Religion vs. Politics.

reply to post by MOMof3


One needs to attain sense to master the laws which lead to morality. These laws are for everybody the same. A law does not stimulate a person to go against it, yet what is it that makes one trespass laws? One does not master them!

Some laws are for precaution, some are just agreements, which you have to follow even if you don't approve them. Some laws even benefit the people following them, or is it the achievement of mastering these laws which benefit the person?

Many claim religion to be control, but do they hate religion just because they hate control?
As it is said, if you've got nothing to hide, what's your problem then? Something must be not completely straight then.
I find the laws we have today similar to the ones taught in the bible.
Master the laws, though I believe we are born with a sense of them.

What forces makes people go against the law? The law is suited for mankind (my view has changed, I claimed the law to be restricting in another thread named bible vs law of man)

I believe everything inspired by God has the possiblity to succeed.

oktopus
reply to post by blueyezblkdragon

 

I'm sorry you are lost.

I'm not sorry. However am I the one that's lost ?

I've nothing against you or what religion you practice, however I'm aware that you can answer the question of religion vs politics since you made up your mind before you wrote this down.

And I quote "you swap from the one to the other as far in case you have to deal with politics and need to suck up for yourself not being killed, but true believers die for their faith.
When you vote for politics, you vote for war, murder and poverty, but of course, politicians keep you aware of only one side of the medal".

There is bias in this thread you created as can be seen above.
Perhaps try sticking to the title "sword of equality", so try not to be biased because equality requires you to be impartial to all matters.

In the meantime good luck and farewell.

reply to post by blueyezblkdragon


I think we both have a different view on religion. I wanted to ask what religion lies about? Something that lies imo cannot be religion. What LORD Jesus shows is truth. I am making everything LORD Jesus is showing mine and that I call my religion, so my religion is something alive.

Nowhere in this world I see religion. I only see people, people who are seeking and people who aren't. People who became inspired because of seeking the greater. Yes, it is the greater.

I must say, though I follow what I could call my intuition then, I do not have anything against the bible, though what's in it is easily used the wrong way, though the core of what it teaches is pure, yet easily misinterpreted. Is that because of the bible itself, or because of the person reading it?

I recall myself reading the bible and only gaining headaches because of it, then one day I prayed, called Jesus Lord and asked for the betterment of all of mankind. I never found the strenght I have since and I am experiencing a personal transformation.

Though I like to try and interpretate the letters of Paul. He coins interesting things.

The fly in you ointment here is this: When a person holds to faith it informs them and shapes them and their worldview. You cannot just turn it off and on. Religion and faith is not something that only happens for an hour or so in a church on Sunday. If you are a true believer, then you live your principles 24/7/365 as best you can.

That means that any person of faith who holds office will be making his or her decisions with these principles at heart.

Now, that doesn't mean you are trying to institute a theocracy which is much different, but it does mean that you will be making decisions based on your moral understanding of right and wrong. That moral understanding of right and wrong is shaped and informed by your faith, whatever it happens to be, even if it happens to be atheist.

You absolutely cannot ask a person to separate their politics and religion. It doesn't happen, at least, it doesn't happen when you are talking about politics. You could get the politics out of religion, but you cannot take the religion out of politics, any of them. You might as well ask people to carve out fundamental parts of themselves and their character first.

Great post ketsuko.

oktopus
You're either religious or a politician. The two don't go along.

Tell that to Moses. And Joshua. And David. Etc ...
All were uber-religious. All were political leaders. All were military leaders. All were DEADLY.

Perhaps it's better to say that you can't be both SPIRITUAL and a politician.
Well .. you could be ... but it would be really, really hard.

reply to post by FlyersFan


I think it might be closer to say that you would have trouble being an open church leader and a politician, at least in a pluralistic society. I just don't see Mike Huckabee getting elected anytime soon for this reason. I know I wouldn't want him. He's on record as saying he sees higher political office as a means to establish God's work on earth. That's a little too preachy/minster for me, and I'm fairly religious.

Shocking as it may seem, I don't want someone in high office who wants to use it to establish God's kingdom on earth anymore than I want someone in office who wants to establish a statist liberal Utopia. Both are too likely to use government force as means to their ends.

