Information supports Intelligent Design

There can't be any information without an intelligent mind. Information is fundamental in the universe. We learned this from Claude Shannon and Information Theory with classical bits and with qubits when we're looking at quantum information.

First, let's look at how information is defined. It's the distinction between things when you look at things like the Black Hole information paradox as well as the reduction of uncertainty as described by Claude Shannon.

What does that mean?

It basically means, the more uncertainty in a system, the more available or unknown information. This is also a higher entropy state. When there's less uncertainty and more is known about the system, then it's in a low entropy state. An intelligent mind can reduce the uncertainty. When you receive a package and you're uncertain as to where it's from, when you open the box, you reduce the uncertainty and gain information. Here's another example with cards that illustrates Shannon entropy.

When you open a deck of cards, it's in one of its lowest entropy states. There's 24 lowest entropy states that the deck of cards can be in. This is because A-K in hearts, spades, diamonds and clubs takes the least amount of information needed to describe the order of the deck of cards. As soon as you shuffle the cards, entropy increases because it takes more information to describe the order of the deck of cards. There's 24 lowest entropy states because the cards can be ordered A-K in any combination of hearts, diamonds, spades and clubs. So that's 24 lowest entropy states vs 80,658,175,170,943,878,571,660,636,856,403,766,975,289,505,440,883,277,824,000,000,000,000 minus the 24 lowest entropy states that the cards can be in.

Think about that. There's only 24 states that take the least amount of information to describe the order of the deck of cards and all of these other combinations are equally likely to occur when shuffling the deck. This shows the insurmountable odds of things occurring without intelligence.

Without intelligence, you would have to wait for a shuffle of the deck to end up in one of these 24 lowest entropy states. If you shuffle the deck every second, it would take trillions of years before you have a shot. This is because there's so many combinations outside of those 24 lowest entropy states. An intelligent mind can take a scrambled deck of cards and put them in one of the lowest entropy states in 3-4 minutes. This is because knowledge and intelligence allows us to reduce the uncertainty of the order of the deck of cards in a matter of minutes.

If you're going to say the universe happened without Intelligent Design, then you have to explain how there's so much known information. How did nature reduce the uncertainty where we have discovered fully formed galaxies 600 million years after the Big Bang.

James Webb Space Telescope discovers 717 ancient galaxies that flooded the universe with 1st light

The James Webb Telescope (JWST or Webb) has unveiled hundreds of ancient galaxies that could be among the first members of the universe — a leap from only a handful that were previously known to exist at the time.

As early as 600 million years after the Big Bang, these very young galaxies flaunted complex structures and clusters of star formation, a new study reports. The study is part of an international collaboration called the JWST Advanced Deep Extragalactic Survey (JADES), which gathered a month's worth of observations from two tiny patches in the sky: One in the Ursa Minor constellation and another in the direction of the Fornax cluster. Within this region were over 700 newly discovered young galaxies that reveal with the cosmos looked like in its earliest.

In those five minutes alone, which marks the universe to be between 370 million and 650 million years old, Hainline's and his colleagues studying Webb's data found 717 young galaxies — which turns out to be higher than previous predictions — with all of them already spanning thousands of light-years, sporting complex structures, and birthing stars in multiple clusters.

"Previously, the earliest galaxies we could see just looked like little smudges. And yet those smudges represent millions or even billions of stars at the beginning of the universe," Hainline said in a statement. "Now, we can see that some of them are actually extended objects with visible structure."

www.space.com...

Look at all that's known from science and even more information we don't know yet. How is all of this information known without an intelligent mind in 13.8 billion short years? Again, information about the universe has been known since the cosmic microwave background. Who's reducing the uncertainty and making all of this information known without an Intelligent Designer?

