Stanton Friedman Debunks Bob Lazar

Guyfriday

gariac
The trouble is no engine can really be converted to run on hydrogen due to how it causes metal to become brittle. Maybe Lazar was asleep that day in his MIT material science class. You need to build an engine to burn hydrogen.

hydrogen

Well unless you have some element 115 laying around. ;-)

Explain?

From your link:

Hydrogen embrittlement is the process by which various metals, most importantly high-strength steel, become brittle and fracture following exposure to hydrogen. Hydrogen embrittlement is often the result of unintentional introduction of hydrogen into susceptible metals during forming or finishing operations and increases cracking in the material. This phenomenon was first described in 1875.[1]

The bolded point was done by me. The issue doesn't happen just because hydrogen is in conduct, but rather happens due to hydrogen is infused with the metal during treatment (like chroming).

Maybe you can explain this issue better.

OK, it turns out the Corvette in the old S-4 video he peddled was not hydrogen powered, but later he claimed to have a hydrogen powered Corvette. Hence the confusion.

I don't know how his new hydrogen powered corvette works, mostly because I don't want to waste my time reading anything from Bob Lazar.

Regarding hydrogen embriittlement, hydrogen is reactive and makes the metal brittle. If you are burning hydrogen, then you absolutely have the gas in contact with metal. That is why we don't have the hydrogen highway that we were promised a decade ago. Now if you use hydrogen in a fuel cell to make electricity, then the embrittlement isn't an issue. I had one class in material science as part of my undergraduate degree a few decades ago, so I really can't explain the science.

But ultimately, hydrogen is a more like a storage device than a fuel. That is, you don't find a lot of elemental hydrogen in nature, but rather you find it in compounds. [In that respect, it is very plentiful.] Thus you need a refining process to separate out the hydrogen, and that takes energy. Hopefully it takes less energy to produce than you get when you burn it. [The gurus of such separation is the company Air Products.]

If you look at oil and gasoline, those guys knew what they were doing back then. Gasoline is really handy. It doesn't need to be cooled or stored under pressure. You just put it in a tank, pump it, vaporize it, ignite it, and you have motion. The oil cracking process does require energy, but you get more out than you put in.

There is a reason we have gas and diesel cars. The alternatives are more difficult. The only real alternative is LNG, which you find used in delivery fleets since there isn't much of an interstate fuel infrastructure. Electric cars require the power to be generated by some other means, mostly fossil fuels or nuclear, with a small percentage of energy produced from renewables.

FosterVS

Credentials are a "ancilliary" (ancillary?) issue?
Please. In Lazars case they would have to be. He HAS NONE.
No wait... some kind of electronics course at a community college.
A number of CREDENTIALLED physicists have already dismissed Lazar's science as gobbledygook.
Here is an article from mid-2013 where Lazar is STILL trying to present himself as a physicist.
Please tell me how you become a physicist without any credentials? By selling fireworks components and novelty items over the internet?
www.freep.com...

edit on 27-1-2014 by FosterVS because: (no reason given)

as i said earlier they are not my primary concern. this is because what Lazar said about the science is testable while the credentials can be muck raked. As to credentialed scientists. scientists are famous for their ability to often be wrong. i have already laid out a powerful case for Lazar's science claims. if he was right his credentials do not matter.

if your scientists said there was no element 115 they were wrong. if they said no stable isotope was found they would be leaving out the fact that stable atoms were not looked for in the experiments. If they believe there cannot be a stable isotope of element 115 they may be right but they also may be very wrong because element 115 was more stable the heavier it was. if they said gravity and the strong force are not related they were wrong.

gariac

FosterVS

Guyfriday
reply to post by FosterVS

 

The Corvette was modified to drive off of Hydrogen gas. It was shown in one of the videos that used to be on the United Nuclear site.

The Corvette "supposedly" modified to run on hydrogen is/was red.
8:18 "This is a prototype, so..."
www.youtube.com...