All I want is someone who has good, grounded morals and a belief in higher power such that they believe are basic unalienable rights are there by someone else's agency, not man's, and thus are not to be infringed upon by man.

reply to post by FlyersFan


Yes, good point. David was placed in that position by God, not? Maybe (I) (we) shouldn't think of the government as reptillians or evil beings. That might just be my struggly, people convincing me to have anything against the authorities. It's not because we struggle against them that we have to have something against them. Do you understand.

Yet the government exists for sustaining the people, by protecting them and whatever.

Many talk sh*t about the government but aren't they all at the governments side at the same time?

If someone wants to live in a world with no government, well, I guess this isn't the time to live then, and never will be.

Government often uses religion to justify itself as in one nation under God but really God has been left out of the power loop unless we think of corporations as God. Separation of church and state is a misnomer since the church does not pay taxes and the government levies taxes. This means that the taxes that the church levies on it's constituency are a form of profit. Yet religion is a manifestation of having no spirit therefore no power. Unless you count deception as a power then it is all mighty. I have seen the churches from inside. Everything is orchestrated to look like manifestations of power but it is just theatrics and everybody plays along in this carnal carnival of powerless flesh. What is this mystery when the bible says that the flesh profits nothing and yet all this flesh is parading in their Sunday best playing this power of the church games. Flesh ministering to flesh without any spirit. God is spirit and not flesh. Flesh goes to the house of God but God does not reside there. He resides in dungeons of flesh. We are supposed to be temples of God. But all I see is people placing God outside of themselves which is idolatry. Now after posting this two camps will form. Those who think I am insane or that I am blasphemous and the others who wonder how come I speak as if I was God. My purpose is not to convince anybody of anything but separating the two lots. Those who can believe me and those who cannot. Dividing the lots we were born into.

allthings2allmen

Now after posting this two camps will form. Those who think I am insane or that I am blasphemous and the others who wonder how come I speak as if I was God. My purpose is not to convince anybody of anything but separating the two lots. Those who can believe me and those who cannot. Dividing the lots we were born into.

No one wonders why you speak as if you were God...

... because you don't. There is nothing there to wonder about.


You're not "insane", you're just terribly human as evidenced by your words and the way you speak them, and you're not blasphemous, since you can't speak against God, knowing nothing of It ("It" being God, which is neither male nor female, therefore not a "him" or a "her"), you know not what to speak against.

Nor are you the Antichrist as you claim elsewhere. You may speak several languages, but Greek is not one of them. If it were, you would know that the prefix "anti-" means "against" or "in opposition to", NOT "instead of" or "a replacement for" as you elsewhere claim in several places.

You can't be the Antichrist because you do not know enough of the Christ to oppose him, either.

You're just a guy.

What did Jesus say in the matter of state vs. religion? It wasn't any convoluted screed as you have just posted. It was very simple, and to the point. He said "render unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's, and unto God the things which are God's".

The very epitome and distillation of the separation of church and state. You seem to have missed the mark entirely.

reply to post by doompornjunkie


I agree with what you've written and would like to add that the underlying impetus common to both is "Competition." Life is all about competition and selection (survival of the fittest) whether it's an religious ideology or a political one, both informational concepts are humble subjects constrained by this/the law/s of nature. Nature is unforgiving, unsympathetic and unwaveringly objective in choosing her suitors - only the strong survive.

There are two types of people. Spiritual and carnal minded. Believers and unbelievers. Lovers of truth and lovers of lies. The law of men applies to all. The laws of God also applies to everybody. God has set government over us and authorities. We must give to the government what we owe the government, mainly taxes and abiding by the law. But what we owe God is to be transformed into the image of his son. However this is not possible for unbelievers only believers can understand and accomplish this transformation. All of creation is waiting for the manifestation of the sons of God. All will be known as what they are. Now is the time of the separation of the lots. Believers will be known as believers and unbelievers will be known as unbelievers. If a great promise is made he who cannot believe it is an unbeliever.

Wisdom or Folly?

