Y Chromosome Vanishing

a reply to: DBCowboy

Thank you for clarification.

See?

Without you guys I'd be lost!

Hugs!

Glad it was just one scientist and not a conscensus.

Here's an article from 2011/12 -- Is the Y chromosome disappearing?--both sides of the argument

Which also has links to similar articles.

Abstract
On August 31, 2011 at the 18th International Chromosome Conference in Manchester, Jenny Graves took on Jenn Hughes to debate the demise (or otherwise) of the mammalian Y chromosome. Sex chromosome evolution is an example of convergence; there are numerous examples of XY and ZW systems with varying degrees of differentiation and isolated examples of the Y disappearing in some lineages.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

a reply to: FlyersFan

All embryos are technically female until around 12 weeks, when a gene on the Y chromosome kicks in and male development starts (hence why men have nipples).

So all men are transgender if that's the case. Scientifically speaking of course.

originally posted by: Annee
Here's an article from 2011/12 -- Is the Y chromosome disappearing?--both sides of the argument

Which also has links to similar articles.

Abstract
On August 31, 2011 at the 18th International Chromosome Conference in Manchester, Jenny Graves took on Jenn Hughes to debate the demise (or otherwise) of the mammalian Y chromosome. Sex chromosome evolution is an example of convergence; there are numerous examples of XY and ZW systems with varying degrees of differentiation and isolated examples of the Y disappearing in some lineages.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

Of note is ..."disappearing in SOME lineages".

I wonder if it is nature's plan that men go extinct, will the remaining women reproduce by fission, budding, or virgin birth? Or will some women lose an arm from the second X, making it a Y?

ETA: If you were the last man on an Earth populated by all women, I wonder if it would be analogous to the saying, "In the land of the blind, a one-eyed man is king"?

originally posted by: TheMichiganSwampBuck
I wonder if it is nature's plan that men go extinct, will the remaining women reproduce by fission, budding, or virgin birth? Or will some women lose an arm from the second X, making it a Y?

Frozen sperm lasts for years.

Plus, males will still be born.

But that is current today. Science will evolve.

originally posted by: quintessentone

originally posted by: Annee
Here's an article from 2011/12 -- Is the Y chromosome disappearing?--both sides of the argument

Which also has links to similar articles.

Abstract
On August 31, 2011 at the 18th International Chromosome Conference in Manchester, Jenny Graves took on Jenn Hughes to debate the demise (or otherwise) of the mammalian Y chromosome. Sex chromosome evolution is an example of convergence; there are numerous examples of XY and ZW systems with varying degrees of differentiation and isolated examples of the Y disappearing in some lineages.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

Of note is ..."disappearing in SOME lineages".

Interesting.

I did not see that

originally posted by: BeyondKnowledge3
a reply to: FlyersFan

You are not saying all this transgender stuff is just adopting something too soon that is scientifically inevitable?

I think it is something in the drinking water myself. Both the transgender and y chromosome stuff.

Did colonel Jack Ripper have it right?

I remember reading something a few years ago.

It was to do with Estrogens.
So much of it that it cant be 100 percent filterd through water.

So they are jumping the gun with males transitioning to females? and we were confused to Y they were doing that

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: quintessentone

originally posted by: Annee
Here's an article from 2011/12 -- Is the Y chromosome disappearing?--both sides of the argument

Which also has links to similar articles.

Abstract
On August 31, 2011 at the 18th International Chromosome Conference in Manchester, Jenny Graves took on Jenn Hughes to debate the demise (or otherwise) of the mammalian Y chromosome. Sex chromosome evolution is an example of convergence; there are numerous examples of XY and ZW systems with varying degrees of differentiation and isolated examples of the Y disappearing in some lineages.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

Of note is ..."disappearing in SOME lineages".

Interesting.

I did not see that

Yes, digging a little deeper here shows the Y chromosome is not really lost. This topic is somewhat complex and needs a good deep dive, but not by me. I'll just skim the surface here and leave the splain'n to the experts.

Until now, this was thought to be a peculiarity found in one isolated species, but new data suggest that the phenomenon of genes moving from sex chromosomes to autosomes is widespread among mammals, including humans.

Lead author Jennifer Hughes from the Whitehead Institute, USA, said: “Genes that have survived on the Y chromosome are extraordinarily long-lived and likely serve important biological functions. However, there are numerous exceptions where seemingly critical genes have been lost from the Y chromosome in certain mammals. In many cases, these genes were not actually eliminated but have found new homes in the genome.

geneticliteracyproject.org...

