You are a Jihadi , you just don't know it.

Salam and peace to all ATS members.

It has been a long time that western MSM govts has been launching programs to stop rich oil region nations from fighting invaders and thieves.

I started this thread regarding a recent thread that is trying to follow the same line that western media is going

I didn't expect to see this on ATS.

Main idea

The main idea of this thread is to explain how false you have been informed about Jihad.

Jihad is a name for an instruction. This instruction tells Muslims that although this world is not stable and we will travel from this world , but we(Muslims) should stand up for the rights that god has granted us. The rights like our soil and our resources.

It has been a year I have been on ATS and I was informed about this site before.

I have seen many western members that say "I will fight if some one attacks America , or UK , or...But I won't go to fight and kill in Iraq"

I am telling you people that Muslims think the same way and that is all that Jihad wants us to do. And despite the name , the idea is functioning the same everywhere and all the time.

But your govt and MSM tells you that killing innocents and without warning in masses is Jihad , while it is not.

We are not what your govt tells you we are.

peace , M.E.

reply to post by mideast
The problem is that you do not speak for all Muslims. I'm sure that many share your version of what is the correct interpretation of Jihad but there will always be those that have a different interpretation- and these are the Muslims who garnish the most attention. This is nothing special to Muslims as there are Christian groups who have their own warped interpretation of things and they garnish the most attention even though the majority of Christians do not interpret in the same manner.

Those who twist scripture and teachings to their own agenda are those who we see and hear from most in the press, and because they get the most exposure are unfortunately the ones who everyone else is judged by. It is unfair but it is truth.

Weird how we have to be told that jihad is good. Maybe because we see the stories about Christians being imprisoned for possessing a Bible in an Islamic country, or having their heads cut off.... simply because they are Christian.

Look at one of the worst Christian groups that we have here in the US... the Westboro Baptists.... Have they been chopping heads off of Muslims???
Does our government imprison Muslims simply because they are Muslims?

reply to post by littled16


Of course I am not speaking from all Muslim groups , but you can see clearly who is helping these minority groups to work.

Like Saudi family

reply to post by butcherguy


I don't get the connection of your reply to Jihad , but Jihad is not what west tells you it is.

And those who get money from western govt or puppets , are responsible for these false actions.

Originally posted by butcherguy
Does our government imprison Muslims simply because they are Muslims?

Well seeing as how around half of the detainees at Guantanamo are eligible for release or transfer to other countries' custody, yet are still imprisoned, I'm going to have to say yes.

Originally posted by cconn487

Originally posted by butcherguy
Does our government imprison Muslims simply because they are Muslims?

Well seeing as how around half of the detainees at Guantanamo are eligible for release or transfer to other countries' custody, yet are still imprisoned, I'm going to have to say yes.

Is it just because they are Muslims? or did we conveniently miss the part where they are actively engaged in 'lesser jihad' (read terrorist activities)?

Better yet, do you see AMERICAN Muslims being arrested at mosques because they are worshiping?

Do you see Muslims being arrested for possessing a Koran? Hardly, they are given the Koran at Gitmo!

reply to post by mideast


That's odd... My understanding of the term Jihad is not from the West or from Non-Muslim sources. One main source is a man who spent his life in Al Qaeda and a good bit of time in the training pipeline within Afghanistan prior to the outbreak of war with the U.S. in 2001. Quite informative on that one...on a great many things. The other I rely on is a devout Muslim who has been quite helpful on matters of questions regarding Muslim Faith and specifics.


Jihad, as defined by Muslims, in their own words, by their own description is a Struggle for Improvement. Usually termed or recognized as an internal and eternal struggle for self improvement before Allah. It's certainly true that violent Jihad is only one form and not the most common form of the word's use, especially prior to the wars of the west.

On the other hand Violent Jihad isn't some Western construct or some fantasy by MSM. I'll agree with saying the way it's portrayed BY Muslims, about Muslims is a warped version of it's intent...but Jihadi as a fighter for Islam and a warrior for Allah is how THEY see themselves and describe themselves...and so, it's the term I will use as well.


I think the Muslim Community would get MUCH further with respect and understanding if the effort were to correct the misrepresentation BY MUSLIMS...and not tell us all how we just 'don't get it' and the "West" just lies to us. Ummm.. When it's from the Imams and Clerics of the radical Jihadis themselves? That's not the West with a huge image communication problem, IMO.