The trouble is no engine can really be converted to run on hydrogen due to how it causes metal to become brittle. Maybe Lazar was asleep that day in his MIT material science class. You need to build an engine to burn hydrogen.

hydrogen

Well unless you have some element 115 laying around. ;-)

actually engines are easily converted to run on hydrogen. but running hydrogen in an engine not designed from the ground up to run on hydrogen greatly shortens the engine life. you can expect it to wear out in about 2 to three years in most cases. hydrogen conversion kits are available in the after market though. they aren't all that special. the problem other than wear and tear is that your per fuel tank range sucks worse than a first generation electric car.

Questions...always questions...

How did Bob Lazar get a job at Los Alamos? He did work there.
How did Bob Lazar build a rocket car? he did, it was in the paper there. He's genius level smart.
How did Bob Lazar create a business that sells supplies to government agencies? He has and does to this day...or at least recently.
How did Bob Lazar know where the cafeteria was inside Area 51? He did. Drew a map and it was confirmed.
How did he know the date and time of a test flight of a top secret aircraft from Area 51? he did and it was reported on and documented by George Knapp an award winning reporter here in Las Vegas.
How did Bob Lazar know about that element before it was invented or discovered recently? He knew about it and talked about it and then strangely enough. Scientists just discovered it.

See...there are some very interesting questions and facts that defy the "He's full of crap" "he's a liar" "hes' been debunked" propaganda.

Maybe there are holes and some stuff doesn't add up and he did lie and...but in the end so what? There is too much stuff that does lead to even more questions with Bob Lazar. He knows stuff, he's been part of a disinfo campaign, he's connected to people and government agencies that he shouldn't be, he's been inside these places that he shouldn't have been. If you are truly denying ignorance you'll start following these questions and see where they lead you...and not parrot the pseudo skeptic rhetoric with no basis in reality.

i wouldn't worry about it too much. the science he talked about is vindicated in almost every particular. the other stuff is a distraction. i would not care if he whipped off a latex mask and he was secretly stephen speilberg's dimunitive E.T walking on his own testicles all this time. it would have nothing to do with whether the science he talked about is valid or not.

reply to post by amazing


He didn't have to know the flight times, I could replicate what he did with a LED light and a video camera easily. In the video it shows a light darting around the sky, you can do that with a stationary light by moving the camera around since there's no reference points.

Why didn't Bob sneak a camera in and take a snap of the UFO's but he could sneak a lump of element 115 out of the top secret facility lol give me a break..

reply to post by amazing

Questions...always questions... How did Bob Lazar get a job at Los Alamos?

No problem. He was not a direct hire but on contract. He used Kirk Mayer to get the job. They don't exist anymore, but here is an old link from the LA Times showing such an agency existed:
Kirk Mayer

How did Bob Lazar build a rocket car? he did, it was in the paper there. He's genius level smart.

He got the jet engine and put it in the car. If he designed a jet engine himself, I would consider him smart. People have put rockets and jet engines in cars before. Actually the way Lazar did it, he needed both the gas and jet engine.
Jet engine in VW

w did Bob Lazar create a business that sells supplies to government agencies? He has and does to this day...or at least recently.

How does anyone start a business. You file a fictitious name with the county, they check that it is unique, and off you go. Lazar's business was not strictly to the government. Anyone can buy from him. If you want to sell to the government, you read this website:
FBO.gov

How did Bob Lazar know where the cafeteria was inside Area 51? He did. Drew a map and it was confirmed.

The way the story goes, he confirmed the color of the interior walls of the cafeteria. But it is not impossible to find ex-Groom Lake employees or contractors. I won't name names, but there are people on ATS who have been to the base. The color of the walls is not a secret, so they could divulge that.

How did he know the date and time of a test flight of a top secret aircraft from Area 51? he did and it was reported on and documented by George Knapp an award winning reporter here in Las Vegas.

We don't know if Lazar ever saw a test. He saw lights in the sky. Have you ever been to the border of Groom Lake. Big hint: plenty of lights in the sky thanks to flares from Nellis. Red Flag and NWS exercise time schedules are not a secret.

