Is the theory of evolution responsible for a toxic society?

Originally posted by ConspiracyNutjob

Originally posted by drakus
Okay, so let's mix up the Big Bang Theory (origin of our universe), the Abiogenesis theory (origin of life in this planet) and the Theory of Evolution (The progressive adaptation of lifeforms) and end up with something that doesn't make sense!!!

The Theory of Evolution DOES NOT CARE about how life arose. It has NOTHING TO DO WITH IT.

edit on 20/3/2013 by drakus because: (no reason given)

You can make a distinction between cosmic evolution and biological evolution all day every day.

The connection between cosmic evolution and bioloigcal evolution is critical, the whole theory is bunk because it requires abiogenesis to bridge the gap.

We do adapt and evolve but it is limited to MICROEVOLUTION, Macroevolution is a fantasy.

Ok, but in that case you are not talking about the Theory of Evolution anymore
You are discussing your own re-creation of a scientific theory.
You have every right to challenge the ToE, but you sort of have to use the same theory we all use, there's no point in inventing your own and then try to paint the ToE being as you described it...

Love the get along gang guys

ConspiracyNut: i agree with your views, you should check out Ben Stein's "Expelled", free on facetube

The moral implications of what is a deeply flawed scientific theory are alarming. The thought of organised science calling a false tune is, sad, but inevitable, he who pays the piper, to be sure.

Nice thread, see the darwinists line up, you can learn a lot about their behaviour

peace

reply to post by ConspiracyNutjob


Christians lie. They even lie to themselves on such things. Look you are doing it now.


BTW Stalin was a statist. You should at least blame the correct things for the atrocities performed.

Originally posted by drakus

Originally posted by ConspiracyNutjob

Originally posted by drakus
Okay, so let's mix up the Big Bang Theory (origin of our universe), the Abiogenesis theory (origin of life in this planet) and the Theory of Evolution (The progressive adaptation of lifeforms) and end up with something that doesn't make sense!!!

The Theory of Evolution DOES NOT CARE about how life arose. It has NOTHING TO DO WITH IT.

edit on 20/3/2013 by drakus because: (no reason given)

You can make a distinction between cosmic evolution and biological evolution all day every day.

The connection between cosmic evolution and bioloigcal evolution is critical, the whole theory is bunk because it requires abiogenesis to bridge the gap.

We do adapt and evolve but it is limited to MICROEVOLUTION, Macroevolution is a fantasy.

Ok, but in that case you are not talking about the Theory of Evolution anymore
You are discussing your own re-creation of a scientific theory.
You have every right to challenge the ToE, but you sort of have to use the same theory we all use, there's no point in inventing your own and then try to paint the ToE being as you described it...

I am not re-creating any of the scientific theories. I am exposing how it is scientifically impossible to prove the transition from one to another.

Abiogenesis is the thorn in the side of every atheist that tries to explain our existence without a creator.

Honourable scientists will admit that they cannot prove the origins of biological life because they cannot prove abiogensis and they cannot prove macroevolution.

Hitler, the Christian

Hitler not only got brought up as a Catholic Christian, but he expressed his Christian views into adulthood, including his period as Chancellor of the German Third Reich. One only need read Mein Kampf to see the extent of his Biblical beliefs. The German populace knew well about Hitler's book and it became a best-seller second only to the Bible. Furthermore, Hitler expressed his Christian feelings even more intensely in his speeches and proclamations throughout his power reign.

Although some might counter that Hitler's admission to Christianity, by itself, does not make one a Christian, how else can an individual convey to another his religion except from their own confession? One of the tenants of Christian belief, indeed the definition of a Christian, comes from the Pauline epistiles in regards to faith in Jesus:Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

-Galatians 2:16

To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.


-Romans 3:26-28
Paul, by declaring faith in Jesus over law, effectively separated Christianity from Judaism. It came from these Pauline declarations that first defined Christianity. Belief in Jesus serves as the only requirement for membership into the Christian community. Christianity does not require adhering to Old Testament laws or membership to any Church or abstaining from evil deeds. One need only have faith in Jesus for its justification, period.

