Are we all the same person?

If my soul were controlling all these other bodies, I'd kill my soul off.

Originally posted by ChaoticOrder

This is why empathy is such an important tool... we must try and understand how our actions make others feel. If all of us go about our lives with a completely self-serving attitude and treat others like crap, it may feel good right now to step all over people in order to earn a vast wealth, but we'd be creating a world where the majority of conscious observers are dealt the short end of the stick, increasing the probability that "I" get dealt a crappy card.

I agree, but not just because empathy helps the rest of the world.
Empathy helps the person who practices it.

reply to post by badgerprints

OK.
I got me.

No, you got it.

Thanks for the appeals to my co dependency but really, I am in recovery.

Lets cut to the chase. If we were one we wouldn't be having this conversation. We wouldn't need phones, the Internet or that screen 'we' need to look at to read this. You would already know what 'you are saying' (to paraphrase us)

Now, if you insist any further that we are one, I will have to go get an exorcism. And invite you.

Whats wrong with being just you? Oh, it's a morality thing. I get it. If there is no difference between people, then it follows there are no barriers, therefore we can do anything we want to each other. If it doesn't bother me then I can kill you and you wouldn't mind, right? Since I am only hurting myself? Serial killers must have thought this up.

Or is this rubbish an excuse for past deeds?

Originally posted by intrptr


Or is this rubbish an excuse for past deeds?

I don't actually believe it myself. It just seemed like an interesting premise with an simple concept and complex result that shows some cosmetic parallels with human behavior.

Is a conjectural discussion based upon a simple idea so offensive that you can only see it as rubbish and imply that I am making some excuse for something you think I shouldn't have done in the past?

Maybe, just maybe, you're taking this a bit too seriously for a "what if" discussion.
I mean, this forum is here for these type of conversations but isn't actually compulsory for any one who finds it offensive.

Wait a minute, did you say exorcism?
Oh yes.
Let's do that instead.

Originally posted by badgerprints

Originally posted by intrptr


Or is this rubbish an excuse for past deeds?

I don't actually believe it myself. It just seemed like an interesting premise with an simple concept and complex result that shows some cosmetic parallels with human behavior.

Is a conjectural discussion based upon a simple idea so offensive that you can only see it as rubbish and imply that I am making some excuse for something you think I shouldn't have done in the past?

Maybe, just maybe, you're taking this a bit too seriously for a "what if" discussion.
I mean, this forum is here for these type of conversations but isn't actually compulsory for any one who finds it offensive.

Ok sorry, got it. I was wondering when you would drop the robe. So I ratcheted it up a little. Enough was enough. Thanks for the stand down order. I'd follow Lee Marvin's Character in the Big Red One to hell and back. Thats partly why I was having trouble with you stance.

reply to post by badgerprints

Is a conjectural discussion based upon a simple idea so offensive that you can only see it as rubbish and imply that I am making some excuse for something you think I shouldn't have done in the past?

Maybe, just maybe, you're taking this a bit too seriously for a "what if" discussion.

lol... buuuuuuuuuuuurn.

Honestly though intrptr just try to open your mind for a moment... the subject of consciusness isn't as simple as you believe it to be.

Originally posted by ChaoticOrder

Honestly though intrptr just try to open your mind for a moment... the subject of consciusness isn't as simple as you believe it to be.

You guys really do take this stuff a bit too seriously.
I have no desire to lecture others on consciousness .

I'm more of a hands on, get things done type anyway.

Sometimes I just think too much and get others all riled up.

I believe the final line of my OP was, "Just a bit of cogitation for a quiet afternoon."

By the way, a bit of synchronicity, a friend bought me a video today. She dropped it off this evening and I just finished watching it.

It is "Cloud Atlas" a movie about reincarnated lives.

Originally posted by badgerprints

Originally posted by ChaoticOrder

Honestly though intrptr just try to open your mind for a moment... the subject of consciusness isn't as simple as you believe it to be.

You guys really do take this stuff a bit too seriously.

I was simply asking intrptr to open his/her mind as much as you have in order to contemplate this concept. intrptr has just rejected it outright and has done so in the most artificial way. I do take the theory very seriously though. For example take a look at some modern interpretations of quantum mechanics... the majority of them involve parallel universes and extra dimensions or they some how link the conscious observer into the equations, and physicists take these possibilities extremely seriously, and they argue over which of these insane ideas is the right one. The idea of a particle being in multiple place at one time, or travelling through time, or even virtual particles appearing spontaneously from the void and then disappearing back into it. These are accepted and common occurrences within the world of quantum mechanics.

