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HC's Ancient Aliens last episode "The Mystery of Puma Punku" DEVASTATED the show haters.
page: 28share:
Originally posted by The Shrike
Because of ATS policy about expressing one's true feelings I have to hold back but I can at least say that this reply is about as dumb as it gets. Worldwide biblical flood? You gotta be kidding, the archeological record does not support any of this religious flim flam.
Or the geological record or the fossil record.
There are flood myths around the world but this is not surprising, even without a great deluge as described in myths originating in Mesopotamia. Our ancestors, stretching back from the dawn of civilization into the most remote past, settled on rivers, lakes, or any significant water-source. Localized (even regional) flooding is a constant disaster faced by humans. It is only natural such myths enter our myths.
If we now look at all the mountain of Ancient Aliens information and evidence, it is more than obvious we have had contact in our civilizations
past/early days, its so overwhelming that only the most stubborn of skeptics still remain on the fence laughing, i suspect they will not admit it
until they ...the gods/ET, return again to make contact publicly with us, or as we call it, a landing on the lawn of the white house scenario,
The evidence is absolutely undeniable imo, and when we add that to the even bigger mountain of modern day evidence, then its absolutely obvious, you'd have to be dumb def and blind to deny it ALL, that's just my opinion tho, i doubt most average joes have done as much research as i have over there years so i guess sometimes you have to be understanding and sympathetic to all skeptics, but debunkers well, most of them know alot of the evidence out there and simply dismiss it in favor of incredibly stupid alternatives and 90% of the time do not offer any kind of answer other than, because its impossible or doesn't fit there belief system,
The evidence is absolutely undeniable imo, and when we add that to the even bigger mountain of modern day evidence, then its absolutely obvious, you'd have to be dumb def and blind to deny it ALL, that's just my opinion tho, i doubt most average joes have done as much research as i have over there years so i guess sometimes you have to be understanding and sympathetic to all skeptics, but debunkers well, most of them know alot of the evidence out there and simply dismiss it in favor of incredibly stupid alternatives and 90% of the time do not offer any kind of answer other than, because its impossible or doesn't fit there belief system,
I would like to post why Humans are unlikely to have made these structures.If they did it was using technology aka abilities that is now lost. In
every archeological site there is something called evidence. We know it is very likely that humans built Mesopotamian, Indus and Persian site. How can
we tell? Mesopotamia's buildings were made of mismatched stone and mud bricks. The Indus Valley had sites that were made out of baked brick. We all
know how mud brick and baked bricks are made. They don't require a great deal of effort to make..except cutting down trees for baked brick. Humans
can make bricks. Baked brick and pottery leave trails know as...the kiln---> There is your evidence for humans making brick and pottery. When it comes
to ancient Greece, you have evidence for their structures where made.
There is no evidence, for how the pyramids in Egypt or the Americas were made. There is no evidence for how Easter Island Statues were made. There is no evidence on how the Inca sites were made. The lack of evidence, for sites that were supposedly occupied/made by people is extremely suspicious. Why didn't they leave their tools behind if these were man made? There are plenty of examples of statues and obelisk being left at the stone quarry in Egypt and Easter Island but not TOOLS. That is hella suspicious. The only thing that comes to mind is that either these things weren't made by mere mortals or...that the tools implemented were much more occult like relying on human abilities that were lost or only known by a privileged few.
There is no evidence, for how the pyramids in Egypt or the Americas were made. There is no evidence for how Easter Island Statues were made. There is no evidence on how the Inca sites were made. The lack of evidence, for sites that were supposedly occupied/made by people is extremely suspicious. Why didn't they leave their tools behind if these were man made? There are plenty of examples of statues and obelisk being left at the stone quarry in Egypt and Easter Island but not TOOLS. That is hella suspicious. The only thing that comes to mind is that either these things weren't made by mere mortals or...that the tools implemented were much more occult like relying on human abilities that were lost or only known by a privileged few.
reply to post by chr0naut
Yes, they could have used much larger devices for polishing stones but it was the recessed cuts and interior angles that convinced me that something other than hand tools were used. Look at the H blocks for example - there are inside angles that would be impossible for someone with hammers and chisels to even reach into. It's a little hard to explain unless you have actually tried to make such cuts yourself but basically what happens is part of the rock would get in the way of trying to make these cuts inside.