Although Hitler did not attend church regularly and later criticized the Church for their rejection of his reformation of a unified German Church, at no time did Hitler criticize God or Jesus. He always maintained an honor and belief in Jesus. This alone put him as a Christian believer. But Hitler went beyond just belief in Jesus; he devoted his entire political life to deeds aimed at creating a race of people in the pure image of God.
Some claim that Hitler lied when promoting religion, for political reasons (without citing a shred of evidence), but nothing in the historical record indicates this, nor would there appear any reason for him to do so. Even if he lied in Mein Kampf, why would he continue to consider himself a Christian after he held absolute German power? Why spend so much valuable resources to rid Germany of Jews if not from some profound justification? Hate of Jews alone cannot explain it. The hate must stem from some source and the historical record shows that anti-Judaism had long lived in the minds of Christians ever since Paul separated his community of believers from the law and people of Judaism.
Just as revealingly, not only did Hitler present his religious beliefs in his speeches, but his own private notes reveal the influence of the Bible, long before he came into power. In one of his notes, he describes the Bible as the monumental history of mankind and used the old testament race laws as the foundation for his views against the Jews, which later turned into the Nazi Nuremberg race laws [Maser, p.282]

Many Christians have attempted to destroy Hitler's claimed Christianity by pointing out that his actions did not appear Christian-like (whatever that means). Therefore, so the hypothesis goes, no "true" Christian would cause "evil" deeds. But again, the Bible does not define Christianity in terms of deeds regardless of how good or evil they seem. Yet it came through his very deeds that Hitler confessed his work for the Lord:Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.

-Hitler (Mein Kampf)



Hitler's work of the Lord only agrees with Biblical scripture:And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.

-Colossians 3:17



Hitler not only believed in Jesus (which alone made him a Christian) but his work against the Jews came straight from Christian theological reasoning just as had many Christian saints of the past. His Christian expressions of "Lord God," "Living Christ," and "Lord and Savior" indicates his acknowledgement of Jesus as God and his acceptance of a resurrected Christ (for what else can "Living" and "Savior" mean except from a resurrected state?). Hitler also believed in the supernatural concept of life after death. In Mein Kampf he wrote, "a religion in the Aryan sense cannot be imagined which lacks the conviction of survival after death in some form."

much more proof

reply to post by ConspiracyNutjob

Is the theory of evolution responsible for a toxic society?

Well, it does stand to reason that beyond pure science, dismissing creation and therefore also, dismissing God (any, your choice) has its perks, not the least of which is the stripping of any responsibility higher than to oneself or to humanity.

The most common example we see each and everyday is how people have simply become mean. There are shootings, stabbings and other forms of murder. There are rapes, assaults, arson and various other forms of violence. This kind of behavior has grown proportionately along with society becoming more secular. We don't raise our children to fear God or any particular set of rules. They grow up in cold daycare centers and instead of playing outdoors... they learn how to interact with real people via bloody video games and unhinged social networking.

We are descended from monkeys. There is no god therefore, no one who oversees your every action... even when mommy or daddy are actually home to play parent. No ultimate price to pay for anything. You can do as you please and if you can dodge your absentee parents and the law, you can run amok in this existence. The human animal defeats the human spirit because the animal and its mortal, physical existence is given top shelf to satisfy its most base desires.

Personally, I belief that God... however he/she exists in whatever form, created human kind through manipulation of DNA and by installing an eternal spirit that connects to another plane of existence. This life is meant to be spent living and then learning so when its short path comes to an end, that spirit is ready to move on... is capable and worthy of the next level.

But... somewhere along the way, another force came into play and its entire purpose is to derail this experiment by corrupting the subject matter and causing the final moments to end in failure. Mankind will never be allowed to evolve naturally into a single body as intended. It will be forced into it prematurely and in its primitive, unready state combined with a godless reference point to use for the lost moral compass, will end up cooking in the fires of its own making.

Evolution is indeed a reality. We just don't grasp the path that we were intended to follow... and are instead on a dead end road.

Okay... sorry for the ear cooking. I'm done. Best

Originally posted by Grimpachi
reply to post by ConspiracyNutjob

 

Christians lie. They even lie to themselves on such things. Look you are doing it now.


BTW Stalin was a statist. You should at least blame the correct things for the atrocities performed.

We all have lied, some more than others.


“If you tell a big enough lie and tell it frequently enough, it will be believed”

Adolf Hitler


Justifying your actions by claiming that you are doing them in the name of God is nothing new, it has been done for thousands of years. Hitler tried to make his actions appear 'divine' to his loyal followers.


