Why Zimmerman is Guilty

reply to post by Willtell


I see what you are saying but the jury had no choice because their hands were tied by the courts orders. The NRA and Walmart lobbied for and pushed for the "Stand your ground bill" in Florida. Walmart wanted it because they are the largest seller of bullets in the U.S.-if I'm not mistaken, and more bullets sold means more guns sold, which makes the NRA happy. All I'm hearing here on ATS is..." Zimmerman did the right thing" and "he's a hero who defended himself..." Zimmerman tempted fate because he wanted someone to give him an excuse to commit his evil act; unfortunately Trayvon gave him that "excuse." I'm sure that ZImmerman saw that Trayvon was unarmed; he knew he had brought a gun to a fist-fight.

I do agree that crime and violence is out of control and something needs to be done about it, and I think the jury made its decision to send a message to that end. However, this is wrong and it sends the wrong message to other would-be vigilantes like Zimmerman. This is so wrong in so many ways that I can't begin to point them all out.

Originally posted by wwiilliiaamm
The problem is with the law as written.....

self-defense in the jury instructions... did he feel afraid for his life when he pulled the trigger?..... not five minutes before not two minutes before. etc. when he pulled the trigger.

the instructions are was got him off.

He is a killer who because of the system is free. There are many examples of guilty going free. He is just one more.

Think again.
It was Trayvon (in his mind) not Zimmerman who was under attack.

Trayvon was the initial victim (in his own mind) just as they are saying Zimmerman (in his own mind) was under threat.

How do we decide who is right and wrong?
Easy
Zimmerman started it; he (delusionaly) thought Trayvon was doing crime: so he stalked him and frightened him-- SUBJECTIVE TRUTH

Trayvon thought Zimmerman was stalking him: He was stalking him: OBJECTIVE TRUTH

Trayvon wins. But racism is powerful

The black boy is some kind of Superhuman monster

Originally posted by Xcalibur254
reply to post by Willtell

 

The reason Zimmerman is not guilty is because the entire situation you just outlined is based on hypotheticals and what ifs. The law of the land states that the accused is innocent unless they can be proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. There is no hard evidence to support anything you just said. If there were the prosecution would have presented it at trial instead of relying on their emotion based case. As someone who could have cared less about this case I must say that based on the evidence presented a not guilty decision was the proper decision.

The hard evidence is the fact that he Zimmerman instilled great fear in a 17 year old boy.
So much fear THAT THE BOY ATTACKED HIM. STANDING HIS GROUND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

How would your son or daughter react to a strange man stalking them on a rainy night?

reply to post by Willtell


I think you miss my point. It doesn't matter that Zimmerman did all the things leading up to the fight. The law for the self defense ruling states... did you fear for your life at that moment...

yes, he stalked him, yes, he ignored the dispatch, etc.... he was wrong, but that doesn't matter to the law as written.

the jury didn't have to look at this... only the one second of the shot itself....

reply to post by Willtell


Why Zimmerman is Guilty


Because the Media and this Administration say so.


Do I win a free T-Shirt, or something?



(I know I got the answer right, BTW)

Originally posted by ThePublicEnemyNo1
Instead of coming across as asinine, I should say that the verdict is in and George Zimmerman was found not guilty. No matter how people may feel about the verdict...it is what it is.

The emotions surrounding this case are completely understandable, but the jury has spoken. The only thing folks can do that disagree with the verdict is attempt to change the laws.

I would warn however, what if it's you...what if you are threatened? I'm not saying who was right or wrong in this case as I was not there. But, if you feel the need to defend yourself with any weapon one day, you could become the next George Zimmerman.

Think about it!

edit on 7/15/13 by ThePublicEnemyNo1 because: (no reason given)

Do you know how ridiculous you sound?
I think you need to start thinking!
Zimmerman had a gun Trayvon had a bag of candy
Who would you rather be?

Another thing I wanted to add.

About two weeks ago my husband and my 14 year old son were held up and robbed at gunpoint in my husband's friend's driveway. For some reason, the robbers were looking for money. My son had 40 bucks on him and my husband had about 150 bucks on him. They laid my husband down at gunpoint and pointed a gun into the side of my son. My son told me he considered taking the gun away from one of the guys, but obviously he thought better of it and decided not to. He probably could have taken the gun...he was taught self defense by a real hero, my Dad, which included how to disarm someone.