Once you study physics enough you will come to understand that keeping an open mind is very important when it comes to a subject like this... because it's much more plausible than you may realize. Just because it sounds unlikely doesn't make it impossible. This is an abstract topic where the variables are virtually impossible to measure, it's not a "hands on" subject which can easily be verified. But just because something is hard to measure and hard to see doesn't mean it's not real. Dark matter is hard to measure and hard to see but we are 99% certain it is actually there and accounts for most of the mass in any given galaxy. Normal matter is virtually irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.

reply to post by badgerprints


In any great story there must first be opposites which is exactly why there is just that, otherwise it would be a pretty boring experience

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/e3c6c1d48d9a.gif[/atsimg]



The best thing is, you get to choose not just what to think but what to do whilst you are here. You are the star of your life and anything goes if you simply choose and do.

Originally posted by ChaoticOrder
[qFor example take a look at some modern interpretations of quantum mechanisms... the majority of them involve parallel universes and alternative dimensions or they some how link the conscious observer into the equations, and physicists take these possibilities extremely seriously. The idea of a particle being in multiple place at one time, or travelling through time, or even virtual particles appearing spontaneously from the void and then disappearing back into it. These are accepted and common occurrences within the world of quantum mechanics.

You know my favorite person EVER is Richard Feynman.
I read books on relativity, quantum mechanics and string theory but I just never got good enough at advanced mathematics to come close to really understanding it all.

I actually have a personal theory on multiple dimensions beyond the three that we as humans are physically capable of experiencing.

My feeling is that extraphysical dimensions are not stacked next to each other like slices of bread as is proposed by string theory. It is my belief that the initial three dimensions are at the center of a structure of dimensions that wrap around all and connect with each other like the chambers of a nautilus shell.
Each one being larger and more expansive than the last but all converging at one point thus allowing a common existence but not necessarily an identical one.

Sorry, rambling.


I don't really have anyone in my life that I can really discuss these esoteric subjects with but I still enjoy reading and thinking about them.

reply to post by badgerprints

Thought has crossed my mind. The beauty of not being religious is you can think something like this. People bound to dogma cannot entertain this level of freedom.

But on the other hand, not having a religion is kind of like not having an anchor.

Alone and in the dark, in a foreign place. Words like scared, anxious, hopeful and contemplative. At any moment, the peace can break and all hell can burst out. It's the nature of things.

I think things are mostly as they appear. We live and we die. There're massive forces outside ourselves. Seven billion other people on this one planet. Billions of other planets in our galaxy. How many more moons and comets and rogue planets? How many other lifeforms in our galaxy?

How much of what's in me is in everybody else and vice versa? I suspect a lot. Evenso, we still die and things still change. Species become extinct. The earth will be burned up by the sun. And then when the sun cools this whole solar system becomes like a space-born coffin. We may someday harness fusion, but I have no idea if the sun dying will have any significance to us, if we're still surviving. I've read the average species survives 2 million years. We're already that old.

I can think things, but I don't KNOW things. That's the crux; the curse. I can talk and blah blah, but in the end, I'm not any better than an animal or a bug or something. They all have their own ideas about things, just like I do. Just existing, that's what we're mostly doing.

More and more I become aware of my effect on other creatures, even the small ones. If I kill a spider, for example, I'm aware that maybe a force greater than us could do the same to us. So someday humans on earth are jolly and the next day they're like squished spider guts. If I can find it in me to avoid killing, maybe the same can happen for us, if we're lucky. But I know s*** happens. Sometimes you're pressured into a corner. Things happen. Chaos. It's the nature of things. Yadda yadda.

reply to post by badgerprints


I used to be fascinated with this type of thing and I still am to a certain extent.

I do have to say that there is a certain brilliance in not knowing because if you did figure this whole thing out, it would be a waste of time.

It is a bit like going to a movie, we temporarily suspend reality to imagine that the actors on the screen are not just playing a part, we pretend that they are real people going through real experiences. We learn from the movie and we share the experiences of the characters for that brief moment.

After it, we remind ourselves that this was all just a farce but it was a good one because we learned from what happened and it was fun, it was sad, it was painful but it was a brilliant movie!

If we did not have the ability to imagine, think of all we would be missing out on.

reply to post by badgerprints

My feeling is that extraphysical dimensions are not stacked next to each other like slices of bread as is proposed by string theory. It is my belief that the initial three dimensions are at the center of a structure of dimensions that wrap around all and connect with each other like the chambers of a nautilus shell.

I personally tend to prefer theories like loop quantum gravity over string theory. I don't really like the idea of extra dimensions, I think the simplest explanation is usually the right one. I do like the basic premise of string theory though, because it simplifies everything into a vibrating "string", which is sort of similar to loop quantum gravity.

I don't really have anyone in my life that I can really discuss these esoteric subjects with but I still enjoy reading and thinking about them.

Well that's why we come to ATS, to chat with other people who can keep an open mind on topics like this.