How did Bob Lazar know about that element before it was invented or discovered recently? He knew about it and talked about it and then strangely enough. Scientists just discovered it.

The table of elements is ...well...elementary. There are papers predicting elements published all the time. Nothing really clever in picking element 115, well other than it makes a better story. You do realize you can determine properties of elements just based on the outer shell?

OK, Lazar totally debunked. Nothing to see here. Move along .... move along.

thats not a debunking. debunking would require proving that he in fact did the things the way you said he did. i can claim someone that the community respects is a secret cannibal with a torture dungeon under their house. But if they aren't; well then they aren't. claiming something happened a certain way is not the same thing as proving that alternative is true.

project grudge did that type of debunking. their explanations were often simply impossible in their own right. they may have been right about UFOs being explainable but used dishonest or incompetent claims of their own to discredit them. swamp gas and all that. that is not debunking. my standards for me to consider something debunked is the opposing proposal has stronger evidence for it than the subject being debunked.

frankly until someone disproves the science Lazar cannot be debunked.

element 115 stable isotope has to be definitively ruled out. the Strong force quantum gravity scientists have to be refuted and their paper retracted. the claim that large stars and certain types of binary synthesize heavy elements must be disproven.

i don't care if Lazar got His PHD from a crackerjack box. its a side issue. i don't care if he drives unicorn fart powered yugo.

reply to post by stormbringer1701


You have it backwards. You have to prove everything Bob Lazar said is true. He has a piece of element 115. All he has to do is hand a sample to a lab and the case would be closed.

It had been decades. He hasn't produced one bit of physical evidence to prove his case.

Bob was a photo tech at LANL. He had a photo lab in Vegas. That is about all that is true.

reply to post by stormbringer1701


That's the beauty of it, Lazar would have known that you can't prove the existence of a stable isotope of 115 so it would be difficult to prove it.

It also works the other way, Lazar could prove his theories as he claims to have element 115 that he stole from S-4..

He's the one that needs to prove it and IMO he can't and never will be able to because his story is BS.

I'm fairly certain I could also find out the color of the walls in the cafeteria at Area 51 if i wanted to, so that doesn't make Lazar any more credible than the next person..

reply to post by gariac


Did you get your paycheck from Dennis this week? He's a bit slow with mine

I dunno how Bob ever put up with him.

gariac
reply to post by stormbringer1701

 

You have it backwards. You have to prove everything Bob Lazar said is true. He has a piece of element 115. All he has to do is hand a sample to a lab and the case would be closed.

It had been decades. He hasn't produced one bit of physical evidence to prove his case.

Bob was a photo tech at LANL. He had a photo lab in Vegas. That is about all that is true.

oh no i don't. i only have to prove that his science was plausible or proven. i have done so. see; no matter how one views issues like his ability as a gearhead or whether he performs personal hygiene to everyone's satisfaction or not. none of that has any bearing on the science theories he put forward. on the other hand the articles and other cites i provided prove his science was real or highly plausible.

i don't have to prove everything he said was true. most of it has nothing to do with whether the core of his claim about anti-gravity is real or not.

Stealthbomber
reply to post by stormbringer1701

 

That's the beauty of it, Lazar would have known that you can't prove the existence of a stable isotope of 115 so it would be difficult to prove it.

It also works the other way, Lazar could prove his theories as he claims to have element 115 that he stole from S-4..

He's the one that needs to prove it and IMO he can't and never will be able to because his story is BS.