Jihad means holy war how can a religion that goes around chopping peoples heads off and demanding change be a religion of peace if you was peaceful you would respect our way of life and stop trying to change it and enforce sharia law on non Muslim counties.and as for your point on the media brain washing us i personally dont get my info from the BBC or Fox News i find the stuff they fail to report if anything Muslims are protected by the western media they always try to paint Islam as a religion of peace even if they are reporting a Muslim beheading a westerner they will still indicate Islam is a religion of peace.

Originally posted by butcherguy
Weird how we have to be told that jihad is good. Maybe because we see the stories about Christians being imprisoned for possessing a Bible in an Islamic country, or having their heads cut off.... simply because they are Christian.

Look at one of the worst Christian groups that we have here in the US... the Westboro Baptists.... Have they been chopping heads off of Muslims???
Does our government imprison Muslims simply because they are Muslims?

Have Muslims been cutting off peoples heads here in the states? You bring up what Muslims do over seas but when you talk about Christians you retreat to the states why? In Nigeria Christians have been killing Muslims simply because they are Muslim.

Does America imprison Muslims simply because they are Muslim? Ever hear of something called Guantanamo Bay?

Originally posted by SupersonicSerpent
Jihad means holy war how can a religion that goes around chopping peoples heads off and demanding change be a religion of peace if you was peaceful you would respect our way of life and stop trying to change it and enforce sharia law on non Muslim counties.and as for your point on the media brain washing us i personally dont get my info from the BBC or Fox News i find the stuff they fail to report if anything Muslims are protected by the western media they always try to paint Islam as a religion of peace even if they are reporting a Muslim beheading a westerner they will still indicate Islam is a religion of peace.

If you do a little research a violent Jihad is only allowed when the people and religion is being oppressed. And a person would have to be blind to not see it happening in the ME.

reply to post by buster2010


So you honestly believe Gitmo is there to imprison Muslims because they are Muslim? I must be badly misunderstanding you. You are generally better informed to world events than that.

I don't know if Jihadis have been head chopping in the U.S. or not. I know Honor Killings sourced back to Muslim culture and belief is coming to be more common than anyone would like to admit or see happen and that's enough for me. It is interesting that head chopping became the killing method of choice in Mexico. I'm sure it's entirely unrelated to Hezbollah and others having made a strong presence in Northern Mexico many many years ago. Pure coincidence. Indeed.

Incidentally, if we want to talk about murders in Africa for religion and ONLY about religion....ever seen how many ways someone can be impaled or crucified by a cross? It's a real rogues gallery of horror images one will never EVER forget...I assure that. The two legged variety of animals in Nigeria, The Sudan and Somalia (To name just a few) are creative about how to kill with religious symbols in ways that are evil beyond description. Wow.... Anything to take the counterpoint sometimes, eh?

Originally posted by butcherguy

Originally posted by cconn487

Originally posted by butcherguy
Does our government imprison Muslims simply because they are Muslims?

Well seeing as how around half of the detainees at Guantanamo are eligible for release or transfer to other countries' custody, yet are still imprisoned, I'm going to have to say yes.

Is it just because they are Muslims? or did we conveniently miss the part where they are actively engaged in 'lesser jihad' (read terrorist activities)?

Would these terrorist activities be fighting against people that invaded their countries would it?

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
reply to post by buster2010

 

So you honestly believe Gitmo is there to imprison Muslims because they are Muslim? I must be badly misunderstanding you. You are generally better informed to world events than that.

I don't know if Jihadis have been head chopping in the U.S. or not. I know Honor Killings sourced back to Muslim culture and belief is coming to be more common than anyone would like to admit or see happen and that's enough for me. It is interesting that head chopping became the killing method of choice in Mexico. I'm sure it's entirely unrelated to Hezbollah and others having made a strong presence in Northern Mexico many many years ago. Pure coincidence. Indeed.

Incidentally, if we want to talk about murders in Africa for religion and ONLY about religion....ever seen how many ways someone can be impaled or crucified by a cross? It's a real rogues gallery of horror images one will never EVER forget...I assure that. The two legged variety of animals in Nigeria, The Sudan and Somalia (To name just a few) are creative about how to kill with religious symbols in ways that are evil beyond description. Wow.... Anything to take the counterpoint sometimes, eh?