EDIT: bit of info on LQG:

LQG differs from string theory in that it is formulated in 3 and 4 dimensions and without supersymmetry or Kaluza–Klein theory extra dimensions, while the latter requires both to be true. There is no experimental evidence to date that supports string theory's predictions of supersymmetry and Kaluza–Klein theory extra dimensions. In a 2003 paper A dialog on quantum gravity,[74] Carlo Rovelli regards the fact LQG is formulated in 4 dimensions and without supersymmetry as a strength of the theory as it represents the most parsimonious explanation, consistent with current experimental results, over its rival string/M-theory. Peter Woit in Not Even Wrong and Lee Smolin in The Trouble with Physics also regards string/M-theory to be in conflict with current known experimental results.

Loop Quantum Gravity - Gravitons, string theory, super symmetry, extra dimensions in lqg

There is a bunch of some that say we invented this world to interact with one another. Maybe it's called Elohim, in the "we" sense. But there is another layer of being where there exists others, and how it manifests is rather interesting, as though we all came from the stars.

I guess it depends on the definition of "person".

Just imagine the ones that have already crossed that boundary of what "this place" is.

Originally posted by jonnywhite
reply to post by badgerprints

 

Thought has crossed my mind. The beauty of not being religious is you can think something like this. People bound to dogma cannot entertain this level of freedom.

But on the other hand, not having a religion is kind of like not having an anchor.

I was raised in the church.
My father was ordained but he was diagnosed with cancer shortly thereafter. It prevented him from speaking.

I have been a Christian from a young age and although my faith is sometimes tested, it is not broken because I have developed the ability to see it in the context of the world and not as the judged perception of societal opinion.

Being religious does not prevent deep critical thought or boundless creativity.
That is a choice made by all people apart from religion, race, culture or even historical era.

Unfortunately, religion is often a place where we hide instead of using it as a vessel from which to realize our potential or as a base from which to climb higher as an individual. I'm not saying that applies to everybody. I'm saying that most people, no matter what beliefs they have, will take a basic set of beliefs and then stop. Their thought process becomes static and they don't go beyond their comfort level of critical thought. They never test their own limits.

Religion isn't necessarily the anchor that non religious people think it is.
The anchor can not tell you where to sail the boat. It can only keep you floating in one spot and that's not what boats are made to do.

Originally posted by XXXN3O
reply to post by badgerprints

 

I used to be fascinated with this type of thing and I still am to a certain extent.

I do have to say that there is a certain brilliance in not knowing because if you did figure this whole thing out, it would be a waste of time.

I don't think it would be a waste of time but if the solution to things was too simple then life would get boring real quick.

I don't think we'll figure this all out though.

I personally think we are more like a tiny ant that is on a long journey around a giant mustard tree to find out where it starts. We pass leaf to leaf and branch to branch. We dig deep and follow the roots but the tree continues to grow and the search never ends because we can sever actually see the tiny seed that it all started from.

Originally posted by Sandalphon
There is a bunch of some that say we invented this world to interact with one another. Maybe it's called Elohim, in the "we" sense. But there is another layer of being where there exists others, and how it manifests is rather interesting, as though we all came from the stars.

I guess it depends on the definition of "person".

Just imagine the ones that have already crossed that boundary of what "this place" is.

I think person could be defined as the vessel a soul takes in the physical world and the accumulated memories and feelings that soul has during the time it occupies that vessel.

Imagine that you're a 4th dimensional being. But wait, let's go back a little. Imagine what we would look like to a being that could only perceive 2 dimensions? We'd look like blobs to them, just like if a balloon intersected a piece of paper. A 4th dimensional being would be the same sort of thing to us.

And I have sometimes wondered if we aren't all the same 4th dimensional being. That all the manifestations of people aren't in some way, these intersections of a hyper-dimensional being with the 3rd dimension.

And it leads to an even stranger idea, the idea that the Ego, the idea of a unique identity, is archaic. Just think, we're already a bunch of different people, depending on whom you're with. You're not entirely the same person with your friends as you are with your mother, your boss or your children. So what if you tossed the notion of a single personality away. What if you encouraged yourself to be different, to adapt to every social situation by being the best assembly of yourselves that you could be? Maybe DID (aka MPD) is an evolution of consciousness instead of an illness. Would their be war if there were no more set belief systems?

reply to post by badgerprints


Yes.


Change soul to consciousness in your OP and it could mirror my train of thought.


One example of this is we are all individual in terms of thinking separately but over a life time do not most if not all experience the same concepts of loss, pain, love, joy, etc...

Its like a jigsaw puzzle with certain pieces being placed down in different times but at the end the big picture is always the same, its just the journey to finish the puzzle which is different at times but shows us all similarity at other times.


S/F I like your thinking as it opens up room for further thinking and contemplating the diversity and similarity we all have.

My theory of life goes as follows:

All that exists is the one eternal consciousness, one source of everything.
This source undergoes a continuous process of creation.. but like every artist.. it wanted a second opinion.
And the only way for it to have achieved this, was to divide itself up, and temporarily erase it's own memory.
So now it has created life.. to serve as an extension of it's senses.. to keep itself company, to fall in love with itself.

So yeah.. we're all the same person.