Atlantis the evidence: BBC documentary

reply to post by Blue Shift


If you wanna take that way fine, but believing in a civilization that was world superpower thousands of years ago is alot easier to believe than the lord of the rings stuff. The stuff about star wars might exist no one knows for sure, there are worlds without number out in the universe. So Hans you keep up your crusade, just dont quit your day job.

I much prefer this new documentary.

Originally posted by DemonSpeedN
reply to post by GezinhoKiko

 

Lets remember Plato was a philosopher and a teacher not some story teller on the street corner.

Ha! Plato was quite the story teller, and Socrates(his idol) did stand on the street corner, while Plato and others sat at his feet.

reply to post by Funk bunyip


What exactly did these ships do? One would think they would at least have traded or obtain resources - so why no sign of this trade or resource use?

So where are the anchors and sunken ships?

If you read about bronze age and earlier sailors one things they left a lot of around the Med and associated waterways were anchors, stone anchors, by there style you can tell what the 'nationality' was and by the type of rock get an idea of where the rock came from.

I would suggest taking a look at the book by Shelley Wachsmann, Seagoing Ships & Seamanship in the Bronze Age Levant. Written in 1998 its getting a bit dated but still outlines who was sailing where using what.

reply to post by Hanslune

What exactly did these ships do?

Well for one thing, a lot of cartography! There are many old maps, which predate the 'discovery' of Antarctica and the Americas... that show Antarctica and the Americas! The authors of the maps themselves say they compiled their maps from much more ancient source maps. Some of these maps even show the world as it would have looked before sea levels rose: A land bridge across the Bering strait and Indonesia as much less of an archepelego etc.. and a detailed map of what Antarctica looks like under the ice.

Here's a great talk by Graham Hancock about it:

so why no sign of this trade or resource use?

Cocaine, hash and nicotine (only grown in the Americas) found with Egyptian mummies, countless cultural parallels between societies which are assumed to have had no contact, countless parallel myths of a sea-faring white skinned people who brought civilization with them. White skinned caucasian mummies found in Chinese pyramids.. i could go on but this has been covered by many people such as Graham Hancock, Klaus Dona, John Anthony West, Manly P Hall, Jonathan Gray etc etc.. just youtube those names if you are genuinely interested

So where are the anchors and sunken ships?

At the bottom of the ocean! Our current coastline is not where it was before sea levels rose, hence ancient ports would be deep underwater, covered with 12,000 years of sediment and far offshore. But i doubt much metal or wood would last 12,000 years in salt water.

If you read about bronze age and earlier sailors one things they left a lot of around the Med and associated waterways...

We are talking about a different time frame here, much earlier than the bronze age. Human technological advancement has not been a linear process in my view. The Antikythera Mechanism is one proof of this.

peace

reply to post by Funk bunyip


Out of interest, if you think Atlantis was a global seafaring empire destroyed 12,900 years ago, why was their technoogy identical to that of the Bronze Age in Plato's time? Why did they invade the Mediterranean? And why were they defeated by a Bronze Age Athens that did not exist until thousands of years later?

And why are you so certain that Plato was relating accurate hostorical fact, and not embellishing a story for allegorical purposes?

reply to post by AndyMayhew

Out of interest, if you think Atlantis was a global seafaring empire destroyed 12,900 years ago, why was their technoogy identical to that of the Bronze Age in Plato's time? Why did they invade the Mediterranean? And why were they defeated by a Bronze Age Athens that did not exist until thousands of years later?

And why are you so certain that Plato was relating accurate hostorical fact, and not embellishing a story for allegorical purposes?