Makes me wonder How many repetitions ago was it the same size as the X chromosome?

a reply to: FlyersFan

Could it just be a large scale evolutionary cycle?
There are data that seem to show that trends in selective gender birth occurs during time of human stress, like wars, disease and major catastrophe.

Perhaps there is just to little recorded data to understand it as of yet.

I was about to create a new thread a few days ago but wanted some additional information. This was the article that caught my attention.

www.sciencealert.com...

Title: The Y Chromosome Is Vanishing. A New Sex Gene May Be The Future of Men.

The sex of human and other mammal babies is decided by a male-determining gene on the Y chromosome. But the human Y chromosome is degenerating and may disappear in a few million years, leading to our extinction unless we evolve a new sex gene.

The good news is two branches of rodents have already lost their Y chromosome and have lived to tell the tale.

A recent paper in Proceedings of the National Academy of Science shows how the spiny rat has evolved a new male-determining gene.

It could be an extinction event according to some authors.

originally posted by: TheMichiganSwampBuck
I wonder if it is nature's plan that men go extinct, will the remaining women reproduce by fission, budding, or virgin birth? Or will some women lose an arm from the second X, making it a Y?

ETA: If you were the last man on an Earth populated by all women, I wonder if it would be analogous to the saying, "In the land of the blind, a one-eyed man is king"?

Erm, that sounds like death by snu snu.

a reply to: FlyersFan

Bryan Sykes Ph.D. D.Sc. wrote a book on this back in 2003 Adam's Curse: A Future Without Men (also known as Adam's Curse: A Story of Sex, Genetics, and the Extinction of Men)

It was panned at the time because the concept of genetic degradation over time was not only outside of, but directly contrary to every theory of evolution.

Sykes also puts the time-frame for the end of existence of male humans to within 5,000 generations, equivalent to 250,000 years.

Seem what goes around, comes around.

a reply to: chr0naut

...not only outside of, but directly contrary to every theory of evolution.

I see no contradiction. But you are right that this disappearing-Y-chromosome business is old news.

I never thought I would live in a country where biologists and judges where to stupid to know the difference e
Between men and woman so why not, I'm juts glad I'll be dead. However I disagree woman and men are so close, juts look at the ripple. Our brains are wired 100% diffrwnt. As it should be.

originally posted by: FlyersFan
Interesting article. Go to the link to read what is happening to the Y Chromosome. No time frame is given for when the Y Chromosome in humans will disappear - anywhere from a few thousand years to never. But it is shrinking and that has consequences.

Y Chromosome Vanishing

We were all taught that the X and Y genes determine sex. Women have a pair of XX chromosomes, and men XY. But what you might not have been taught is that the Y chromosome is much smaller, carrying around 55 genes compared to roughly 900 on the X.

All embryos are technically female until around 12 weeks, when a gene on the Y chromosome kicks in and male development starts (hence why men have nipples). However, it seems the Y chromosome wasn’t always so small – and that’s where the problem lies. It’s shrinking – and some scientists worry it could disappear altogether.

originally posted by: Astyanax
a reply to: chr0naut

...not only outside of, but directly contrary to every theory of evolution.

I see no contradiction. But you are right that this disappearing-Y-chromosome business is old news.

It means that you don't get millions of years for lifeforms to evolve, because they degrade towards reproductive inviability in a fraction of the time.

It doesn't mean that evolution doesn't happen, it does mean that it has to happen faster than usually proposed, and we need to adjust the theoretical frameworks to accommodate degeneration.

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: Astyanax
a reply to: chr0naut

...not only outside of, but directly contrary to every theory of evolution.

I see no contradiction. But you are right that this disappearing-Y-chromosome business is old news.

It means that you don't get millions of years for lifeforms to evolve, because they degrade towards reproductive inviability in a fraction of the time.

It doesn't mean that evolution doesn't happen, it does mean that it has to happen faster than usually proposed, and we need to adjust the theoretical frameworks to accommodate degeneration.

The Cambrian explosion is one such time where the rates of morphological and genetic evolution were much higher in comparison to other eras including out own era.

This isn't new information.

originally posted by: Astyanax
a reply to: chr0naut

...not only outside of, but directly contrary to every theory of evolution.

I see no contradiction. But you are right that this disappearing-Y-chromosome business is old news.

The poster seems to have a problem with the scientific theory of evolution just as other posters who either misunderstand the concept and the evidence we have or accept it with a very heavy heart tying to find somewhere to fit their own religious beliefs.