Is precognition just advanced brain function?

It is a fact that as man evolved, certain mutations took place within the nervous system that forced it to evolve in time with the body. Just as external physical changes were selected as either worthy or unworthy by the environment, mutations in the nervous system were also forced to prove their might against environmental challenges.

This is an excerpt from an article I was reading today in regards to the evolution of humans and our mind. From what I�ve been reading, it sounds as though we are not truly experiencing physic phenomena, but our minds are gathering information in such a quick manner, that we are able to anticipate actions that are going to occur in the near future.
For every action there is a reaction. Would it be too far fetched to say, that as man has evolved, our minds have become capable of processing information at such an accelerated rate, that we our now able to predetermine some events in our life, based off of the logical response that our actions would cause? Or off of our lifestyles/social habits?

Per say, when you get the feeling that the phone is going to ring, is that really a precognitive sense, or does your mind know that based on the time of day, the amount of phone calls you receive within a day, and your families back ground with calling, that it is the �logical� conclusion that your mom is going to call any minute now?

When you have a sense that something is going to happen out of the ordinary, is it because your mind is calculating the odds and has already come to the conclusion, based on its calculations, that it is time for something to occur?

It has been said that the human mind is the greatest computer ever. Wouldn�t it be logical that it would be able to predetermine when an event is going to occur in your life based off of previous experiences?

I have had many precognitive experiences in my life. I am not a doubter in regards to the ability. But yet, I still find that I search for a logical answer to explain what is occurring. And as some people have the ability, and some do not, the rate at which your brain evolves and is able to process information would seem like a viable answer to why some people do and some do not.

Some more info:


For years scientists thought most brain development stopped after a "critical period" in the first few years of life. Recent research on monkeys and other animals shows that the brain continually and dynamically reorganizes itself, even in adulthood. This finding helps explain how learning occurs and may lead to ways of improving recovery from learning disabilities, stroke, and other brain disorders through drug treatments or special "brain exercises."
Scientists also found that many brain regions' functions were organized differently every time they were examined. This happened even in brain areas unaffected by experiments. Changes in organization also followed limited damage to nerves for vision and hearing. This suggested that all brain areas continually adapt to changing signals.


As a processor of information the brain is extraordinarily fast. It can, for instance, receive the visual image of a person's face in a few hundredths of a second; analyze its many details in a quarter of a second. Then, in less than a second, it can synthesize all the information into a single whole: by creating a conscious three-dimensional full-color experience of the face, recognizing this face out of thousands of others recorded in memory - even though the face may never have been seen before in this position, with this lighting, in these surroundings, or with this expression on it - and recalling from memory details about the person and numerous ideas, associations and images associated with the person.
In terms of its complexity and versatility, the human brain far surpasses any computer on earth. Computers, it is true, may be very fast at mathematical calculations and step-by-step processes, but only in an inflexible, pre-programmed way, and these represent only a small part of the brain's capabilities. The whole of the world's telephone system is equivalent to only about one gram of your brain - a piece the size of a pea! Whereas the brain can recognize a face in much less than a second, there is no computing network in the world that could do the same.
Because we live in such a fast paced world, I could see the need for our minds to be as fast paced as well. Even to the extent as being able to predict the future based off the presents events.

Sorry for the long post... This was info I was collecting and don't have the original site links.

B56

Yes, pre-cogs are evolved. All humans with above average IQ's can and do predict the future. It's actually a function of the memory combined with the processing speed (regulated by salts, lipids, and other factors more complex) of the frontal cortex. People with persistent pre-cognition would be evolutionarily speaking more likely to survive and have a larger number of average offspring. Hence, the first pre-cog did well reproductively speaking, and since his children had a higher chance of being pre-cog than the neighboring cavemans kids, yadda yadda.

Predicting the future is as simple (or as impossible) as understanding, consciously or unconciously, the factors that GUARANTEE or DISALLOW a possible future from taking place. The larger the number of factors, the longer and harder our brains have to work to get an answer, and the more likely it is that the answer we get will be wrong. Those people will very high IQ's can stand a better chance, because, like good chess players can attest, it takes a sharp mind to analyze and cross reference large sets (number of different possibilities).

