Atheists? Have you been feeling a bit "agnostic" lately?

Being an atheist or theist would have to be classified a mental illness, because there is no way to really know. These people endlessly beat each other up on internet forums over something unknowable, like in some kind of straitjacket scene, I feel bad for them. Will they ever awaken from their feverish phantasmagoria?

Skyfloating
Being an atheist or theist would have to be classified a mental illness, because there is no way to really know.

And being agnostic would have to be classified a mental illness, because there is no way to really know, if there is no way to really know.

reply to post by luciddream

Agnostic Atheist...

No claims, but expressions of doubt... Yep, you're an "Agnostic Atheist" (An atheist that's LIKE AN AGNOSTIC, BUT NOT AGNOSTIC ENOUGH TO BE ONE.)

Agnostic leaning toward Atheism

Nope. Agnostics don't "lean". In regard to God, only atheists, and theists, do that.

No, I do not believe GOD is real. 99% sure.

It is possible he is not real, but there is a possibility.. that 1%.

Your percentages have nothing to do with possibilities. Those are only measures of your "belief". And, because you are a "99% atheist", you lost your claim to "agnosticism" 99 percentage points behind you.

Because the first two questions are the only one's that really matter, there is no need to elaborate any further.

I'm looking forward to your comments. And, thank you, very much, for participating.

See ya buddy,
Milt

reply to post by Skyfloating

Being an atheist or theist would have to be classified a mental illness, because there is no way to really know. These people endlessly beat each other up on internet forums over something unknowable, like in some kind of straitjacket scene, I feel bad for them. Will they ever awaken from their feverish phantasmagoria?

Cool nanners! It seems that I found TRUE AGNOSTIC, that seems to feel, almost, the same as I do.

I am, most certainly, glad to see you participating!

Do you have any comments, about anything that I've said?

See ya buddy,
Milt

reply to post by BenReclused

Nope. Agnostics don't "lean". In regard to God, only atheists, and theists, do that.

From "Am I an atheist or agnostic?" by Bertrand Russell

Here there comes a practical question which has often troubled me. Whenever I go into a foreign country or a prison or any similar place they always ask me what is my religion.

I never know whether I should say "Agnostic" or whether I should say "Atheist". It is a very difficult question and I daresay that some of you have been troubled by it. As a philosopher, if I were speaking to a purely philosophic audience I should say that I ought to describe myself as an Agnostic, because I do not think that there is a conclusive argument by which one prove that there is not a God.

On the other hand, if I am to convey the right impression to the ordinary man in the street I think I ought to say that I am an Atheist, because when I say that I cannot prove that there is not a God, I ought to add equally that I cannot prove that there are not the Homeric gods.

None of us would seriously consider the possibility that all the gods of homer really exist, and yet if you were to set to work to give a logical demonstration that Zeus, Hera, Poseidon, and the rest of them did not exist you would find it an awful job. You could not get such proof.

Therefore, in regard to the Olympic gods, speaking to a purely philosophical audience, I would say that I am an Agnostic. But speaking popularly, I think that all of us would say in regard to those gods that we were Atheists. In regard to the Christian God, I should, I think, take exactly the same line.

From "What is an Agnostic" by Bertrand Russell

No. An atheist, like a Christian, holds that we can know whether or not there is a God. The Christian holds that we can know there is a God; the atheist, that we can know there is not. The Agnostic suspends judgment, saying that there are not sufficient grounds either for affirmation or for denial. At the same time, an Agnostic may hold that the existence of God, though not impossible, is very improbable; he may even hold it so improbable that it is not worth considering in practice. In that case, he is not far removed from atheism. His attitude may be that which a careful philosopher would have towards the gods of ancient Greece. If I were asked to prove that Zeus and Poseidon and Hera and the rest of the Olympians do not exist, I should be at a loss to find conclusive arguments. An Agnostic may think the Christian God as improbable as the Olympians; in that case, he is, for practical purposes, at one with the atheists.

reply to post by Lucid Lunacy

You don't know which of my posts address the OP?

Well... I haven't found any yet... but I'll keep looking...

So I guess when you said you were ESPECIALLY happy to see me join and meant it with the UTMOST sincerity, you were downright lying.

Nope! I REALLY meant that!

Unfortunately, you seem to be more concerned with expressing your hostilities, than addressing the content of this thread. Your obvious lack of integrity, IS INDEED, very disappointing. I don't know why, but I TRULY did expect better of you. Now that you're here, it seems that all you want to do is "sling mud". That's okay though, "Old Trolls" DO INDEED, love to feed on hostilities, and currently, I'm having trouble ignoring you...