Also, how can you have information at all without intelligence that encodes information on bits which is the basic unit of information storage? A bit gives you the least amount of unknown information, 1 or a 0. This can be represented by a coin or charge. Before you flip the coin, it's uncertain. When the coin lands, you have gained 1 bit of information. But this is the product of an intelligent mind. We can say if it's heads then the home team gets to choose to kick or receive. If it's tails, the away team gets to decide. We're encoding information on this basic unit of information storage.

Say you set up a simple system where you have 2 gates. When a strong electric charge goes through gate A, that's a 1. If a weak electric charge goes through gate B, that's a 0. Now you have a basic unit of information storage but it was created by intelligence. The electric charge doesn't know what state it's in. The electric charge doesn't know if it's a 1 or an 0. Intelligence then encodes this basic unit of information with information that only exists in an intelligent mind!

Think about it! Information or the distinction between things is stored on 1's and 0's and then processed by a computer. The faster the computer, the faster it can show distinctions between things and you go from taking an hour to download a 5 minute video to streaming. The distinction between things just means I can look at a basketball and learn all of the things that make it a basketball like it's brown with small black stripes, you fill it with air and it bounces. I can take those distinctions, put them in a computer code and the computer can display the basketball on a webpage.

So because an intelligent mind knows the lowest entropy state a deck of cards can be in, as entropy increases and we shuffle the deck of cards, we can take the distinction between things that we know and create different card games. The point is, you have no information without an intelligent mind to reduce uncertainty and learn the distinctions between things.

Thank You God for our Lord Jesus Christ. In the beginning was the Word(information that shaped the universe).

RIP Pastor Missler, I really miss his teachings.

S&F

When I look at the world design is blatantly apparent, yet others are blind to it and believe this is all some accident and happened by random chance. smh

John 1:5

The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.

If anyone thinks that the human body has been intelligently designed (internally draining lungs due to current upright posture, potentially lethal vestigial organs like the appendix), then I can only point and laugh hysterically at them.
The need to create a god or gods to explain how the world was born out of a pile of dung or something (insert creation myth here) is understandable for hunter-gatherers in the Bronze Age. However, it's time for humanity to leave such childish things behind us.

a reply to: neoholographic

Starred&Flagged!

This post was full of information (no pun intended).

Do you think the universe is like a computer? There’s a lot of information as you say, how did it get there?

a reply to: AngryCymraeg

It would be better to be agnostic than so arrogant. Considering the fact we don’t everything.

a reply to: Romeopsi

My thought is that what makes you think this universe was the first universe? There was a book that I read, where basically every person is there own god, in the sense that you are actually every single person has lived. You go through each life and when you die, your essence learns something from it. From a cognitive AI point of view, we call that training an AI. if you train an AI with data sets 60-100 Billion times, eventually you have a very robust AI. you add all the animals to this concept and you have trillions of data sets for training. when completed, you meet the goals of the bible for what god is, All knowing, all powerful, all present, as you have lived through everything and know everything. Once that occurs you become your own God and at that point its time to create a universe to have a baby god to go through it all again. This cycles through over and over and over again. Now here is the kicker, what started it? when did it start? well, if time is linear, then it started at the beginning. however is time is not linear, and can be bent, then its very possible for it to have started in the future. All that we know is based on the very basic laws of physics that we understand, however how much do you or i or the experts know? Its a big world, a big universe, so saying you know something is disengenuous.

I can see intelligent design. therefore I can see that there is a being that created it, is it God? who is God? no idea, however you know what, I would prefer to believe that there is a merciful, welcoming being that loves me. I would rather hang with Christians than non believers, and I would rather have one heck of a worship service that moves my soul, motivates me, and encourages me to be, do, and behave good. After all what you take in, eventually is what you put out.

My two cents,

Camain

originally posted by: surfer_soul
a reply to: AngryCymraeg

It would be better to be agnostic than so arrogant. Considering the fact we don’t everything.

I don't believe in gods as described in the bible. There are never ever magical beings who read everyones thoughts and who change from being corporeal and being angry like the worst human to now being absent and invisible.