'Atlantis' is just a word, a name for an idea; i absolutely do not believe Plato was relating accurate historical fact at all, i think he was relating his version of a 'Chinese whisper' ..part fact, part fable. Plato's Atlantis was never intended as a history lesson, but a moral one. Also, he could only describe things within his own technological frame of reference, so who is to say what lost technology existed 12,900 years ago.
The problem with the word Atlantis, is that nowadays it carries so much baggage with it, that the word itself means 100 different things to 100 different people, so the word is pretty useless at conveying any single meaning. To be honest, i prefer the term 'Antedeluvian civilization' or 'pre-flood civilization'. Perhaps this is what Plato was describing, or perhaps it simply was a bronze age cataclysm, as the OP's doco suggests, or perhaps a combination of the 2 woven into a tale

Have a listen to the Manly Hall lecture i posted on page 1 to understand where i'm coming from.

oh and S&F to the OP for a fun doco

Originally posted by DemonSpeedN
reply to post by GezinhoKiko

 

Lets remember Plato was a philosopher and a teacher not some story teller on the street corner. Plus he was told the story of Atlantis by his uncle Solon, who in turn was told by Egyptian Priests when Solon visited Egypt. The level of detail that the story has can't be made up and life many time can be stranger than fiction. I whole hardheartedly believe that the Canary Islands or the Azores is the general location of where Atlantis was and still is. You just have to dig deep enough and in this case you have to dive very deep, like a couple miles or more.

While I agree with your general comments, I have a little difficulty with the ending.

NO ONE SAW WHAT HAPPENED.

One day it was there.

The next, all there was, was nothing.

Unlike the majority of those who believe Atlantis was a reality, and sunk, I believe Atlantis was a reality but was REMOVED from Earth.

And to that length, I personally do not believe it was of this earth. I believe it was the Habitation of the gods on this earth. It may well have had the Seat/Throne of GOD (yes the Biblical GOD I am) at it's Center.

And I would also suggest, The Azores would have made up just the Eastern Edge of Atlantis. I believe it stood between the Azores and the Caribbean.

Just based on what Plato expresses in the Tale, and the comments attributed to the Priest, there is more than a fictional account. Much like Troy was Fictional. Much like the 1st Dynasty of China was Fictional. Fictions that actually are realities.

I also liked the comments the Priest is attributed to have noted about the level of History being considered. Makes you wonder what was truly lost when the Library was destroyed.

The Thera aspect of this,..... The playthings of the gods, had to live somewhere. It would have been more of a Suburb than Atlantis itself. Not the Only Suburb either. Just one of them.

Ciao

Shane

reply to post by Shane


You made a comment on the library. Lots of people like to make believe that 'lots of hidden history was lost' in the various destructions of the library of Alexandria. They tend to forget that the LA was 'open' for centuries and many scholars worked there and produced works, which were read and commented on by other scholars. Oddly they make no mention of a 'hidden' history.

You may want to look up: the Pinakes which was a bibliographic work composed by Callimachus that is popularly considered to be the first library catalog; its contents were based on the collection of the Library of Alexandria during Callimachus' tenure around 3rd century BC. It will give you the basic categories of what the library contained:

The organization was based on:

Rhetoric, law, epic, tragedy, comedy, lyric poetry, history, medicine, mathematics, natural science and miscellanies

reply to post by Hanslune


thank you very much for the pinakes mention
never heard of it before so going to spend some time looking into it!
appreciate it!

reply to post by GezinhoKiko


The island of Santorini (Thera) could have been a model for Atlantis; so could have been the town of Helike which landslid into the sea in a single day. Some elements of the Plato narrative certainly fit; some others don't however. For example the time frame is all wrong, because approximately 9,000 to 10,000 BC Athens was non-existent as town and could not have fought and repulsed the Atlanteans. Then there is the wrong size; Santorini is much smaller than Asia (Minor) and Lybia combined.

It's most probable just a fable; a story with a moral teaching. One of them is that every ancient civilization did not establish itself by parthenogenesis, but did rest on the shoulders of other older, more ancient civilizations. That is the point the Egyptians make when the priest claims to Solon that they have records from many thousand years ago. It explains the Deukalion flood myth in a scientific manner (tsunami) and it tries to model an ideal, utopian society.

And it's a lot of hearsay in the story: Kritias heard from his grandfather who is descendant of Solon that Solon told him that the Egyptian priests told him ... is there a kernel of truth there? Definitely, as mentioned the destruction of Santorini plus the tsunami that followed and not only destroyed the civilization on Santorini, but also the Minoan civilization on Crete or the town of Helike which had happened a few years before Plato wrote the story.

reply to post by Hanslune

I don't know about hidden history and being lost, but a lot of original sources (documents, treatises, books etc.) was destroyed and lost for a long time or even for ever. Some of it resurfaced through the Arabs in translations; some was lost forever.