I'm fairly certain I could also find out the color of the walls in the cafeteria at Area 51 if i wanted to, so that doesn't make Lazar any more credible than the next person..

well the LLNL doctor said that they could not detect stable atoms because the way you do nuclear synthesis science is to look for decay chains. stable atoms have no decay chains. so they wouldn't see it with that set up. but i imagine if you were looking for stable atoms in an experiment it would be easy enough to find them. so i cannot agree with your first assertion.

as to your second assertion: Well his phrasing was peculiar i will give you that. but if his story were true fear of incarceration or assassination could lead you to dispose of something like that if you were paranoid and panicking over the stress of it all. so that is not definitive evidence of fraud. at least in my opinion. i don't know how i would act under those circumstances.

if i were looking to find a few atoms i would attempt to first ensure they were ionized. then i'd surround the impact area with and electrical or magnetic field designed to guide the ions into an ion trap where I could probe the atoms at leisure. I'd probably determine their mass, determine their emission spectra, probe the nucleus with low energy photons to prevent accidental fission but allowing nucleonic shell structure analysis. stuff like that. I'd perform the analysis after the known decay rates of the unstable isotopes had elapsed. I might catch additional unstable isotopes that way too. hopefully about ten minutes (or whatever the trap dwell time is before stuff starts to escape it) later I would have preliminary evidence of a stable isotope.

That's not what the element 115 synthesis team was after. So they didn't do that.

Additionally, I am not even sure their choice of target and calcium isotope ion has enough neutrons to produce the proposed potential stable isotopes. if not i would have to alter their choices of target, colliding ions speed incident angle and so forth. maybe try to add neutrons by a simultaneous S mode approach as well. If i recall correctly Lazar was shooting for a specific of neutrons which he claimed would result in the alleged stable form.

reply to post by stormbringer1701


Well if you had govt agents trying to kill you then why wouldn't you show the world that what you have is true? Once it's out it's out sort of like what snowmen did, there's not much they can do after he's already been proven to be right.

stormbringer1701
if i were looking to find a few atoms i would attempt to first ensure they were ionized. then i'd surround the impact area with and electrical or magnetic field designed to guide the ions into an ion trap where I could probe the atoms at leisure. I'd probably determine their mass, determine their emission spectra, probe the nucleus with low energy photons to prevent accidental fission but allowing nucleonic shell structure analysis. stuff like that. I'd perform the analysis after the known decay rates of the unstable isotopes had elapsed. I might catch additional unstable isotopes that way too. hopefully about ten minutes (or whatever the trap dwell time is before stuff starts to escape it) later I would have preliminary evidence of a stable isotope.

That's not what the element 115 synthesis team was after. So they didn't do that.

edit on 28-1-2014 by stormbringer1701 because: the usual

You could of just simply said mass spectrometry

Get me some element 115 and il do it for you :p


Anyway its impossible to add neutrons. So your stuck with the isotopes of 115. Probably why lazar choose the element cause a stable version wonr be made for a long long time.

Plus your forgetting even if 115 exists and glouns do what they do. Doesnt mean anti gravity exists too.

crazyewok


You could of just simply said mass spectrometry

Get me some element 115 and il do it for you :p




plus your forgetting even if 115 exists and glouns do what they do. Doesnt mean anti gravity exists too.

edit on 28-1-2014 by crazyewok because: (no reason given)

well i asked some dude for the NSN for element 115. so we'll see if i can order some. but other than tying up the element 115 angle of Lazar's story Elememnt 115 isn't really needed for the final thing needed to validate his science claims WRT gravity/antigravity. actually Good old 20 dollar a pound Bismuth should do.

and as to the gluon thing. well i spent quite a few years thinking Lazar was full of it on that too. but my opinion changed with the publication of that paper i have been raving about. SLAC Stanford level scientists making the same claim about gluons that Lazar did that puts in in a far steadier and brighter light.

it only remains to align a mass of bismuth nuclei in the same direction and attempt various ways of interacting with the alleged exposed gluon field in the stretched out nucleonics of that less rare element. not that i actually have any sort of scientific guidance on how to do it.

oh hey i don't think it's impossible to add neutrons! i have read pretty well authenticated stories in the mainstream about a layman doing it with a cobbled neutron source and some stuff to slow the beam down. he enriched uranium with it. it was all over the news at the time. he got into a lot of trouble and he irradiated himself in the process.

check this out: harpers.org...

he actually did succeed in adding neutrons. it's actually a pretty frightening development because it means you don't need tons of centrifuges to enrich uranium with all the proliferation nightmares that implies.