Can't You See?

Originally posted by DJW001

because as we continue to grow exponentially, we will also be using exponentially larger amounts of resources... and with FINITE resources we cannot and will not be able to sustain this growth... no matter how many derivatives economical geniuses can come up with...

The least you could do is credit Malthus. Historically, humanity has been very good at finding "patches" for resource scarcity. I agree that the current situation is unsustainable, but the mathematical model is misleading. Populations are aging, even decreasing, in the "developed" world, while the "emerging" world is forced to find more sustainable solutions for their own wants. The world is certainly changing, but it won't happen overnight, or on a specific date, for that matter.

Malthus was a moron.

He was a doom-tard of low calibre. He did such and such math about how much corn a hectare of land could produce --all faulty maths.

His mental-offspring Paul Ehrlich wrote "The Population Bomb", and was another complete tool. He still gets play with the "humans = bad" death-doomers. What a bunch of chumps the human haters are. It is a sick meme that adheres to Malthus and Ehrlich, two massive twats.

In fact, their nemesis Julian Simon, is correct. Humans, are Earth's greatest resource. Oh sure I know there'll always be human-haters and abortion-lovers who feel that they are righteous and noble. It doesn't matter, however, because they all wilt when faced with the truths of the Principle of Plenty. I will be happy to debate these matters here or anywhere, as I have done before. Julian Simon's "The Ultimate Resource 2" is a far far better book than anything Malthus or Ehrlich every wrote, but you have to understand the death and doomtwats before you can understand the hopeful man who opposes them, Julian Simon, RIP.

Simon explained that Malthus and Ehrlich were stupid, and yet the humans-as-virus crowd really loves their message. They really want to frame human birth, as the worst event that can happen. But in truth, birth is a miracle. It is our fault that we have monetized life, and the result of that will always be doom-memes and those who orbit such fatalistic premises. Meh. Stupidity is free and cheap these days, like kool aid at Jonestown.

We all have an opinion....some of us collectively believe one way and some believe the other. Some think they know while others think they have an idea of what will come to pass while others do not see any signs.

I analyze events and what they mean to the rest of us. While I have no idea what is really going on, I see Earth changing. Is it changing because I have changed as I have gotten older or are they real changes that need to be addressed?

Here is what I see......

Earth Quakes increasing as well as their intensity.

Volcanic activity increasing as well.

Ice sheets melting

Floods increasing

Droughts increasing

Record temps

Record weather events (tie in with above)

Wars and rumors of wars increasing

Space junk and invisible ribbon at edge of solar system "may effect us in unknown ways". Sun behaving in ways that we are trying to understand. Our technology depends on the Sun's cooperation as we have become reliant on it in every way. If power grids go because of the Suns unusual behavior as we make our way into this "ribbon" we may find the change will start here.

On the verge of rethinking tectonic plates and the Universe creation (not big bang)

LHC (Cern) opening up new ideas and theories, possibly creating tiny black holes.

Oceans warming faster than previously thought.

Ocean life dying

Predictions from passed on entities who believed we are at present coming into a time that will change all of us.

Religious people claiming "end times" is upon us.

Web bot predicting a coming cataclysm.

Elenin, Nibiru, Wormwood, could be approaching our planet.

Alignments of planets as well as Sun and Moon are now being looked at as effecting our Planet as well.

Countries are now on the verge of economic collapse. All around the world we are seeing major changes and the talk of major changes in regards to money, food, etc....

New diseases and virus emerging.

I could go on and on but these are just some that come to mind. As a little girl and while growing up I didn't think about the above. I was busy playing. I cant really compare unless I compare data. Comparing data from previous years is not hard at all.

What I find most interesting is the fact we are seeing the Sun act weird....we can't understand it. The Sun may very well begin to put off huge flares. If any of these unusual flares reach us in ways they haven't in the past we may see our electricity out globally. If this were to happen.......how would that change your life? I began pondering that last night....

I am a Realtor....how would I show houses? How would I make copies of contracts, how would that change not only my business but the way I manage my household as well. LOL......We would not be able to see without candles, cant cook without an old grill (need to buy some coal), couldn't dry my hair anymore, and the list goes on and on. We would see major changes without electricity. I wonder what Walmart and gas stations will do if something like this were to happen? How long could we go without electricity before we would have to revert back to planting seeds for food?

Anyway......as long as it was.....that is my opinion. The Earth is changing and so is everything else....seemingly at the same time. All we can really do is live our life, not worry, and hopefully be proactive in a sense but not to get carried away with irrational thinking as we are not promised tomorrow anyway.