Stalin was heavily influenced by the theory of evolution, why the emphasis on him being a statist?

Originally posted by ConspiracyNutjob

Forgive me but I like to roll the whole thing into one package to illustrate how ridiculous the big bang theory, the theory of evolution and abiogenesis really is from a scientific point of view.

The assumed age of the universe is not due to observations at all, it is based on the big bang theory and the theory of evolution. Scientist's like to stress that the universe has been here for billions of years because for some reason if you add more time then magic happens!

Abiogenesis can magically happen when you add lot's of zeros for the age of the universe.

edit on 20-3-2013 by ConspiracyNutjob because: (no reason given)

This is called a Strawman argument. You have created your own theory, decided that it is untrue and then are trying to say that therefore the theory of evolution is untrue. It is poor arguing technique. This post alone is enough to get me to steer away from arguing with you, however I've read the whole thread and I KNOW not to argue with you. Just wanted to point this out to you.

Originally posted by ConspiracyNutjob


Abiogenesis has never been empirically proven.

Has god

Yet I can prove MAN created god if fact not just ONE but hundreds

Names of god(s)

In every part of the world Man came up with god stories to explain things they could not understand at that time that's why there are Sun , Rain , Moon & Thunder gods to name but a few examples on the link above there are hundreds..

If there was one god that was supposed to have created everything, why was this god only known in a small part of the world, after all if he was so powerful that he created everything why was letting every human on the planet know of him at the same time so difficult.

All over the planet people have their creation stories for the universe, earth and man NO two are the same they all have as much right as each other to be believed they CAN'T all be right but they can all be WRONG!

Deal with it!!

Originally posted by ConspiracyNutjob

Originally posted by Grimpachi
reply to post by ConspiracyNutjob

 

Christians lie. They even lie to themselves on such things. Look you are doing it now.


BTW Stalin was a statist. You should at least blame the correct things for the atrocities performed.

We all have lied, some more than others.


“If you tell a big enough lie and tell it frequently enough, it will be believed”

Adolf Hitler


Justifying your actions by claiming that you are doing them in the name of God is nothing new, it has been done for thousands of years. Hitler tried to make his actions appear 'divine' to his loyal followers.


Stalin was heavily influenced by the theory of evolution, why the emphasis on him being a statist?

edit on 20-3-2013 by ConspiracyNutjob because: (no reason given)

So you admit you plan to tell the lie that he wasn’t a Christian in hopes that it becomes the truth.

It is documented history now and with the advent of the internet no matter how many book burnings the Christians have the history will be evident for all to see.

Another indication of Hitler's beliefs about religion comes from his private library of numerous books. Although most of Hitler's books came as gifts from writers and publishers, those where he penciled and underlined sections reveal, not only the books that he read, but also those that he commented on and had an interest in. Timothy W. Ryback, who examined Hitler's books, found more than 130 books devoted to spirituality and religion including the teachings of Jesus Christ. Some of the titles included, Sunday Meditations; On Prayer; A Primer for Religious Questions, Large and Small; Large Truths About Mankind, the World and God; a German translation of E. Stanley Jones's 1931 best seller, The Christ of the Mount; and a 500-page work on the life and teachings of Jesus, published in 1935 under the title The Son: The Evangelical Sources and Pronouncements of Jesus of Nazareth in Their Original Form and With the Jewish Influences. Ryback also found a leather-bound tome -- with WORTE CHRISTI, or "Words of Christ," embossed in gold on the cover -- According to Ryback, it "was well worn, the silky, supple leather peeling upward in gentle curls along the edges. Human hands had obviously spent a lot of time with this book.... I scanned the book for marginalia that might suggest a close study of the text. A white-silk bookmark, preserved in its original perfection between pages 22 and 23 (only the portion exposed to the air had deteriorated), lay across a description of the Last Supper as related by Saint John. A series of pages that followed contained only a single aphorism each: 'Believe in God' (page 31), 'Have no fear, just believe' (page 52), 'If you believe, anything is possible' (page 53), and so on, all the way to page 95, which offers the solemn wisdom 'Many are called but few are chosen.'" [Ryback]