An example of an easy prediction: Will my girlfriend come home from work tonight? My prediction is yes and was made using a combination of factors such as -- Work schedule, mood, time of day, chance of criminal occurence such as kidnapping, murder, etc., chance of astrological event, car crash, nuclear attack, etc., etc..

An example of a hard prediction: Will WW3 break out tommorow? My prediction is no, but I took the easy way out and guessed. To actually predict this, would amount to the largest data gathering excercise in the history of human endeavor. The number of factors involved is truly staggering, which is why forums such as ATS have such a valuable place in the world. We are, essentially, a coven of fortune tellers and doomsayers from across the world, comparing notes.

Hope I wasn't too off topic, but I found the threat interesting, looking forward to seeing other responses on the idea of prediction, and how that could relate to evolution of the human animal.

Logically the answer is YES.

A human can react to the environment by memorizing the most possible things to occur in life, and he can actually expect that phone call at night from a friend, or a family member. This is quite normal, if your mom calls you usually at six, you get to the point that your mom is about to call you. If not, you won't memorize that event. Quite simple. This is just the logical way a human mind thinks, if you care for someone, you expect him to do things for you. If he cares for you, he will know what you expect.

Isn't it simple? Nothing unusual about that.

Originally posted by WyrdeOne
Yes, pre-cogs are evolved. All humans with above average IQ's can and do predict the future. It's actually a function of the memory combined with the processing speed (regulated by salts, lipids, and other factors more complex) of the frontal cortex. People with persistent pre-cognition would be evolutionarily speaking more likely to survive and have a larger number of average offspring. Hence, the first pre-cog did well reproductively speaking, and since his children had a higher chance of being pre-cog than the neighboring cavemans kids, yadda yadda.

It has nothing to do with predictions, or "calculating future". Nobody will "see" the future, only will expect what supposed to happen. But again: it is only far fetched, because most people don't notice those factors, what's not supposed to happen. This is called optimism, and those with the lowest IQ are capable for that.

The premonitions i have had are about things that I couldn't know would occur. The most recent one was about a week ago I had a premonition of my boss comming into my work, Just saw him walking in to my store and had the feeling that something bad was going to occur.

This week, my boss walks into my store, exactly as I had saw it, and announces that I am going to be relocated to another store to help fix challenges it has.

More of things that are detrimental to my life. Or huge life changes. I guess I wasn't coherent enough in my first post.

Anyways, i was more looking along the lines of the above example. Would the mind be able to come to a conclusion on that before it actually happened?

Originally posted by blend56
Anyways, i was more looking along the lines of the above example. Would the mind be able to come to a conclusion on that before it actually happened?

Of course. Since usually YOU decide what you want, and what you don't. This decision is usually already made, but you are not yet aware of it. Most people just keep thinking on a little thing for long, and they don't realize that they have already finalized their actions. In reality the most important rule is to keep every thoughts as simple as possible. More complications can disturb the mind, and no clear thinking is possible.

You know: A fool will loose tomorrow reaching back for yesterday

As to the thread topic.... a theory I came up with 5 years ago......nice to see someone else on a similar mind frame; Of course the mind is capable of such calculation as many people don't factor in the subtle nuances of memory(anxiety associated, details of surrounding environment, etc.,)though the subconscious most assuredly does....

Originally posted by Vertu

Originally posted by blend56
You know: A fool will loose tomorrow reaching back for yesterday

As to the quote.....history repeats to the unaware; all factors must be considered by the inclined.

You are confusing extrapolation as precognition. They are not the same. Precognition is where an event is known in the future intuitively without having access to the information suggesting a paranormal mechanism. To illustrate the differences:

An extrapolation would be trying to predict future events in stock markets by analysing trends.

A precognition woulld be predicting or pinpoint an event in the future with accuracy that is beyond what guessing would allow. For example, predicting a plane attack on 9/11 on WTC.