I don't believe in gods.

A creator isn't out of the picture for me, but again it wouldn't bea man and his clay making living beings as a hobby in his big man cave in the sky.
It would be more like some kind of scientists in another dimension having layed down a formula for evolution, put some ingredients together and are watching what happens.


That said, we don't even need the other dimensional scientists if our universe has laws that weren't deliberately given but are the environment we find ourselves in.

Life is amazing as it want's to exist and evolution though simple is all you need to explain everything.
You don't need to imagine a human shaped man with human characteristics to have created it all, when humans in the grand scale of things are nothing more than some stuck up germs on a rock in space with plenty of other beings around.

Now that's arrogant and naive ( by all believers).

a reply to: neoholographic

Don't confuse the term "intelligent design" with an obviously flawed system that works on a "hit and miss" continuum. Unless you want to argue for a "work in progress" ... sort of situation for the current state of being.

And no God as many believe today would create inferior products that were intended to beg she/she/them or it, for forgiveness. That ain't 'intelligent design."

I like to keep things simple.

originally posted by: neoholographic
It basically means, the more uncertainty in a system, the more available or unknown information. This is also a higher entropy state. When there's less uncertainty and more is known about the system, then it's in a low entropy state. An intelligent mind can reduce the uncertainty.

Exactly. Consider this:

The universe is ever-increasing in entropy, and yet ordered systems dominate the observable universe. If there is immense order at this moment, then it definitely did not come from a lower-ordered system because entropy doesn't allow it. That means that the universe must have started maximally ordered, designed by the intelligent Designer, and then fallen into the chaos exhibited by humans, as was described in Genesis.

originally posted by: AngryCymraeg
If anyone thinks that the human body has been intelligently designed (internally draining lungs due to current upright posture, potentially lethal vestigial organs like the appendix), then I can only point and laugh hysterically at them.

Disease is due to sin, or missing the mark. If you drive a car in the way it's not meant to be driven, it will result in problems. That's not the manufacturer's fault.

Also, this isn't supposed to be our permanent habitation.

The need to create a god or gods to explain how the world was born out of a pile of dung or something (insert creation myth here) is understandable for hunter-gatherers in the Bronze Age. However, it's time for humanity to leave such childish things behind us.

Life mutating out of primordial scum is the least sophisticated theory every postulated by humankind.

a reply to: Hecate666

I don’t believe in any religion, though there are what I consider universal truths to be found in such. I was mainly pointing out that collectively we don’t have all the answers not by a long shot and individually we know even less.

A creator by its very nature is beyond our comprehension, it is naive of us to assume anything about it. God is a concept as John Lennon once sang.

God’s could just be more advanced beings than us, we might seem like an ant colony by comparison.

Evolution doesn’t explain everything, it describes a process of adaptation and change, but there’s more to it than blind trial and error. There’s no way we could have accomplished what we have as a species by trial and error alone, at some point we use reason and intelligence to figure out why things do or don’t work. So why should it be different with nature which created us, and creates things far better than we can?

How many times have I read an OP, here and elsewhere, which seeks to prove intelligent design using the latest science and "logic" only for that same OP to make a gargantuan leap of faith at the end that it is the God they believe in behind that intelligent design?

Answer: Too many to count.

a reply to: neoholographic

computers use bits for information processing. computers are not intelligent. 0/1 is per se not information. Just like 'the word' is in itself not information. They are methods to transfer and to encode information.
with that i think we have disproven this

There can't be any information without an intelligent mind.