After reading Hitler's book and his speeches, one cannot help but realize that Hitler believed in fate and the guiding hand of Providence. Like many powerful religious people, he thought of himself as a sort of messiah, chosen by God. In 1943, while the war still raged on, the U.S. Office of Strategic Services (forerunner of the CIA) commissioned the psychoanalyst, Walter Langer, to develop a "psychological profile" of Adolf Hitler. Langer looked at all the, then, available material about Hitler, including Mein Kampf, his speeches, and interviews with former Hitler associates. Langer concluded:

A survey of all the evidence forces us to conclude that Hitler believes himself destined to become an Immortal Hitler, chosen by God to be the New Deliverer of Germany and the Founder of a new social order for the world. He firmly believes this and is certain that in spite of all the trials and tribulations through which he must pass he will finally attain that goal. The one condition is that he follow the dictates of the inner voice that have guided and protected him in the past.


Langer hypothesized the most likely scenario if Hitler faced defeat where, in a "prescient moment," Hitler's belief in divine protection would compel him to fight to the bitter end, "drag[ging] a world with us -- a world in flames," and ultimately, he would take his own life. [Ryback]

Fortunately Hitler did not drag us with him in a world of flames but Langer pegged Hitler's profile.

source already given

Originally posted by Krazysh0t

Originally posted by ConspiracyNutjob

Forgive me but I like to roll the whole thing into one package to illustrate how ridiculous the big bang theory, the theory of evolution and abiogenesis really is from a scientific point of view.

The assumed age of the universe is not due to observations at all, it is based on the big bang theory and the theory of evolution. Scientist's like to stress that the universe has been here for billions of years because for some reason if you add more time then magic happens!

Abiogenesis can magically happen when you add lot's of zeros for the age of the universe.

edit on 20-3-2013 by ConspiracyNutjob because: (no reason given)

This is called a Strawman argument. You have created your own theory, decided that it is untrue and then are trying to say that therefore the theory of evolution is untrue. It is poor arguing technique. This post alone is enough to get me to steer away from arguing with you, however I've read the whole thread and I KNOW not to argue with you. Just wanted to point this out to you.

I have presented the theories that are taught in the texbooks and drawn a line between them, I have not created a new theory and trashed it.

Try again.

I do believe the theory of evolution may have an impact on morals and ethics of society. However, I do not believe religion is the sole source or morals. I believe in a conscience, and in some cases even people far removed from the ethics and morals taught in religion still know basic human understanding of not killing one another and what not.

As for evolution, I believe in macro-evolution as much as I can see it; As much as anyone has.

I have one request that will prove evolution correct and this argument null and void.

We have the Scientific Method that is supposed to be used as the fundamental steps to proving something in science. I ask where anyone has experimented and witnessed one specie becoming another specie. I ask where one situation has occurred in science of mankind where actually evolution from one specie to a separate specie, no matter how minute, has actually been witnessed in a lab.

Sure, traits can change and adaptation takes place, but never in science has evolution been seen.

Proponents of the theory, instead of going with these conclusions would instead draw the following ASSUMPTIONS, something that is not done in other scientific theory:

1. Since the evolution did not occur before our eyes over the testing time, we assume that evolution takes a long, long time, longer than any human has time to witness. (A cop out argument making the 'theory' unprovable and undeniable at the same time.)

2. Since bacteria has been witnessed adapting to different environments, we assume that larger, multi-celled organisms can do the same on a larger scale over a longer period of time, and thus that evolution must have taken place.




Adaptation is not evolution. I do not need to change my physiological nature in order to survive in differing climates, I simply have to change my methods. Intelligent evolution, sounds more plausible in this regard by the evidence of instincts that are passed on from species with no formal training, however there is literally no proof, and there never has been, of humans witnessing this "theory of evolution" that people so candidly believe.




This coming from a tried and true scientific Agnostic.

Originally posted by wmd_2008

Originally posted by ConspiracyNutjob


Abiogenesis has never been empirically proven.

Has god

Yet I can prove MAN created god if fact not just ONE but hundreds

Names of god(s)

In every part of the world Man came up with god stories to explain things they could not understand at that time that's why there are Sun , Rain , Moon & Thunder gods to name but a few examples on the link above there are hundreds..

If there was one god that was supposed to have created everything, why was this god only known in a small part of the world, after all if he was so powerful that he created everything why was letting every human on the planet know of him at the same time so difficult.

All over the planet people have their creation stories for the universe, earth and man NO two are the same they all have as much right as each other to be believed they CAN'T all be right but they can all be WRONG!