Hammer and chisel are still the basic tools used by engravers today.
Yes, they could have used much larger devices for polishing stones but it was the recessed cuts and interior angles that convinced me that something other than hand tools were used. Look at the H blocks for example - there are inside angles that would be impossible for someone with hammers and chisels to even reach into. It's a little hard to explain unless you have actually tried to make such cuts yourself but basically what happens is part of the rock would get in the way of trying to make these cuts inside.
Hammer and chisel are still the basic tools used by engravers today.
Originally posted by WingedBull
Originally posted by Xtrozero
I say they used raw rock because everything about them was primitive.
There was nothing primitive about the people of Tiwanaku. Despite what the ancient alien proponent lie about, the Tiwanaku were not a stone-age culture. They had math, they had art, they had a complicated writing system known as Quipu, they had an advanced form of irrigation and crop production that protected yields from the worst droughts and freezes. The archaeological record shows a culture every bit as advanced as European cultures of the time. However, the ancient alien proponents need us to believe that Tiwanaku was a stone-age culture in order for us to believe they were incapable of constructing Pumapunku.
Quipu is not a writing system, its a counting system.
Originally posted by JiggyPotamus
So the aliens come down, and all they do is carve a bunch of blocks for the inhabitants? Certainly there would be machinery left today...Unless the aliens took it, right? I don't know anything about any aliens, but I do know that the ancients had a LOT of time on their hands...
When they built something, they weren't thinking in terms we are familiar with...I'm talking multiple decades; many of them, depending on what exactly they were doing. Have you seen what modern artists can produce with their hands? Back then, the artisans who chiseled all that rock labored harder and longer, most likely, than most modern sculptors. So I do not believe for one second that they didn't carve the stones themselves...
Time is the most important thing you have posted.They "had a lot of time on their hands". Define a lot. And define the average life span of the ancient peoples. Supposedly in the year 3000 BC the average life span of human beings was 24. This is also why, the idea of pyramids as tombs is being questioned as the average life span of pharaohs is thought to be around 30, meaning there was no feasible way for these architecture to be brought to fruition if only slave labor is being used. I must also add that the infant mortality rate is thought to be 30% at that time. So it seem there would have needed to be lots of people, disposable people, if they were the only way to build these structures.
It was a good show, didn't come over as crackpot as they sometimes do and even Giorgio Tsoukalos didn't seem as mental as usually does.
Not as dismissible as some of the ones before.
Not as dismissible as some of the ones before.
Originally posted by WarriorOfTheLight
If we now look at all the mountain of Ancient Aliens information and evidence, it is more than obvious we have had contact in our civilizations past/early days, its so overwhelming that only the most stubborn of skeptics still remain on the fence laughing, i suspect they will not admit it until they ...the gods/ET, return again to make contact publicly with us, or as we call it, a landing on the lawn of the white house scenario,
The evidence is absolutely undeniable imo, and when we add that to the even bigger mountain of modern day evidence, then its absolutely obvious, you'd have to be dumb def and blind to deny it ALL, that's just my opinion tho, i doubt most average joes have done as much research as i have over there years so i guess sometimes you have to be understanding and sympathetic to all skeptics, but debunkers well, most of them know alot of the evidence out there and simply dismiss it in favor of incredibly stupid alternatives and 90% of the time do not offer any kind of answer other than, because its impossible or doesn't fit there belief system,
There's a good reason that skeptics demand "proof" or do not accept everything at face value. Right now, this is all fun speculation. Even the show AA says in their opening credits: "What IF it were true."
To understand a skeptic or debunker's point of view, take a look at this in another way:
You've said that there is, " all the mountain of Ancient Aliens information and evidence", which is true, except that it's all circumstantial, theoretical, or opinions of "experts". Let's take that and put it in another way, a murder trial, with you as the defendant.
