmen.

Russia may be violating Ukraine's sovereignty discretely, but without evidence, there is nothing which can be done. That is the problem so many of you are finding hard to grasp right now.

www.reuters.com...
news.yahoo.com...

No wonder why your view on this issue is lame.. ABC ,RT, yahoo ... Really ? You sir need some new outlets...savvy?

The outlets presented in this thread were ones i found while searching for information in order to clarify my points in this thread. I have read the information in a lot of other news sources, these were just the first to pop up when searching right now.

I don't see the Ukraine defending # so far. I think that if the u.s. gets involved this may be the start to ww3. Highly doubt it though.

reply to post by dragonridr


I'm not sure they are militia. Can we really be 100% certain they aren't just well funded and armed peaceful protesters?

dragonridr

daaskapital

dragonridr
This agreement didnt give them the right to station troops in the airport or government buildings in the area, Like it or not thats an occupation and it maybe met with force.Your playing games with semantics. As far as Ukraine declaring war no they didnt they said if you bring Russian troops into our country we will consider this an act of war and will fight. This whole thing can be avoided putin simply puts his toys back in the box and goes home and this is done. By the way you dont need 15000 troops to protect one naval base but of course in your world i guess they do because i gues you figure the Russian military is just so pathetic that 15000 is what the use as security guards right?

Russia has not stationed troops in airports or government buildings. They are 'pro-Russian gunmen'. While those gunmen may be Russian operatives, they have no proven links to the government of Russia right now, meaning that Russia cannot be held accountable for the occupation of the airports and government buildings by pro-Russian gunmen.

Russia may be violating Ukraine's sovereignty discretely, but without evidence, there is nothing which can be done. That is the problem so many of you are finding hard to grasp right now.

www.reuters.com...
news.yahoo.com...

The US government has already made the statement russian troops were being deployed in the area. The Ukrainian government did the same. So i guess the only person the Russians seem to be fooling is you. But let me say this this must be the most funded militia in the world they can afford body armor troop carriers and helicopters. So i guess this is standard issue in that area of the world? So having never been there im guessing its possible they hand out military equipment on street corners there? Ive spent years in the military those are not militias those are combat troops with full combat loads.

Let's put it this way:

Of course the USA and Ukraine are going to say they are Russian troops. They have nothing to lose, and everything to win by saying that. Of course Russia is going to distance themselves from the gunmen. They have everything to lose, and nothing to win by saying that they are close to them.

It is obvious that the pro-Russian gunmen are either Russian operatives or individuals funded by the Russian state. That being said though, Russia is not violating the sovereignty of Ukraine if it cannot be proven that the gunmen have direct links to the Russian state.

daaskapital

LightningStrikesHere

daaskapital

dragonridr
This agreement didnt give them the right to station troops in the airport or government buildings in the area, Like it or not thats an occupation and it maybe met with force.Your playing games with semantics. As far as Ukraine declaring war no they didnt they said if you bring Russian troops into our country we will consider this an act of war and will fight. This whole thing can be avoided putin simply puts his toys back in the box and goes home and this is done. By the way you dont need 15000 troops to protect one naval base but of course in your world i guess they do because i gues you figure the Russian military is just so pathetic that 15000 is what the use as security guards right?

Russia has not stationed troops in airports or government buildings. They are 'pro-Russian gunmen'. While those gunmen may be Russian operatives, they have no proven links to the government of Russia right now, meaning that Russia cannot be held accountable for the occupation of the airports and government buildings by pro-Russian gunmen.

Russia may be violating Ukraine's sovereignty discretely, but without evidence, there is nothing which can be done. That is the problem so many of you are finding hard to grasp right now.

www.reuters.com...
news.yahoo.com...

No wonder why your view on this issue is lame.. ABC ,RT, yahoo ... Really ? You sir need some new outlets...savvy?

The outlets presented in this thread were ones i found while searching for information in order to clarify my points in this thread. I have read the information in a lot of other news sources, these were just the first to pop up when searching right now.

Right , i completely understand sir. Pshhh who wouldn't use the MSM for an agenda .. *rolls eyes*

daaskapital

dragonridr
This agreement didnt give them the right to station troops in the airport or government buildings in the area, Like it or not thats an occupation and it maybe met with force.Your playing games with semantics. As far as Ukraine declaring war no they didnt they said if you bring Russian troops into our country we will consider this an act of war and will fight. This whole thing can be avoided putin simply puts his toys back in the box and goes home and this is done. By the way you dont need 15000 troops to protect one naval base but of course in your world i guess they do because i gues you figure the Russian military is just so pathetic that 15000 is what the use as security guards right?

Russia has not stationed troops in airports or government buildings. They are 'pro-Russian gunmen'. While those gunmen may be Russian operatives, they have no proven links to the government of Russia right now, meaning that Russia cannot be held accountable for the occupation of the airports and government buildings by pro-Russian gunmen.

Russia may be violating Ukraine's sovereignty discretely, but without evidence, there is nothing which can be done. That is the problem so many of you are finding hard to grasp right now.

www.reuters.com...
news.yahoo.com...

Pro-Russian Gunman.. don't you mean mercenary?

reply to post by daaskapital



sir ,here's video of RUSSIANS bringing in some more fire power 150k troops ,birds, what els ? Looks like a war is gona go down to me .... I mean if this is not provoking ,i dono what is
www.liveleak.com...

reply to post by daaskapital


Russia is not in Crimea at the request of the Ukrainian government.
Russia is in Crimea at the request of Crimea's state government which is pro-Russian.
Russia has no right to deploy anywhere apart from protecting it's base.

I bet a few weeks ago most folks couldnt locate Ukraine on a map. Now they're all experts on the region.

The Crimea is also an autonomous region. Why all the Ukraine invasion headlines? Over sensationalizing much?

The Ukraine is in chaos, all it would take is Ukrainian General leading a couple of his divisions of tanks and infantry to the Crimea.
Maybe not even under orders, but acting on nationalistic pride, orders the Russian commander to pull out and if he doesn't he will take it by combat. Then you get a bunch of dead Russian and Ukrainian soldiers, and it's full on.
Then again we could have some type of false flag like the Germans did with Poland to start WW2.

Skyfloating
I bet a few weeks ago most folks couldnt locate Ukraine on a map. Now they're all experts on the region.

And ,yesterday i found out i could save 15% on my car insurance ,by switching to geico

....what's in your wallet?

Oops i.mean what's your point? :-P