As many mathematicans will hold it is impossible to predict the future with any accuracy. This is because there is a chaos of infinite variables to compute. However, to state it is "impossible" is an exercise in ignorance.
As recent mathematical theorems have proven there is order in the apparent randomness of the universe. The Fibonacci numbers and the Golden section for instance.

So, the future can indeed be predicted by mathematical extrapolation with some accuracy. However, to know, we must know innumerable variables that could only be computed with a quantum computer.

However, suppose that the mind, which probably is a quantum computer, had access to all this information unconsciously, then it would be able to compute it and predict an event in the future. So while it is still mathematical progression there is still a paranormal mechanism involved.

In reality all quantum events, a sequence of which, we call time, already exist. We simply observe them in a particular order. This order itself is based on the collective consciousness of our species. As long as our collective consciousness is static, the order remains the same, and what follows is a logical progression that can be predicted.

Then like a slideshow of events projected onto a screen, we observe each event at a certain speed(the speed of time) and with a certain frame of reference. To illustrate: suppose we observe time at one event per earth second.

Now suppose we had a wider frame of reference, where we could see two events per earth second. This would means we would know the next event at the exact moment we know the second event. However, as we can only process one bit of information at a time, we would only observe the second event. This means we would know the second event before knowing the first event. So the more we widen the frame of reference the further events we can know in advance. At 200 events per earth second, we would know the 200th event before knowing the first event. That's precognition. Now wheres my Nobel prize?

[edit on 25-12-2004 by Indigo_Child]

Extrapolation and Prediction

To extrapolate is to infer something that is unknown from something that is known.

To predict is to tell in advance, usually on the basis of facts

You don't get a nobel prize, they won't give those to individuals who don't own a dictionary.

To extrapolate is to infer something that is unknown from something that is known.

To predict is to tell in advance, usually on the basis of facts

So "telling in advance on the basis of facts" is not the same as "infering something unknown from something that is known" You just shot yourself in your foot.

Now I am going to shoot you in your other foot:

predict: To foretell something; prophesy.
extrapolate: gain knowledge of (an area not known or experienced) by extrapolating

You may have a dictionary but it's evident you don't read it all. If you have a point to make, there are more civil ways of doing it. If you want to a make a fool out of yourself there are more dramatic ways of doing it.

[edit on 25-12-2004 by Indigo_Child]

Keep the points straight, o' shooter of many feet.

"An extrapolation would be trying to predict future events in stock markets by analysing trends."

"A precognition woulld be predicting or pinpoint an event in the future with accuracy that is beyond what guessing would allow. For example, predicting a plane attack on 9/11 on WTC."


I was making the point that prediction and extrapolation were the same, countering your earlier point that they were not the same. You were trying, at the time, and now, to confuse with lengthy linguistics. But you did succeed in making my point stronger, bad debate move. For shame.

"You may have a dictionary but it's evident you don't read it all. If you have a point to make, there are more civil ways of doing it. If you want to a make a fool out of yourself there are more dramatic ways of doing it."

I reply:
Bravo! At least you admit I could be a more flagrant fool. For example, I could unleash my full powers of prediction and go around spreading insidious tomfoolery about this or that. Instead, I restrain myself and speak on what I know.

What I know, I'll say again. The human brain is a very special computer, with a program call 'Survival' installed. We are exemplary in many ways, including our ability to social engineer, choose mates, murder, endure, and adapt. The future will either be very bright or very dim for us, depending on whether or not a large percentage of people 'wake up' in the next few years. It's entirely possible that the entirety of the species is psychic to varying degrees, but more likely, we'll begin to see the emergence of a psychic 'class' amongst men.

::Sigh::More strife is surely on the way regardless what happens. Humans are engineered to make life tough on themselves, and apparently the planet, because it increases the stress factor that adds to evolution. You seem to think in terms of the supernatural, but this term mystifies me. Is something super simply because we don't understand it? It's all natural my friend, it all comes from nature.

I was making the point that prediction and extrapolation were the same, countering your earlier point that they were not the same. You were trying, at the time, and now, to confuse with lengthy linguistics. But you did succeed in making my point stronger, bad debate move. For shame.

