Russia declares war on Ukraine. Live updates from inside Ukraine

zilebeliveunknown
reply to post by deviant300

 

Annexation based on the illegal use of force is condemned in the Charter of the United Nations.

I think the annexation is the wrong term here.
It's more like that Crimean people wants to join Russia, not that Russia want to recapture Crimea.
It's a tricky situation, but I don't see any obstacles for Crimea to join Russia if their people want to.

Do the Crimean people truly want to join Russia or have independece or is the idea being forced by the barrel of a Russian gun and by Russia busing in Russian citizens to make it sound as so?

reply to post by deviant300

Certainly strange choice of words for a politician.
But then again he's a opposition member in Russian parlaiment, so I wouldn't take him very much serious as we have number of Russian politicians known for their strong rhetoric.

DECREE MAKING CRIMEA PART OF RUSSIA HAS COME INTO FORCE FROM MOMENT OF ADOPTION; RUSSIAN ARMED FORCES ARE ONLY LEGITIMATE FORCES IN REGION -DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER OF CRIMEA

On the surface, this would mean that the Russian annexation of the Crimea if complete (and East Ukraine is coming). Especially when one considers that earlier Crimea also said it could adopt the Russian rouble as its currency and "nationalise" state property as part of plans to join the Russian Federation, a regional official was quoted as saying on Thursday.

The only problem as we reported earlier is that Kiev opened a criminal investigation against Crimean Prime Minister Sergei Askyonov, who was appointed by the region's parliament last week. The Ukrainian government does not recognise his authority or that of the parliament. In other words, Kiev will not respect the Crimea's popular choice, even if it is fully supported by Putin, which means that a showdown, one in which Russia proclaims it is defending the democracy of the Crimea against the Kiev government, is now almost inevitable.

www.zerohedge.com...

As other posters mentioned, if this is already in force, then why organize a referendum? So following this statement it is in effect as of now.

13:50: Any Russian actions in Ukraine could escalate the situation further and the US is ready to take "additional actions", an unnamed senior US official is quoted by Reuters as saying.


Someone tell Kerry to stay of the botox... really.

dbo24

zilebeliveunknown
reply to post by deviant300

 

Annexation based on the illegal use of force is condemned in the Charter of the United Nations.

I think the annexation is the wrong term here.
It's more like that Crimean people wants to join Russia, not that Russia want to recapture Crimea.
It's a tricky situation, but I don't see any obstacles for Crimea to join Russia if their people want to.

Do the Crimean people truly want to join Russia or have independece or is the idea being forced by the barrel of a Russian gun and by Russia busing in Russian citizens to make it sound as so?

I very much doubt that Crimean people are forced to believe anything.
We will soon know what they have to say on referendum about Crimean status.

Recent updates from BBC live Feed


13:55: Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov (right) and US Secretary of State John Kerry meet to discuss the Ukraine crisis in Rome.

Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov (right) and US Secretary of State John Kerry meet to discuss the Ukraine crisis in Rome

13:50: Any Russian actions in Ukraine could escalate the situation further and the US is ready to take "additional actions", an unnamed senior US official is quoted by Reuters as saying.

13:50: More on the detention of a 40-strong team from the Organisation for Security and Co-operation in Europe (OSCE) as they try to enter Crimea. They were stopped by unidentified men in military fatigues, Polish Defence Minister Tomasz Siemoniak is quoted as saying by Reuters.

13:47: A copy of the US White House statement announcing US visa restrictions "on a number of officials and individuals" can be read here.

13:43: The USS Truxtun, a US Navy guided-missile destroyer, is heading to the Black Sea for what the US military has described as a "routine" deployment that was scheduled well before the crisis in Ukraine began, Reuters reports.

**

MessageforAll
www.whitehouse.gov...
Statement by the Press Secretary on Ukraine


I just skimmed it, a lot of nothing, empty treats.

I would tend to agree. But this portion of the US Statement you linked above seems to be in direct response to the Crimean Parliment's assertation that the 'annexation' is already 'in force' and supports the Ukrainian Parliment's statement that any annexation has to be done not through the territory in question but the entire Urkrainian gov't:

or purporting to assert governmental authority over any part of Ukraine without authorization from the Ukrainian government in Kyiv.