All the evidence is circumstantial and could easily be explained away. There is no actual body, no weapon and no clear motive of any kind. Yet the jury is sitting there and will believe anything they are fed. Especially since the only "witness" that are put on the stand, are people who have written books on murder, or those who present theories on how it's completely possible for you to have murdered someone.
Every time YOU put someone on the stand to show that you have an alibi, no motive, or to show that the evidence entered against you is being shown the wrong way, interpreted the wrong way, or that the testimonies of the "experts" is questionable due to their character (ulterior motives, such as being a paid expert), or that it's only theoretical, the prosecution turns around and tells the jury to ignore all that, and simply believe only what they are presenting.
And the jury eats it up, nods their head, and looks at you knowing for a FACT that you murdered someone. All because they are not willing to demand actual PROOF that you did commit this crime.
Put another way: you earn a paycheck because you do a job and work to earn it. What if you don't get that paycheck one day? When you demand to know why, you get told that there is a theory that you are not doing the work, that someone else is. Why should they pay you? They have theories that someone else showed up and did your work for you. That there is absolutely NO WAY you could have done the work, that it's way above your skill level. Someone else MUST have done it for you.
THIS is where skeptics and debunkers are coming from. Having an open mind is one thing. Buying everything you are told is not having an open mind however. It's called being gullible.
This show is ENTERTAINMENT. Nothing more.
If you take Ancient Aliens seriously, you may as well say Darth Vadar exists out there somewhere.
If you take Ancient Aliens seriously, you may as well say Darth Vadar exists out there somewhere.
Just a quick question , how many people does it take to move a 130 ton piece of granite ?
anyone ?
anyone ?
Originally posted by VelvetSplash
This show is ENTERTAINMENT. Nothing more.
If you take Ancient Aliens seriously, you may as well say Darth Vadar exists out there somewhere.
The chances of ancient aliens having been around is slightly more than the chances of darth vader having been around. If we get the truth one day maybe you'll be surprised.
One question that is often overlooked is that of the architectural and artistic style of Puma Punku/ Tiahuanaco, the design aspects of Puma Punku are
so extra ordinary one should see preceding developments in the archeological record of how they got there, and subsequently how this developed or
ended, but as far as i can see there is simply void.
One aspect i have looked at though is that of the Chakana pattern motif seen at these sites, now variations of this are seen elsewhere in the Andean region, thus it's commonly known as the Andean cross, but it can be argued Puma Punku has the best examples and the most variations on the theme, and is in probability the focal source for the motif.
It should be noted that the common understanding of the Chakana is that it represents the integration of the upper/middle/lower realms of time and space, Heavens, Earth and Underworld.
What has interested me, given some of the dates thrown around for Puma Punku, is that the best, and just about only , comparative approach to this motif and aspect of pattern making, dates reliably to around 11,000 years ago, and is found in Syria at the start of the early Neolithic development, on the worlds oldest mural, on the worlds oldest adobe brick wall, at Djade al-Mughara in Syria.
Neolithic Pattern
Second Mural
One of these patterns caused minor ripples of interest when first uncovered several years ago, as they looked kinda like modern art, was the general consensus, the second has not been widely seen, but i have reconstructed through digital graphics the premise of these patterns and they are truly remarkable for the period, and correspondant to the pattern making approach seen at Puma Punku.
The second pattern when seen repeated and stepped, as it appears to have been represented on the adobe brick wall, is also seen to be contained within a substructed armature of repeated 'H's, thus a culture concerning itself with this pattern could well develop an interest in interlocking H block architechtural forms.
What i haven't included in my reconstruction of this pattern for reasons of technical difficulty, is the cartouche/panneling of each motif and the 'T' or horizontal 'I' clamp like inter-connect seen at the top of each
These aspects do suggest to me that the artist was painting on the wall what he had seen elsewhere, interlocking clamped panels each bearing the motif.
In terms of artistic style developments, the paintings from Syria are also every bit as anomolous as that of Puma Punku to architectural.
The oldests examples of Chakana usage are thought at present to date to Carel in Peru to around 5,000 years ago.