I believe in guns, my son does as well, but my husband, he hates them. I was raised by an Vietnam Vet Army Green Beret...who first taught me how to shoot a gun at the age of five and how to fist fight (plus a host of other defenses I'd rather not mention). I don't know what would have happened if I would have been there with my family that day...but I do know one thing...one of those guys wouldn't have left the scene. In this situation a fist wouldn't have helped much.

I didn't tell this story to say that Martin or Zimmerman were right or wrong. I'm telling this story to ask that if it's you and you're legally armed..what the hell would you do?

This took place off of Crenshaw and Adams in Los Angeles...the area is not good by any standards. We live in the suburbs of Los Angeles, but are no strangers to criminal shenanigans...at least I'm not as I grew up in a neighborhood that was not "all good" and am very familiar with the criminal mindset. These idiots saw my husband and son driving a very nice car that was locked behind a gate...waited and ambushed them. It must have looked like an opportunity to them to rob the person driving the car.

They took what little change they had in their pockets and left. My husband got in the car and immediately followed them while on the phone with LAPD...told the police where he was and what happened and even described the car and crafty crooks that robbed them. They got caught within minutes

All I'm saying is that aside from whether some of us feel what Zimmerman did was right or wrong...what if it was you...what if you got clocked in the nose...what if you got jacked...what if?

What the hell would you do if you were armed?

Seriously think about that.

Originally posted by wwiilliiaamm
reply to post by Willtell

 

I think you miss my point. It doesn't matter that Zimmerman did all the things leading up to the fight. The law for the self defense ruling states... did you fear for your life at that moment...

yes, he stalked him, yes, he ignored the dispatch, etc.... he was wrong, but that doesn't matter to the law as written.

the jury didn't have to look at this... only the one second of the shot itself....

What about Trayvon’s fear?
Doesn’t a 17 year old black boy have fear too?

Originally posted by Willtell

Originally posted by ThePublicEnemyNo1
Instead of coming across as asinine, I should say that the verdict is in and George Zimmerman was found not guilty. No matter how people may feel about the verdict...it is what it is.

The emotions surrounding this case are completely understandable, but the jury has spoken. The only thing folks can do that disagree with the verdict is attempt to change the laws.

I would warn however, what if it's you...what if you are threatened? I'm not saying who was right or wrong in this case as I was not there. But, if you feel the need to defend yourself with any weapon one day, you could become the next George Zimmerman.

Think about it!

edit on 7/15/13 by ThePublicEnemyNo1 because: (no reason given)

Do you know how ridiculous you sound?
I think you need to start thinking!
Zimmerman had a gun Trayvon had a bag of candy
Who would you rather be?

I would rather be the person that understands the law, because clearly you are not that person. Not sure where you got your information from, or if you even watched any of the court proceedings, but the evidence shown did not back any of your assumptions or opinion.

reply to post by Willtell


of course, he was scared, afraid etc.

that is irrelevant to the court case.

he shouldn't have been killed. no question about it. He was in his neighborhood. etc. sadly, it doesn't matter to the exact question... did Zimmerman feel afraid the moment he pulled the trigger. if the answer is yes, then he gets off.

that is all that is needed. sadly.

reply to post by Willtell


I know how ridiculous it sounds when a gun shot goes off and I'm protecting myself or those around me. I also know that I have a human right to defend myself, home and family...period.

You need to wake up and put yourself in the shoes of someone who feels like their life is in danger.

It's easy to judge until it's you.

ETA
To add to my comment....I agree with the poster above. But, I will defend myself and family at all costs...you better believe that

Originally posted by ThePublicEnemyNo1
Another thing I wanted to add.

About two weeks ago my husband and my 14 year old son were held up and robbed at gunpoint in my husband's friend's driveway. For some reason, the robbers were looking for money. My son had 40 bucks on him and my husband had about 150 bucks on him. They laid my husband down at gunpoint and pointed a gun into the side of my son. My son told me he considered taking the gun away from one of the guys, but obviously he thought better of it and decided not to. He probably could have taken the gun...he was taught self defense by a real hero, my Dad, which included how to disarm someone.

I believe in guns, my son does as well, but my husband, he hates them. I was raised by an Vietnam Vet Army Green Beret...who first taught me how to shoot a gun at the age of five and how to fist fight (plus a host of other defenses I'd rather not mention). I don't know what would have happened if I would have been there with my family that day...but I do know one thing...one of those guys wouldn't have left the scene. In this situation a fist wouldn't have helped much.

I didn't tell this story to say that Martin or Zimmerman were right or wrong. I'm telling this story to ask that if it's you and you're legally armed..what the hell would you do?

