Why was jesus even necessary?

Originally posted by OldHag

Originally posted by Mister_Bit
reply to post by OldHag

 

Simple question: If god wants to save our souls and have us all there in his kingdom playing happy families, why not just do it? he is god.

That is right, if He want it, He only have to say it. But He give us a free will, and if you don't want Him as your Saviour and King, He never will make you against your will
.
Like in the last book of the Scripture says that He is knocking on many doors. If you want to open that door, it is your free will to do it, if you don't want to open it, it is your free will as well.

HAHA! Most the time, when someone is knocking, knocking, knocking on my door, it's the Jahova's Witnesses who live next door. I throw away their mailers and now I have to talk to them in person, with their bibles!?!

jesus freed his people from the corrupt priest of the time and the law of moses.

Jesus was sent to send the corrupt jews a message, clearly they didnt like it so they conspired to kill him, just as they will try to kill him when he returns, and just as they try to kill those today who bring their treacherous lies to the spotlight. Shame the lost christians support the corrupt jews of today who would try to kill Jesus if he stood in front of them, can't get much more brain-dead than that.

Oh and the whole, Jesus is a third of God and died for your sins rubbish is a joke full of contradicitons.

I believe Jesus was sent by the true god to expose the devil yahveh, lord of the earth, which keeps our souls trapped here in cycle of death and suffering. The way to escape is to live with the values of Jesus.

Too bad most world religions have manipulated man to worship the devil without even knowing it.

That light when you die, it's just a soul magnet to keep us trapped here, it is not where Jesus wanted people to go.

Originally posted by TKDRL
reply to post by Deny777

 

Plenty of great messages are much older and still going strong. The golden rule for example. They didn't need a sacrifice to accomplish it, what is the point of that part is what I don't understand.

The sacrifice was part of the PR plan, so to speak. Without it there was a risk that the message would have been lost - and to a point it has, since his idea was never creating a church that lives in the utmost luxury and concedes pardons in exchange for money and prayers.

Another reason why the sacrifice was necessary was because his message was divine in nature. A human message like the golden rule is easy to remember and spread, because it's very easily verifiable in our existence and it's also easy to relate to by practically anyone. A message that's divine in nature is by principle a lot harder to relate to, although admirable especially considering the virtues of the messenger, who was able to forgive any offense and love those who offended him. That alone was plenty of reason for people to look up to him and be interested in the message, but in order for it to endure throughout countless generations to come a more dramatic ending to his story was needed.

That's my opinion anyway, but I think it makes sense even for those who aren't religious or spiritualized.

reply to post by TKDRL


well this is where the whole sacrifice to save the world thing came from.

Jesus died to save the world from there sins.

You have to understand first that Jesus is a metaphor for the sun.
The ancient people knew that the Sun is what sustained life on earth.
They also knew that no one owned the sun.
They called it Gods Sun because no one could claim ownership of it.
They knew that without the sun life would be impossible.
they knew the sun gave life to us.
They would say "the sun of god gives life for us."

This eventually turned into Jesus Christ gave his life for us.

I know your looking for what Christians think but this is the real reason.

If you study & understand the "old testament" as it was intended, then you can see how Christianity was a Hellenic pagan apostasy started by Paul alone. He had no connection to the original apostles and caused huge problems among those walked with Jesus & were anointed by him. This is recorded in Acts.

You can compare the book of James, believed to be written by James the brother of Jesus, and compare it to the writings of Paul. It's obvious they had two completely different ideas. Jesus as he can be proven by history, was outspoken about the hypocrisy and obsession with rules in Judaism. He also spoke against the Romans. He may have believed that he & John the Baptist were the two messiahs (see next paragraph), but John was beheaded and this was proven incorrect. Verses in the new testament have him saying that he is NOT G-d and that G-d was a separate entity, that he was below G-d just as all of us are.

The new testament itself contains enough information to decode this & figure it out. The old testament was never "incomplete" and Jesus did not represent the dual messiahs the Jews were waiting for (a spiritual head & a governmental leader, such as Moses & Aaron were).