The sky is blue and the sun sits above the clouds. The wind moves the covering clouds but no one knows where the wind came from or when it will move the clouds again. There are covering clouds which are light and their are clouds which are dark and the difference is the amount of moisture they contain. When the rain comes we must seek shelter or get wet. The rain falls on everyone but only those who seek shelter will remain dry. Nature demands that rain fall on the earth and that everyone, upon occasion, get wet. The wetness of the rain is what compel a person to want to be dry. The warmth of the sun is preferable to the wetness of the rain. Now is the time for those who wish to be wet to remain soggy and those who seek to be dry to seek shelter. Everyone is waiting for the manifestation of the umbrella so one can walk in the rain and still remain dry as if they walked in the sun.

oktopus
The two don't go along.

Dalai Lama opens Senate session with prayer

news.yahoo.com...

Politics and religion goes hand-in-hand if the politicians and pagan religions work for the devil.

If politics does not function with religion, then why on earth did they have the Dalai Lama with them ?

Answer: They all suck up the backside of Lucifer to usher in a one world religion, one world currency and one world order.

allthings2allmen
There are two types of people. Spiritual and carnal minded. Believers and unbelievers. Lovers of truth and lovers of lies.

I was told that the two types are "the quick and the dead". To each his own, I suppose.

If a great promise is made he who cannot believe it is an unbeliever.

Likewise, if a great promise is made, he who cannot deliver on when he claims he can is a charlatan.

We give to the government what we owe the government. In order to owe them, they must first give us something so that we owe it. In the case of taxes, it's money. Since the government issues money, it's theirs to retake.

In the case of God, what we owe is far different, and government has no part in it or claim on it.

One of my conversation students Is a middle aged Japanese lady who likes to go to Myanmar. A few years back she took a two hour ride outside the beaten track and found a little village. There she saw a school and asked the teacher what was needed. The teacher said we need paper and pencils. So the lady got her paper and pencils. The next time her husband went to Myanmar on business she went to see the little school and saw all the little happy faces. A storm had destroyed part of the school and she asked the teacher what do you need and the teacher said we need a new classroom.Next year when she went back there was a new classroom and all the children were celebrating their new school. That my friend is what we owe God and in return he gives us satisfaction and meaning to our lives. Jesus said do you not know that you are Gods? How God treats others is how he treats himself. God is watching us from inside us. He knows our every thought and the intent of our hearts. Few are those willing to give the spirit of God a voice because of the price to pay but verily I say to you a chosen remnant shall inherit the kingdom of God.

reply to post by allthings2allmen


???

What are you trying to say, and what is it's bearing on this thread?

reply to post by allthings2allmen

However this is not possible for unbelievers only believers can understand and accomplish this transformation.

I respectfully disagree, and wonder why you think so.
I believe anyone who lives a life focused on the well-being of the human race as a whole is quite all right by whatever the source/creator thinks. Or is. Or means to say. (In any case, "God" is not a person with idiosyncratic eccentricities and opinions like we humans are.)

Religion and religious conviction and religious indoctrination do not cause morals or the ability to be good and worthy. Morals are inborn, and natural.

??
In my opinion

reply to post by BuzzyWigs


I agree with you Buzzy wigs. We are born the way we are but many try to give an impression that they are something they are not. This is why a method had to be devises to separate the lots without damaging anything. When I speak some believe me and some cannot. These are what they were born to be. Those who believe and those who do not. So when you posted what you posted I believed you. Birds of a feather buzz wigs together.

Holographicmeat
reply to post by oktopus

 

I think morality is simply a persons ability to distinguish between right and wrong behavior. I don't need a religion to tell me hurting other people is wrong. I don't need someone else to threaten me with eternal punishment to be kind and courteous to people I meet. I surely don't need it to love other people. My emotions tell me that. It comes from the heart, not a book or because someone else told me to I HAD to. I honestly don't think dedicating my life to a religion is a moral of any kind.

all you said is essence of every religion.
we don't have a problem of religious people, we have a problem of people who SAY they are religious but in fact do quite the opposite of what their religion teaches them.
even you said you don't need a religion you are actually more religious than the "religious" people.

I could find a dozen of quotes from various holy books that are mentioning people like you DIRECTLY.

heart of religion is TO DO GOOD, not to SAY "I'm doing good things"...

OK, I couldn't resist:

(please don't take it literally; it's symbolic)

Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?' And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!'