There is no debate. I never said prediction and extrapolation were different. I said precognition is different from extrapolation.

What I know, I'll say again. The human brain is a very special computer, with a program call 'Survival' installed. We are exemplary in many ways, including our ability to social engineer, choose mates, murder, endure, and adapt. The future will either be very bright or very dim for us, depending on whether or not a large percentage of people 'wake up' in the next few years. It's entirely possible that the entirety of the species is psychic to varying degrees, but more likely, we'll begin to see the emergence of a psychic 'class' amongst men.

::Sigh::More strife is surely on the way regardless what happens. Humans are engineered to make life tough on themselves, and apparently the planet, because it increases the stress factor that adds to evolution. You seem to think in terms of the supernatural, but this term mystifies me. Is something super simply because we don't understand it? It's all natural my friend, it all comes from nature.

I don't actually know what we are debating about. Paranormal just means that it is beyond our comprehension and what we consider scientifically normal. I never used the term supernatural, but as you have, it can mean the same as paranormal.

Precognition is paranormal, as in beyond our comprehension and what we can consider scientifically normal. As are all psychic phenomena.

[edit on 25-12-2004 by Indigo_Child]

Ok, extrapolation and precognition ARE different.

Extrapolation involves analysing historic data and forming a theory based on the analysis which states the most probable outcome.

Precognition,states a FACT (not this MIGHT happen, precognition is basically stating "this WILL happen") and is not based on historical data. It is more of a gut instinct sort of thing.

I think what you're getting confused with is the fact you can sometimes extrapolate enough data to determine a likely event, OR you can predict the same likely event, based on nothing but your own gut instinct. The first example is extrapolation, the second is precognition.

LordGoofus
You posted your opinion, which is valid, but I'm arguing denotation, not conotation. The dictionary disagrees, the almighty dictionary is displeased.

Indigo
We're arguing over whether precognition and extrapolation are the same thing. You originally said they weren't, I disagreed in a way that made it seem as though I agreed, then I clarified, and I think it's your turn. I might have missed a volley. Should we be arguing, no, probably not. I think it's just semantics at this point.

On another element of this thread - The quantum mind
If the mind exists, as all things do, on multiple levels, does information leak from one level to another? This would account for things like pre-cog, remote viewing, past life regression, etc.

By what vehicle is the leak transmitted? How does the impression of a thought move from the ether into a pattern of electricity that can be perceived as thought? Is there a semi-permeable barrier between dimensions, and if so, what can cross freely? Probably everything, right?

Thoughts on this, quantum inspired or conventional?

i like the quantam model. the leaks could be carrying some sort of information. coded as light, and intepreted as thought. emotion and language perhaps then initate a physical response.

whatever the variables are, the process is probably peppered with barriers of one sort or another.

the ease at which the information [a constant?] makes the trip, the stronger the esp?

We're arguing over whether precognition and extrapolation are the same thing. You originally said they weren't, I disagreed in a way that made it seem as though I agreed, then I clarified, and I think it's your turn. I might have missed a volley. Should we be arguing, no, probably not. I think it's just semantics at this point.

Precognition is not the same as extrapolation.

Precognition in this context is knowledge of an event prior to it's occurence through psychic ability. It's intuitive - as in you just know it. Precognitions are often experienced through visions and dreams.

On another element of this thread - The quantum mind
If the mind exists, as all things do, on multiple levels, does information leak from one level to another? This would account for things like pre-cog, remote viewing, past life regression, etc.

By what vehicle is the leak transmitted? How does the impression of a thought move from the ether into a pattern of electricity that can be perceived as thought? Is there a semi-permeable barrier between dimensions, and if so, what can cross freely? Probably everything, right?

Thoughts on this, quantum inspired or conventional?

There is no "leak" of information. Your being, or soul if you may, is multidimensional, like the quantum superpositioning effect, it exists everywhere at the same instance. You may call this your subspace mind. In subspace there is no space or time, all quantum events exist as one. You receive this information from subspace all the time. It is part of your unconscious mind. Your conscious mind is only a tip of an iceberg. This is why most precognitions are experieced in dreams, because at this moment your logical/left brain cannot interfere.