The only preparation I have done is can foods, water, candles and buying seeds just in case I will need to create a garden. I do believe we will see a day where the Sun cuts off our grids for a long while. This invisible ribbon we are going through or will be going through may indeed cause this to become a reality

reply to post by smallpeeps

In fact, their nemesis Julian Simon, is correct. Humans, are Earth's greatest resource

I like that... that is empowering...and "with great power comes great responsibility" (peter parker's grand dad).. haha.. but in all seriousness... that is the truth... until everybody realizes that we need to be more responsible for our actions and not just depleting all our resources in the name of the mighty dollar

reply to post by smallpeeps


You may consider Simon as a hero, but the issue here is that the OP reflects the notions of Malthus. Do you disagree with that?

Simon explained that Malthus and Ehrlich were stupid

Apparently your arrogant attitude missed the point completely. What Malthus showed was that for a given technology there is a limit to resource consumption. Simon claimed that as resource restrictions were encountered people would invent new technologies. That isn't always possible.

Meh. Stupidity is free and cheap these days, like kool aid at Jonestown. /quote]
Such as the belief that technological solutions exist for all problems.

reply to post by MamaJ


Quakes and volcanoes are not increasing.
Droughts are not increasing.

Floods are increasing in frequency and in intensity. The reason is well known: the actions of people through farming, forestry, construction etc.

Wars are not increasing either.

The list goes on and on and I think that the problem is that you perceived issues that are not there because you think something is happening. You might want to actually stop and find out if these changes are real.

There have been record settings in weather for as long as weather has been recorded. There are many places recording weather and all sorts of things to record. It can be the hottest, the driest, the windiest, the coldest, the rainiest, the the snowiest, the most lightning, the highest dew point, and so forth. There are lots of ways to set records. There are also short term records. The hottest or coldest day in 20 years.

Originally posted by stereologist
Apparently your arrogant attitude missed the point completely. What Malthus showed was that for a given technology there is a limit to resource consumption. Simon claimed that as resource restrictions were encountered people would invent new technologies. That isn't always possible.

[...]

Such as the belief that technological solutions exist for all problems.

Haha, good stuff.

No, I didn't miss the point.He did not say "as resource restrictions were encountered" he said that it would happen naturally, and he proved to the fact from history, that it does happen that way. His point is that the reall assheads are on the other side, because whenever that 'barrier' is felt, the fear-mongering doomers who run the mob (as per Silent Weapons for Quiet Wars, aka economic warfare) will try to project doom outward, as do Malthus and his ilk.

Think about it: Why are these people so hot to see humans as locusts, and to then plan for the locusts? It is a dis-eased heart and mind, that sees humans as being a bad thing. Humans do what they are told, and if they are told to consume (by say Edward Bernays and psych-asses who run the consumption-mob) then that is what they will do.

Nobody is trying to heal the mind of the humans, and you must admit that. I think that is where Simon really excels. He was a champion of motherhood, and of humans. Also he proved that he was right, and he publically destroyed P. Ehrlich any time the two went head to head. One has funding (death lovers and Ehrlich), the other had to fight to even be heard. Point is this: Death and psychosis, sells.

As for your second comment about how I am the one who is worshiping tech, well, that is obviously false. It take high tech to empower an MD to be a babywrecker, aka, womb-broomer, aka, fetus murderer. So you see, the system, is set up, to empower thousands of papered, and collegiately educated baby-wreckers. That is Earth: The child is both the most desired fuel, and also the most feared item. So the nascent human must be killed or controlled, according to the people who run this world. It is simple, and I am glad you have allowed me to frame the real issue. I am very ready to discuss the particulars. Yes I understand all the points you will make, Simon is outnumbered by the human haters. Yet, his ideas were true and will be applied once this old system collapses under its own weight. In the future, we will wake up and stop hating our consumption, we will simply act individually, every day, to be less consumptive and more innovative. In the future, we will be allowed to do this, where as now, we are disallowed. Today, we are forced to work for babykillers and their colleges who claim to "protect women" via organized slaughter of humans. Tomorrow, we will welcome every human. Is it so impossible for you to love all these potential future humans, considering how short life is? That is the crux of this matter. No arguments of "supply" and "demand" will be tolerated now that I know you understand Simon versus Ehrlich. The only question is: How quickly can humans adjust and will they be allowed to do so.

reply to post by stereologist

people would invent new technologies. That isn't always possible.

that is were i'm at... i just don't see human ingenuity getting us out of this one...it's just not happening these days... with all the crap going on in the world... everybody seems to be too busy chasing their tail... well some are stumbling around but the TPTB sure don't want us to stop consuming crude oil let alone come up with any ideas that would cut back on our consumption...