Look at how many people we have imprisoned there that have never been charged with anything. Now if there were no charges against them then why else were they locked up? Simply because they were Muslim and was at the wrong place at the wrong time.

reply to post by buster2010

Well, first, I have no idea what Gitmo has to do with a wider discussion about Jihad among the Muslim culture and belief system...but to address your point. There are 1.3 Billion Muslims in this world. Was Bush planning to stuff them all into that little series of buildings on the Gitmo base?

You don't agree with Gitmo..and that's fine. You pretty well disagree or dislike everything there is to dislike about America and make that clear...almost daily. Gitmo though, is a prison...not an internment camp. I'd LOVE to charge them...but the legal system is all tied in pretzels because two Presidents couldn't get beyond their own politics to get the job done.

Now.....They have spent years and every FORM of review and leniency attempt to get those guys released. Every one they could release without outright kicking loose enemy commanders and accomplished fighters, have been released. What remains is the worst of the worst for Jihadis in the worst sense of that word. KSM was set to plead guilty and take his sentence like a Man....until politics changed in 2008 and then figured he could have so much more fun screwing with our system, since he'd suddenly be allowed to again.

That you believe it's all just a ruse to imprison Muslims, doesn't make it so...by a long shot. That isn't the purpose or function, on any level. I hope addressing your O.T. issue isn't too far OT for the OP. I just hate the willful mischaracterization of US Policy. It's bad enough on it's own without adding nonsense to it.

reply to post by buster2010

Does America imprison Muslims simply because they are Muslim? Ever hear of something called Guantanamo Bay?

So there are prisoners in Gitmo that were put there for no other reason than that they are Muslim?

Have Muslims been cutting off peoples heads here in the states?

Maybe not.
Honor killings have happened in the US.
Honor killings

Some members didn't get it.

This is not "please, don't invade us thread"

This is a thread to help us understand each other better.

+ All the misunderstanding won't get cleared as long as all western countries are using all their efforts to find minority groups and helping them achieve their goals.

So , no leader , no groups can stop one empty head groups of people who are being support from outside to get back to table of negotiation.

But the fact that many don't like to face is that western govts are helping these groups.

So , these people usually ask "why there are such empty head Muslims?"

The answer is that empty head groups are there every where on the planet. But their power depends on how much support they can get from outside. ( the most recent witness is the fear of people from banning gun in America )

And I hope that another super power gets enough power to teach you what this means.

Amen

reply to post by buster2010


when muslims worship a book that contains scriptures like this it is very hard to see them as peaceful human beings.

"Your Lord inspired the angels with the message: 'I am with you. Give firmness to the Believers. I will terrorize the unbelievers. Therefore smite them on their necks and every joint and incapacitate them. Strike off their heads and cut off each of their fingers and toes.'"



"When Allah gave permission to his Apostle to fight, the second Aqaba contained conditions involving war which were not in the first act of submission. Now we bound themselves to war against all mankind for Allah and His Apostle. He promised us a reward in Paradise for faithful service. We pledged ourselves to war in complete obedience to Muhammad no matter how evil the circumstances."


"Muhammad's Companions are the best in war."


"Allah wished to confirm the truth by His words: 'Wipe the infidels out to the last.'

reply to post by SupersonicSerpent


No one said Islam is a religion of being stillness or surrendering.

It values are based on logic and common sense.

While you left all other verses , and brought what fitted your agenda , you will not find any way into what we wanted to start here.

These verses have some time and occasion , there are other verses who tells how to treat other groups and religions , like

21:107
we have not sent you (prophet muhammad) except as a mercy to all the worlds.

2:62
those who believe (in the qur'an), and those who follow the jewish (scriptures), and the christians and the sabians,- any who believe in allah and the last day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.

22:17
those who believe (in the qur'an), those who follow the jewish (scriptures), and the sabians, christians, magians, and polytheists,- allah will judge between them on the day of judgment: for allah is witness of all things.

5:1
o ye who believe! fulfil (all) obligations

and many other verses which explain about relation with none believers.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


You are referring to the "greater and lesser" jihad I assume. The greater being the struggle with ones self. The lesser being the struggle against the, well, world, for a lack of a better word. Right?