That is what precognition is, it is simply receiving the information that has always been there. We are doing it all the time without being conscious of it, such as moments of inspiration. That is why they are sometimes called revelations. This is also why meditation is sometimes called remeberance.

[edit on 25-12-2004 by Indigo_Child]

Baaron

Right, there have to be barriers of one kind or another all over, because if they weren't there all the dimensions would flatten, right? There has to be a separation to denote different entities, but at the same time, that separation has to be so minute as to allow two halves of the same object to exist both in the same place and in different places, while at the same time exhibiting the behavior of multiple states of matter, and allowing reflexive behavior. Like tapping a joint, if we whack one side (face) of a quantum particle, the other side reacts even it wasn't in proximity.

The strength of precognition could be measurable by the density of singular 'thought transmitters' existing both inside your mind and elsewhere on the planet. This may be one element of the long speculated after ancestral knowledge.

Time is more like a three dimensional construct than a line, when considered through the lens of quantum theory. As such, pre-cog could be shortened to cog. That's assuming that quantum dynamics affect ESP. I would guess they do. There seems to be some evidence supporting that. There is also a lot of conjecture.

I'm very interested though, in keeping this post alive and seeing some more discussion on the nature of thought, and how it relates to recent discoveries in quantum mechanics/physics.

:

in the context of a compartment model there are sinks and flows. just wondering how applicable such a model is to the quantum world...

....was thinking that perhaps the ancestral knowledge or noosphere is just a compartment. where other dimensions or massive objects are similar components of the model. i haven;t thought this out yet, but it would be nice to describe it as such.

....the media is the message, wondering if the information we end up with as thought, is like a chain reaction of particles [joint tapping] or does the information retain a unique thread the whole time it moves?





[edit on 25/12/2004 by baaronhaile]

Indigo

Walking in the door to your house, you see a lamp turned over, and you assume robbery. Extrapolation, no?

Walking in the door to your house, you see a lamp turned over, and you see your wife come out of the next room and proceede to right the lamp, before the event takes place. Pre-cognitive or extrapolation? Could be either right? The lines are too blurred IMO to even be bothered arguing about.

If the brain can extrapolate and solve equations with one or two missing variables, it's capable of working with larger problems, it just takes more time, and the results are presented with a degree of uncertainty hardwired. In other words - your brain knows much that it doesn't tell you simply because opening a topic up to rational thought, dissection by the conscious, doesn't aid survival in any way that the subconcious knowledge hasn't already. Predictions and extrapolations are a survival mechanism best left hidden, to assure maximum effectiveness. Predictions don't do much good if they're revealed to the conscious and discarded because of morality, or another similar 'human' fallacy.

I think sometimes there are 'leaks' between realms of thought. I think this is inevitable if there are thoughts crossing the other way, which there most certainly are. That is to say, if things can be subverted, they can also rise up.

baaron
The compartment model is probably evidenced in the quantum world, there are similarities between all systems. A solar system looks and acts much like an atom. The sinks and flows as you say, would serve as anchors to a degree, would they not? Tethers, alternating current producing attraction, gravity well style.

In Bester's novel "The Stars my Destination" he talks about 'Jaunting' (quantum teleportation). It's my favorite Sci-Fi novel and raises tons of questions, many of which have been adressed in this post, and others on ATS. I think it's worth a read for anyone interested in the physics of energy and thought.

Wow... heck, now we are argueing about the meanings of four simple words? Now everyone please look up the same dictionary, and see the meanings yourself?? Personally I'm too lazy to do that, and I don't even buy into most of the theories accepted about it.

I believe, that prediction does not exist (not even in today's human mind), while all those other junk may surely exist, or some advanced brain capabilities reach near to it (whether consciously or unconsciously).

Personally i strongly think, that it's always possible to calculate the near future by observing the circumstances, but most people are not aware of that. That's how far the human mind can go, and it should be the capability of any normal human.