This took place off of Crenshaw and Adams in Los Angeles...the area is not good by any standards. We live in the suburbs of Los Angeles, but are no strangers to criminal shenanigans...at least I'm not as I grew up in a neighborhood that was not "all good" and am very familiar with the criminal mindset. These idiots saw my husband and son driving a very nice car that was locked behind a gate...waited and ambushed them. It must have looked like an opportunity to them to rob the person driving the car.

They took what little change they had in their pockets and left. My husband got in the car and immediately followed them while on the phone with LAPD...told the police where he was and what happened and even described the car and crafty crooks that robbed them. They got caught within minutes

All I'm saying is that aside from whether some of us feel what Zimmerman did was right or wrong...what if it was you...what if you got clocked in the nose...what if you got jacked...what if?

What the hell would you do if you were armed?

Seriously think about that.

edit on 7/15/13 by ThePublicEnemyNo1 because: (no reason given)

I sympathize with you over this unfortunate incident and hope everyone is okay.
On this matter I am only trying to convince people of the illogical reasoning behind the stand your ground law as it applies to this case. Every case is unique and has its own story.

I am a firm believer in self defense but I think here people are forgetting that Trayvon likely felt as much threatened as Zimmerman who had the gun. Doesn’t Stand your ground apply to Trayvon.

What was Trayvon to do? He was on foot. Zimmerman had the gun and the car!

Maybe it was Trayvon who felt boxed in.

I think that there was as much evidence that Zimmerman started the fight by his actions and lies as Trayvon Martin.

The OP seems to like 'what ifs'.

What if.....
Trayvon was looking to burglarize a house that night?

There is evidence to say that he was a thief, you know.

reply to post by Willtell


while this last post is logical, it doesn't follow the jury instructions..


did he feel threatened when he pulled the trigger?


it is a poorly written law.

your argument is with the law and jury instructions,

Originally posted by wwiilliiaamm
reply to post by Willtell

 

of course, he was scared, afraid etc.

that is irrelevant to the court case.

he shouldn't have been killed. no question about it. He was in his neighborhood. etc. sadly, it doesn't matter to the exact question... did Zimmerman feel afraid the moment he pulled the trigger. if the answer is yes, then he gets off.

that is all that is needed. sadly.

That’s just not true. A woman was just put in jail for 20 years in Florida for shooting a warming shot at an abusive husband.

No, this stupid jury just didn’t want to give humanity to a black boy.

reply to post by Willtell


I clearly understand your point...moreover I agree with you to a degree. But how was Zimmerman to know Martin was just a kid.

The only thing Zimmerman could have done different IMO, was to identify himself and what his intent was. That would have taken seconds and probably would have alleviated what ultimately happened. When you own a gun legally, you have to take more precautions because you have a gun.

I personally think Zimmerman was reckless, but 2nd degree murder....I just don't see that, not even manslaughter. The evidence just wasn't there.

ETA
By the way, thank you for caring and yes, everyone is just fine

Originally posted by butcherguy
The OP seems to like 'what ifs'.

What if.....
Trayvon was looking to burglarize a house that night?

There is evidence to say that he was a thief, you know.

Oh really, produce this evidence.
This is not an if; there was testimony that Trayvon was afraid of Zimmerman stalking him.
Think about the fact that Trayvon, without a gun or car was just as much afraid of Zimmerman.

Originally posted by Willtell

No, this stupid jury just didn’t want to give humanity to a black boy.

Can I ask what relevance his skin color has to do with this incident? Every thread where I see someone trying to make a case against Zimmerman they always have to point out that this "poor black kid", or "innocent black teenager", or some other way to point out that he was black. Who cares what race he was, it doesn't make it any more or any less tragic! Glad I figured out your reasoning and agenda here.

reply to post by Willtell


the cases are different. the instructions are different, etc.

That case seems pretty bad also. from what I have read.

since it is different, save it for a different thread.

sadly, Martin is dead. His killer is free.

Originally posted by Willtell

Originally posted by butcherguy
The OP seems to like 'what ifs'.

What if.....
Trayvon was looking to burglarize a house that night?

There is evidence to say that he was a thief, you know.

Oh really, produce this evidence.
This is not an if; there was testimony that Trayvon was afraid of Zimmerman stalking him.
Think about the fact that Trayvon, without a gun or car was just as much afraid of Zimmerman.

I'm going to jump on your side in regards to the "thief" statement. I didn't hear any of that and I recorded and watched everyday of the trial.

Where was that evidence?