reply to post by 11azerus11

There're projections of population growth. I think one of them went several hundred years out (like 300-500) and it became very clear that at present rates there will be too many people. Every square foot would have a human on it. I don't remember the details but I know that all the knowledge I've seen tells me that our future is a strange place. We don't understand it right now. We certainly won't be like we're now because we can't be. Reminds me of Star Trek. One thing that always bothered me about the Star Trek shows is that it was like they took someone from the 20th century and put them in a 24th century environment, but they forgot to change the people (among other things). We won't be the same in a few hundred years, nor will the things we do be the same. People in Star Trek are too easy to relate to, and that's what's misleading.

A true show about the future will not be so pleasant and easy going. I think most people would not understand it nor would they like it. We would not agree with their customs. But this hypothetical show would not depend on ratings, so it could go on its merry way telling us the truth instead of pandering to us. We will be a lot more tolerant and mindful in the future. This is true when you look through history. As we go back in time people tend to become more conservative and intolerant. So as the clock turns we should see more tolerance and less conservatism. That doesn't mean there won't be conservatism in the future, there will be. But liberals and conservatives in the future will will be considerably more tolerant than today.

We may even see an atheist one day become the president of our nation. Or a gay or asexual.

As for you referencing 2012, it's much ado about nothing. If we get it by a solar storm in the next 40 years then that will be the next closest thing to a global disaster. We're reliant on an outdated electrical infrastructure that cannot sustain an appreciable solar event. Yet, it might require trillions(?) to renovate. So more than likely we'll continue using it until the big one hits. Then we'll be forced to upgrade. Similarly, WW2 forced us to crawl out of the great depression.

We should focus less on the year and more on the goals we have to make heaven on earth. The problem with religion is that it always puts heaven in the next life, out of reach. Making heaven on earth will mean a lot of work and heart ache and sacrifice. But life has got better as we've moved forward and it'll no doubt continue to do that long into the future. Making heaven is something we'll forever do. There're the ebbs and tides. And to be frank, a perfect heaven would be an unchanging place so I don't think we'd want that. But a better place, a better human world: those are noble goals that make reaching for the summit a worthwhile purpose.

That's why we should remember those who came before us. We're all part of destiny.

reply to post by smallpeeps


Just because Simon was right twice is hardly making him right all of the time. He was wrong on the lumber issue> he had his excuse, too. The problem is that his assumption that a new technology can be developed is not a given. Some areas such as the "green revolution" are not panning out.

It really doesn't matter if Simon was a champion of motherhood or what his or others stances are on abortion or other such issues. That has nothing to do with the issue. Whether or not death sells is not the issue. The issue is that there are limits to technological advances. Limitations are well known in science. There is only so much energy that can be captured from the Sun. There is only so much arable land. There are all sorts of limits.

As for your second comment about how I am the one who is worshiping tech, well, that is obviously false.

Another straw man argument.

It take high tech to empower an MD to be a babywrecker, aka, womb-broomer, aka, fetus murderer. So you see, the system, is set up, to empower thousands of papered, and collegiately educated baby-wreckers.

Another pointless straw man argument.

Simon is outnumbered by the human haters.

Your claim, not anyone else's here.

Yet, his ideas were true and will be applied once this old system collapses under its own weight.

Your wish or do you have evidence for this claim?

Today, we are forced to work for babykillers and their colleges who claim to "protect women" via organized slaughter of humans.

No one is forcing you to do this.

Is it so impossible for you to love all these potential future humans, considering how short life is?

Yet another straw man argument.

So basically you don't understand that Simon and Malthus were discussing the same issue,but Simon says that Malthus' condition is never met because there must exist a technology that prevents such issues.

It is certainly not clear that is the case.

Originally posted by stereologist
reply to post by MamaJ

 

Quakes and volcanoes are not increasing.
Droughts are not increasing.

Floods are increasing in frequency and in intensity. The reason is well known: the actions of people through farming, forestry, construction etc.

Wars are not increasing either.

The list goes on and on and I think that the problem is that you perceived issues that are not there because you think something is happening. You might want to actually stop and find out if these changes are real.

There have been record settings in weather for as long as weather has been recorded. There are many places recording weather and all sorts of things to record. It can be the hottest, the driest, the windiest, the coldest, the rainiest, the the snowiest, the most lightning, the highest dew point, and so forth. There are lots of ways to set records. There are also short term records. The hottest or coldest day in 20 years.