Are you lying about anything else we should know about?

Your judgement is not my concern, so you figure it out...

See ya buddy,
Milt

So what would you guys call it if someone said that they didn't know if it could be proven or not? Does that still qualify as agnostic? In addition to that question, what's wrong with feeling as though there's no answer and still trying to find out if there is one? Being agnostic doesn't mean you plan on staying agnostic.

BenReclused


Do you have any comments, about anything that I've said?

It`s strange how we often have nothing to say to people we are in 100% agreement with.

AfterInfinity
Being agnostic doesn't mean you plan on staying agnostic.

Most of us dont even self-identity as "agnostic". Why is there the need to identify as any fixed position at all? Any position I stand in, limits me to a particular viewpoint, whereas a definitionless state allows for the consideration of all angles. Having no position does not make us spineless and weak as long as we are willing to occupy a position once truth has been found through experience.
Its more worthwhile however, to occupy ones mind and body with things that can be proven and experienced rather than with that which is unknowable. A Conclusion such as "God is real" or "There is no God" is a limitation, whereas occupying a question, such as "Is there a God?" allows for lifelong research.

reply to post by Skyfloating

Most of us dont even self-identity as "agnostic". Why is there the need to identify as any fixed position at all?

"Why do we need labels at all?" Because they help us navigate the vast web of idealism. Letting you know where you are in regard to one idea or another. Definition assists exploration, that sort of thing. We write stuff down so that others can understand how we arrived at that point. Labels are like names and descriptions on a map. That's how I see it, anyway.

Any position I stand in, limits me to a particular viewpoint, whereas a definitionless state allows for the consideration of all angles.

Drawing from my earlier metaphor: that's why we travel.

Having no position does not make us spineless and weak as long as we are willing to occupy a position once truth has been found through experience.

Again, that's why we travel.

Its more worthwhile however, to occupy ones mind and body with things that can be proven and experienced rather than with that which is unknowable.

I've been investigating that. I have no answers yet, but I will not make assumptions.

A Conclusion such as "God is real" or "There is no God" is a limitation, whereas occupying a question, such as "Is there a God?" allows for lifelong research.

If I may ask...what, exactly, does it limit?

reply to post by BenReclused


Do you intend to answer my previous post to you?

AfterInfinity


If I may ask...what, exactly, does it limit?

A conclusion assumes that something is settled and makes the mind stop looking and asking. It closes the mind. A question, on the other hand, opens the mind and gets it to look. "God is real" and "God is not real" are conclusions.

reply to post by Skyfloating

A conclusion assumes that something is settled and makes the mind stop looking and asking.

What if an answer were provided definitively? An answer that could not be refuted?

AfterInfinity

What if an answer were provided definitively? An answer that could not be refuted?

An Absolute? Then it would be settled. There are not many absolutes.

Skyfloating

AfterInfinity

What if an answer were provided definitively? An answer that could not be refuted?

An Absolute? Then it would be settled. There are not many absolutes.

And what do you think it would take to prove to a theist that their deity does not exist?

AfterInfinity


And what do you think it would take to prove to a theist that their deity does not exist?

Because its currently unknowable and the attempt to "prove a deity doesnt exist" would be based on the conclusion that "a deity doesnt exist", I would never attempt such a thing. But you would, apparently. Because you think you have reached a conclusion?

reply to post by BenReclused

Originally posted by Afterinfinity
You can feel that there are no gods and still not know for a fact.

No, I can't. My agnosticism won't allow me to do that.

Though, there is nothing wrong with "feeling" that way, atheists are the only ones that do.

Dear sweet Raptor Jesus!

You already said you didn't believe Ma'at existed.

You already said Ma'at's existence wasn't impossible > hadn't been proven to you.

I think you need to take a moment and collect your thoughts.

reply to post by Skyfloating

Being an atheist or theist would have to be classified a mental illness, because there is no way to really know.

If you bothered to familiarize yourself with the thread instead of just coming in and making these completely odd and off topic remarks, you would know many atheists are not claiming to know with the kind of certainty you're saying is mental illness.

reply to post by BenReclused

Unfortunately, you seem to be more concerned with expressing your hostilities, than addressing the content of this thread.

Oh the irony.

Well I am done playing your game. It's obvious this was never a discussion.