I think people assume far too much in thinking this isn't what the Crimea may want themselves. What if it is? Do they get that right at self determination too or is it only valid if their choice is for the West?



The last election results in Ukraine seem to show a profoundly divided nation in general politics...roughly along the lines being seen to form now.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


If that maps of yours hold any truth, and i'm sure it does, we can see this will end up bloody. If people are this divided then what about those people outside Crimea that want to join Russia? Does this also show the ground plan of Russia ( deployment wise )

Scary.

13:59: Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov says after talks with US Secretary of State John Kerry that there is no agreement on Ukraine yet, Interfax reports.

www.bbc.co.uk...

Still no agreements

Ukraine's interim PM Arseniy Yatsenyuk calls the Crimean parliament's decision to call a referendum illegal and says it has no "legal grounds at all".

14:12: Mr Yatsenyuk calls on Russia to withdraw its troops and "start real talks and negotiations for the peaceful solution".

14:10: "This is an illegitimate decision and this so-called referendum has no legal grounds at all. That's the reason why we urge the Russian government not to support those who claim separatism in Ukraine. Crimea was, is, and will be, an integral part of Ukraine," Mr Yatsenyuk tells reporters at a press conference in Brussels.

Steve Rosenberg, BBC Moscow correspondent tweets: How have the Russian markets reacted to today's news from Crimea? Negatively. Stocks have fallen, rouble weakened.

Wrabbit2000
It's interesting to watch a central government in Kiev declare what is and isn't legal when they came to power themselves by a coup and running the legally elected President out of the city and into hiding.

It's a Pot calling the Kettle black situation, isn't it? It sure does make for a mess though. The only "legitimate" and as far as I know, STILL proper, leader is a pro-Russian President 2/3rds of Ukraine seems to hate with a passion?

Of course, coup or election.. doesn't seem to matter if the Western powers 'bestow' the title of "legitimate". Suddenly...you are! Funny how that works....

Which is what makes this a doubly clever move by Putin. Having a vote by the Crimeans themselves I mean. No one will be able to claim he took power in a coup if they voted him in.

And the West can't complain when the people in Kiev forced their way into power without a vote, regardless of who was behind them prodding them forward.

Well played Vlad, well played.

14:29: Mr Yatsenyuk also vowed to defend Ukraine against Russian military intervention, saying "we are ready to protect our country".

14:39: Ukrainian naval ships are blocked in the port of Sevastopol by Russian warships.\

www.bbc.co.uk...

Crimea looks like it's going over to Russia, and there may even be an East Ukraine and West Ukraine after it is all said and done.

The pro-Russian protest leader in Ukraine's eastern city of Donetsk, Pavel Gubarev, has been arrested in his apartment. BBC reporters on the ground witnessed the arrest taking place by Ukrainian security services in the last few minutes.

deviant300

The pro-Russian protest leader in Ukraine's eastern city of Donetsk, Pavel Gubarev, has been arrested in his apartment. BBC reporters on the ground witnessed the arrest taking place by Ukrainian security services in the last few minutes.

This is one of the most the disturbing news I read all day, where is the FAIR EU now? Double standards.

It's 60% ethnic Russians living in Crimea, the other 40% have no choice. Its sad really...

zilebeliveunknown

dbo24

zilebeliveunknown
reply to post by deviant300

 

Annexation based on the illegal use of force is condemned in the Charter of the United Nations.

I think the annexation is the wrong term here.
It's more like that Crimean people wants to join Russia, not that Russia want to recapture Crimea.
It's a tricky situation, but I don't see any obstacles for Crimea to join Russia if their people want to.

Do the Crimean people truly want to join Russia or have independece or is the idea being forced by the barrel of a Russian gun and by Russia busing in Russian citizens to make it sound as so?

I very much doubt that Crimean people are forced to believe anything.
We will soon know what they have to say on referendum about Crimean status.

Your kind of naive arent you? Been plenty of cases in history where a group influences public opinion through fear and intimidation. Thats how Hitler came to power i suggest you look into the brown shirts and how they were used to put Hitler in power.