Originally posted by Funk bunyip
reply to post by Hanslune

 

Cocaine, hash and nicotine (only grown in the Americas) found with Egyptian mummies, countless cultural parallels between societies which are assumed to have had no contact, countless parallel myths of a sea-faring white skinned people who brought civilization with them. White skinned caucasian mummies found in Chinese pyramids..)

Well, coc aine, hash and nicotine could have gotten to the mummies through contamination. For a long time all those substances were legal and many of the scientists handling the mummies might have contaminated them. White skinned explorers? Sure, I can buy that: every now and then an Egyptian papyrus boat or a Greek or Phoenician ship might have lost it's way and hopped over to the New Continent, the Americas. It might have happened occasionally, but the evidence is very flimsy. Apart from myths and stories there is not much there.

We are talking about a different time frame here, much earlier than the bronze age. Human technological advancement has not been a linear process in my view. The Antikythera Mechanism is one proof of this.

How much earlier? The Antikythera mechanism is a product of the Hellenistic era, around 300 BC, so it's not that old, sophisticated, yes, but not that old. And all knowledge advances in all manners of ways, sometimes slow and gradually and *gasp* linear and sometimes in leaps and bounds and non-linear.

reply to post by trysts


I dont know where you got your information that Plato or Socrates sat on street corner telling their stories or preaching or whatever. Thats not the point, the point is the story of Atlantis originally came from the Egyptian priest, Plato didnt make it up he just re-told it. I think your confusing Plato with Aesop and his fables or maybe even Jesus with his followers listening to him preach the gospel.

reply to post by Hanslune



Yes the library of Alexandria was open for centuries and the scholars and others that knew of what it contained knew that information as common knowledge because it was available to them. Today its considered "Hidden knowledge" cause its not available to us to confirm or deny and those scholars are not alive to ask them what information the library held.

reply to post by GezinhoKiko

Atlantis was never an island, or land ,or continent ,i have no understanding why they feed the populace with these lies.

Originally posted by DemonSpeedN
reply to post by trysts

 

I dont know where you got your information that Plato or Socrates sat on street corner telling their stories or preaching or whatever. Thats not the point, the point is the story of Atlantis originally came from the Egyptian priest, Plato didnt make it up he just re-told it. I think your confusing Plato with Aesop and his fables or maybe even Jesus with his followers listening to him preach the gospel.

Yes, but we don't know if the story ACTUALLY came from an Egyptian priest. Plato just wrote that.

Edgar Rice Burrough's claimed in his Martian series that he got the manuscript from John Carter....a literary set up nothing more.

Considering the implausibility of Plato's stories, the historical and archaeological impossibilities we can laid it aside as a 'historic' story and one of fiction and philosophy. Plato made up a number of things in his volumes of writing, I would suggest looking up his tale of the ring of Gyges, now he was probably just remarking on a common legend of the time but repeating fantastically stories wasn't something that Plato was adverse to if it would hlep illustrate his point.

Originally posted by LastProphet527
reply to post by GezinhoKiko

 

Atlantis was never an island, or land ,or continent ,i have no understanding why they feed the populace with these lies.

I must ask who you think 'THEY' is?

reply to post by WalterRatlos

Apart from myths and stories there is not much there.

The sheer number of parallel myths is evidence enough to give the theory merit worth considering!

How much earlier? The Antikythera mechanism is a product of the Hellenistic era, around 300 BC, so it's not that old, sophisticated, yes, but not that old.

I wasn't saying the Antikythera mechanism was older, i was just using it as an example of non-linear tech: ie tech that was seemingly before it's time and somehow forgotten, instead of being used from the time of it's invention -------> onwards until something better was made.

Originally posted by LastProphet527
reply to post by GezinhoKiko

 

Atlantis was never an island, or land ,or continent ,i have no understanding why they feed the populace with these lies.

The story of Atlantis was a legend about coastal civilizations that flooded after the collapse of the ice sheet at the end of the last ice age 11,500 years ago.

reply to post by LilDudeissocool


That makes more sense than most of the theories.

People under duress tend to embellish. And certainly, seeing ones' village sliding into the sea would qualify as 'duress'.

Thank you for the logic.