Temple wall shaped as a Chakana -Andean Cross
One aspect i have looked at though is that of the Chakana pattern motif seen at these sites, now variations of this are seen elsewhere in the Andean region, thus it's commonly known as the Andean cross, but it can be argued Puma Punku has the best examples and the most variations on the theme, and is in probability the focal source for the motif.
It should be noted that the common understanding of the Chakana is that it represents the integration of the upper/middle/lower realms of time and space, Heavens, Earth and Underworld.
What has interested me, given some of the dates thrown around for Puma Punku, is that the best, and just about only , comparative approach to this motif and aspect of pattern making, dates reliably to around 11,000 years ago, and is found in Syria at the start of the early Neolithic development, on the worlds oldest mural, on the worlds oldest adobe brick wall, at Djade al-Mughara in Syria.
Neolithic Pattern
Second Mural
One of these patterns caused minor ripples of interest when first uncovered several years ago, as they looked kinda like modern art, was the general consensus, the second has not been widely seen, but i have reconstructed through digital graphics the premise of these patterns and they are truly remarkable for the period, and correspondant to the pattern making approach seen at Puma Punku.
The second pattern when seen repeated and stepped, as it appears to have been represented on the adobe brick wall, is also seen to be contained within a substructed armature of repeated 'H's, thus a culture concerning itself with this pattern could well develop an interest in interlocking H block architechtural forms.
What i haven't included in my reconstruction of this pattern for reasons of technical difficulty, is the cartouche/panneling of each motif and the 'T' or horizontal 'I' clamp like inter-connect seen at the top of each
These aspects do suggest to me that the artist was painting on the wall what he had seen elsewhere, interlocking clamped panels each bearing the motif.
In terms of artistic style developments, the paintings from Syria are also every bit as anomolous as that of Puma Punku to architectural.
The oldests examples of Chakana usage are thought at present to date to Carel in Peru to around 5,000 years ago.
Temple wall shaped as a Chakana -Andean Cross
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reply to post by Unknown Soldier
Well then live in ignorance, your choice. You have no clue how the buildings were created, hell you haven't even been to all the sights. But aliens did them? Great logic
Well then live in ignorance, your choice. You have no clue how the buildings were created, hell you haven't even been to all the sights. But aliens did them? Great logic
Originally posted by VelvetSplash
This show is ENTERTAINMENT. Nothing more.
If you take Ancient Aliens seriously, you may as well say Darth Vadar exists out there somewhere.
so we shouldn't take the sophisticated construction at PP seriously either? that would be ignorant
reply to post by Kantzveldt
Thats interesting I was wondering where this came from ,
the Maya used this in the Hanub Ku
it represents the underworld and the astral world with the milky way galaxy spiral
Thats interesting I was wondering where this came from ,
the Maya used this in the Hanub Ku
it represents the underworld and the astral world with the milky way galaxy spiral
reply to post by sapien82
Yes always those three aspects are associated with the symbol, and interestingly this gives possible insight into the colour symbolism of the Neolithic patterns from Syria, where the white could represent the upper Heavens, the red Earth, the black the underworld, the integration of the three realms
Yes always those three aspects are associated with the symbol, and interestingly this gives possible insight into the colour symbolism of the Neolithic patterns from Syria, where the white could represent the upper Heavens, the red Earth, the black the underworld, the integration of the three realms
Originally posted by WingedBull
There was nothing primitive about the people of Tiwanaku. Despite what the ancient alien proponent lie about, the Tiwanaku were not a stone-age culture. They had math, they had art, they had a complicated writing system known as Quipu, they had an advanced form of irrigation and crop production that protected yields from the worst droughts and freezes. The archaeological record shows a culture every bit as advanced as European cultures of the time. However, the ancient alien proponents need us to believe that Tiwanaku was a stone-age culture in order for us to believe they were incapable of constructing Pumapunku.
I agree with you. They were advance for their time, but only that. They didn't have super advance tools, mental powers, lost advance knowledge, alien friends etc. What they did have, and what we have seen though human history all over the world, is human ingenuity, abstract thinking to create and solve problems, and a lot of time to do it all. Give us humans a few 100 years on something and we do pretty good.
Look at were we are today compared to 500 years ago....I think it all has been aliens...