Christianity can only be "predicted" by the old testament when verses are taken completely out of context & warped beyond recognition. Even Isaiah 7:14, the linchpin of Christianity, when it is read in its proper context shows that it was a short-term prophecy that either happened or didn't many hundreds of years before Jesus & had nothing to do with him.

Does this help?

reply to post by Rapha



my computer has no viruses dwelling on a disk.
"evil", my friend, is nothing but a qualification.
in the external reality, things just are.
it's us human beans who feel the need to add attributes that phenomena that doesn't need these qualifications.

the same of course goes for "good"

and in my world, this is also true for "god"... it's a concept, originated in a feeble mind longing for certainties that aren't available.

reply to post by Mister_Bit


God loves us so much, that he is willing to let us choose hell, what a guy. I guess all those people born in the wrong places, that are raised under another religion are # out of luck.

Do you love your children so much you are willing to allow them to jump into a bonfire if they so choose?

reply to post by OldHag


He is knocking on many doors, I do not hear it. And it is not for lack of trying either. Once upon a time when I was an impressionable boy, my aunt and cousins told me about this wonderful jesus. How he would fill my heart with love and joy, all I had to do was become born again, ask, and be good. Asked away for five years or so, the only thing being part of the born again crew filled my heart with was guilt and fear. Was I not good enough then?

reply to post by the2ofusr1


Thanks, I will add that to my list of to read

That list is getting larger by the day lol. I think I got a backlist of at least two years worth of books to read

reply to post by jmdewey60


Rules or law, or however you want to think about it. Do this, don't do that, and you get to spend forever with me in heaven.

I just don't get how people say god does it out of love, giving us free will. Do you love your child so much you will let them to choose to play on the highway?

reply to post by windword


I used to have some young men who where JW come visit me once a month. I didn't mind talking to them a bit and hearing what they had to say, but then again I have always dug philosophy and psychology.

reply to post by biggmoneyme


He didn't do a very good job of it, as there are still plenty that follow moses law.

reply to post by Haxsaw


Why the whole cloak and dagger routine. Why not tell it to everyone himself, why does he only speak to so few?

reply to post by User8911


Interesting thought. What makes you so sure that your god is the right one, and not another devil or demon or however you want to think about it?

reply to post by Deny777


Why is it so admirable to forgive and forget everything. That whole bit sounds like a great way to keep people from standing up for themselves against rulers that wronged them. Turn the other cheek, forgive and forget, it's what jesus would do.

reply to post by TKDRL

Rules or law, or however you want to think about it. Do this, don't do that, and you get to spend forever with me in heaven.

I thought you meant to ask why God seems to have to follow some rules as if there is something more powerful out there.
This is where I diverge from the mainstream of Christianity in not thinking of God as all-powerful. That concept (of His being All Powerful) comes from the Greek version of the Old Testament where it uses Pantocrator where the Hebrew version says El Shaddai. The Greek word can be translated several different ways and a lot of Christians take the option, Almighty. I do not because I see Shaddai as meaning, Sovereign.

As for what rules people have to abide by, I think it is something like abiding in Christ, where it is an all-or-nothing proposition. This is what happened to the Adam and Eve characters in the Garden of Eden story. They placed themselves in rebellion against The Lord. Peace with God is what is the key and not individual trivial acts on our part.

Originally posted by NeverSleepingEyes
reply to post by Rapha

 

my computer has no viruses dwelling on a disk.
"evil", my friend, is nothing but a qualification.
in the external reality, things just are.
it's us human beans who feel the need to add attributes that phenomena that doesn't need these qualifications.

the same of course goes for "good"

and in my world, this is also true for "god"... it's a concept, originated in a feeble mind longing for certainties that aren't available.

Right on the money man. I feel as God talking through you ...

Kaching....

reply to post by jmdewey60


Ah that's a very interesting way of looking at it. Sometimes I wish I could understand ancient languages and read them as they had been written originally to ponder. The best thing about philisophical topics is that they always tend to lead to unexpected places, and leave me with many things to think about. Sovereign, that is interesting indeed.