Deal with it!!

I am not here to prove my belief in God. It is a belief.

I am here to prove that evolutionist's also have a religious belief that requires faith. They have been preaching this religion in our public schools at taxpayers expense for decades.

I am also here to expose that this philosophy is harmful to themselves and others.

reply to post by TheNewRevolution


Well, "tried and true scientific Agnostic", I starred you for your second sentence, and now I wish I hadn't.
This is ridiculous.
Evolution and adaptation go hand in hand. Slowly, painfully incrementally, until something "else" is the result.

I'm astounded at how intelligent people are able to miss the "adaptation" part and make the leap: "T-Rex to chicken?! No Way!"

Preposterous reasoning, and a show of ignorance of the actual 'scientific' theory.

Originally posted by Grimpachi

Originally posted by ConspiracyNutjob

Originally posted by Grimpachi
reply to post by ConspiracyNutjob

 

Christians lie. They even lie to themselves on such things. Look you are doing it now.


BTW Stalin was a statist. You should at least blame the correct things for the atrocities performed.

We all have lied, some more than others.


“If you tell a big enough lie and tell it frequently enough, it will be believed”

Adolf Hitler


Justifying your actions by claiming that you are doing them in the name of God is nothing new, it has been done for thousands of years. Hitler tried to make his actions appear 'divine' to his loyal followers.


Stalin was heavily influenced by the theory of evolution, why the emphasis on him being a statist?

edit on 20-3-2013 by ConspiracyNutjob because: (no reason given)

So you admit you plan to tell the lie that he wasn’t a Christian in hopes that it becomes the truth.

It is documented history now and with the advent of the internet no matter how many book burnings the Christians have the history will be evident for all to see.

When a christian or a muslim kills someone in the name of God should I really believe that they are doing it in the name of God or are they simply trying to justify their actions in the sight of others and for themselves?

Simple answer: Justification.

It is true that the mind can deceive itself. Hitler may have actually been very sincere in what he was saying but that does not make him a Christian.

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by TheNewRevolution

 

Well, "tried and true scientific Agnostic", I starred you for your second sentence, and now I wish I hadn't.
This is ridiculous.
Evolution and adaptation go hand in hand. Slowly, painfully incrementally, until something "else" is the result.

I'm astounded at how intelligent people are able to miss the "adaptation" part and make the leap: "T-Rex to chicken?! No Way!"

Preposterous reasoning, and a show of ignorance of the actual 'scientific' theory.

I am astounded that people make the leap from microevolution to macroevolution.

Preposterous reasoning, and a show of ignorance to actual 'scientific' method.

reply to post by ConspiracyNutjob

I am not here to prove my belief in God. It is a belief.

I am here to prove that evolutionist's also have a religious belief that requires faith. They have been preaching this religion in our public schools at taxpayers expense for decades.

I am also here to expose that this philosophy is harmful to themselves and others.

Well you have a long ways to go. The only thing you have proven so far has been that you know how to construct a strawman argument and that you will dismiss history to suit your agenda.

The fact that you dismiss history in the way you have has proven to me that you are less than honest and shouldn’t be trusted.

reply to post by ConspiracyNutjob


There is EVIDENCE for evolution there is NO evidence for god except the ramblings of individuals that use fairy tales to give themselves a job!!!

reply to post by ConspiracyNutjob

I am astounded that people make the leap from microevolution to macroevolution.

Preposterous reasoning, and a show of ignorance to actual 'scientific' method.

Then you must disagree with the mathematic formula of 1+1=2

Micro + micro = Macro

Small + small = Bigger

Originally posted by Grimpachi
reply to post by ConspiracyNutjob

 

I am not here to prove my belief in God. It is a belief.

I am here to prove that evolutionist's also have a religious belief that requires faith. They have been preaching this religion in our public schools at taxpayers expense for decades.

I am also here to expose that this philosophy is harmful to themselves and others.

Well you have a long ways to go. The only thing you have proven so far has been that you know how to construct a strawman argument and that you will dismiss history to suit your agenda.

The fact that you dismiss history in the way you have has proven to me that you are less than honest and shouldn’t be trusted.

You believe all that Hitler says and you take his word for it despite his murderous heart. I probably should not trust you either.


Hitler cliams to be a christian and yet...

Mark 12:31-32

And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment. And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.


I guess he failed to read this part of the good book?