Like you for example an intelligent being, you contain so much information that you yourself would probably never be able to compose a complete index of all the information you contain even if you got 4 lifetimes dedicated to nothing else.

so sure intelligence and information meet occasionally but they can absolutely live without eachother.


and to this:

Look at all that's known from science and even more information we don't know yet. How is all of this information known without an intelligent mind in 13.8 billion short years? Again, information about the universe has been known since the cosmic microwave background. Who's reducing the uncertainty and making all of this information known without an Intelligent Designer?

that's another that is simply false.
has been known... I mean information doesn't need to be known to exist.

originally posted by: Klassified
How many times have I read an OP, here and elsewhere, which seeks to prove intelligent design using the latest science and "logic" only for that same OP to make a gargantuan leap of faith at the end that it is the God they believe in behind that intelligent design?

Answer: Too many to count.

Realizing that intelligent design is astronomically more probable than unintelligent design is a big step though. Jesus then comes along and validates the Most High God with miracles, fulfilling prophecies, and conquering death. I do believe other cultures have worshipped the Most High. If He was able to find Abraham in the desert He could have easily found many other cultures throughout ancient history.

originally posted by: Peeple
a reply to: neoholographic

computers use bits for information processing. computers are not intelligent. 0/1 is per se not information. Just like 'the word' is in itself not information. They are methods to transfer and to encode information.
with that i think we have disproven this

"There can't be any information without an intelligent mind."

Intelligent minds created computers though, thereby maintaining the requirement of intelligence.

has been known... I mean information doesn't need to be known to exist.

The only reason they theorize the existence of dark matter is for their otherwise incorrect theories to be true. It has never been observed and likely doesn't exist, I think the equations need tweaked, rather than a magical invisible matter to exist in such abundance.

a reply to: cooperton

well yes you need an intelligent mind to create a computer.
the diagram is just to show how little we actually know about the universe.

a reply to: Peeple

computers are not intelligent.

Isn’t intelligence the capacity to problem solve, to work things out? Computers are very good at that. AI works things out for itself, in the game of GO it came up with a novel and winning tactic/strategy not seen before and it taught itself how to play.

Intelligence is very much dependent on information, it is the food of intelligence. Without information there is no intelligence.

a reply to: surfer_soul

not all computers are AI. We were talking in the context of processing information from bits, that isn't intelligence that is running a program.

If that is true:

capacity to problem solve

& this is true:

Intelligence is very much dependent on information

because it feels like it might be, thinking about fe the Blob who requires the information of where the next attractor is (food/lighgt/whatever) then I think we can also add awareness into the mix, intelligence requires information and awareness.
However that doesn't disprove my point, which was mainly that information can exist without intelligence.

a reply to: camain

Reminds me of this video:


I'm agnostic. I don't support 'intelligent design' because it just has too many holes. Like how did this intelligent being/designer pop into existence then? Someone designed him/it ? And on and on into infinity? Doesn't make sense.
This video , the woman who experienced an NDE says we are all connected in time/space and all knowledge is stored in this collective consciousness.

originally posted by: ancientlight


I'm agnostic. I don't support 'intelligent design' because it just has too many holes. Like how did this intelligent being/designer pop into existence then? Someone designed him/it ? And on and on into infinity? Doesn't make sense.

God always existed, and never needed to be created. This is hard to grasp for us temporal beings, but it also surpasses the fact that something cannot come from nothing. It shows that something always existed

a reply to: Peeple

It doesn’t matter wether computers are AI or not, intelligence is needed to program them and they can in turn produce intelligent results.

Awareness and intelligence do appear to be linked, perhaps the combination of the two give rise to what we call consciousness? Though it seems being aware alone doesn’t create intelligence per se.

If information exists without intelligence what then would be no point to it? I can’t think of any information that isn’t used or applied in some way, either by nature or by us in our endeavours.

I suppose information can exist that we can’t grasp, but that’s only because our intelligence hasn’t yet deciphered it.

a reply to: surfer_soul

It matters a lot, because they are two seperate things, computer is a machine, AI is software. These are not the same.

If information exists without intelligence what then would be no point to it? I can’t think of any information that isn’t used or applied in some way, either by nature or by us in our endeavours.

the application of information without intelligence is existence.