Well it looks as if we will need to agree to disagree. I have done my research and have concluded all of what I typed is the real deal. You are entitled to your own opinion.

reply to post by 11azerus11


Sure we could have cars that get all get a minimum of 50 miles per gallon. The problem is that people want safety and powerful engines. There are all sorts of 10 mpg vehicles on the road. People want to survive a crash. People want to have AC and roomy interiors and take piles of stuff on vacation. All of this makes the high mpg vehicles more difficult to build.

One of the main limiting factors is food production. The green revolution has its limits just like all other technologies.

Originally posted by stereologist
So basically you don't understand that Simon and Malthus were discussing the same issue,but Simon says that Malthus' condition is never met because there must exist a technology that prevents such issues.

It is certainly not clear that is the case.

I do understand, that you have removed the arguments you can't understand.

You'd need a heart to understand, but all you got, is a pencil.

Since you reduce the human future to a mathematical certainty of doom, and say that I do not understand the depths of our doom, then I will let you carry on bringing tears to the eyes of the world.

It would be something if one of you "condition = X" Malthus mathtards would stand on someone else's shoulders than Malthus, but I guess he's the best you got.

Let me know if you want to discuss Bernays, or the shaping of consumption as a value... You know, all the critically important ideas and truths you just breezed by. Just let me know if you want to return to those issues, I'll let you avoid them, however, if you wish. Just want you to be comfy like a baby sealed in his mother's womb.

Originally posted by 11azerus11
reply to post by Forevever

 

i dread the day that i lose somebody close to me... but i believe that our soul is an energy... and according to newton... energy can not be destroyed just moved.... that is how i've come to the conclusion (in my mind) of reincarnation... i believe you will know him again on a different leg of this journey

a memory of death crosses through the gateway into the mind...
Joey (the muscle man in our brain): "We're going to live forever. I'm discarding this thought."
Doey (the thoughtful preacher): "Death is imminent for us all. This thought has value."
Conclusion: Joey and Doey agree to disagree and the thought is buried in a mess of boxes.

The brain doesn't know how to process death. But I believe it's true: once you're dead, you can't worry any longer. I would think that death is a lot more like sleeping than it's anything else. The pain isn't so much in dying or death, it's in the living who have to live with their memories of the dead. The longer you live, the more memories you have of those who're no longer with you. It's like carrying a mausoleum in your head. It must get heavy up there - a depressing thought.

I've never found myself wanting the world to end. I did think the world was ending in 2001 for religious reasons. Back then I was a christian and fell for a wild conspiracy theory that Jesus was coming back. But I grew out of that and now many years later I look upon doom & gloom with a critical eye. Science replaced god. It's the only thing that keeps me happy anymore. Most human things get me down and sad. I understand the feeling here. But I think we have to keep our head up and look outward and keep exploring. Reasons for living aren't easy to come by.

Is nothing else except the slavery in law for near future,plus after 2013, unimaginable tyranny will be set up for human race.

Originally posted by xamo1
Is nothing else except the slavery in law for near future,plus after 2013, unimaginable tyranny will be set up for human race.

So it's over before it's even started?

ABDUCTIONS were occurring long before 1972, early civilizations refer to these incidents. The document stated that humans and animals were being abducted and or mutilated. Many vanished without a trace. They were taking sperm and OVA samples, tissues, performed surgical operations, implanted a spherical device, (40 to 50 microns in size near the optic nerve in the brain) and all attempts to remove the device have resulted in the death of the patient. The document estimated that one (1) in every 40 people had been implanted. This implant was said to give the Aliens total control of the Human.

Originally posted by xamo1
ABDUCTIONS were occurring long before 1972, early civilizations refer to these incidents. The document stated that humans and animals were being abducted and or mutilated. Many vanished without a trace. They were taking sperm and OVA samples, tissues, performed surgical operations, implanted a spherical device, (40 to 50 microns in size near the optic nerve in the brain) and all attempts to remove the device have resulted in the death of the patient. The document estimated that one (1) in every 40 people had been implanted. This implant was said to give the Aliens total control of the Human.

Ok, so lets assume you're right and we're cattle. What can a cow do? If a farmer tells you to do such and such? If that's our situation, then there's nothing that can be done. My position is that we don't know for sure. We don't even know, assuming this is true, what the farmer is trying to farm. In the absence of evidence, I default. All we can do when we're in the dark is to go on what we know. It's the most reliable thing we can do. Call us stupid. Whether we're wrong or right it doesn't matter if we're going to be slaughtered anyway, right? So let us dream away, and if it turns out that this isn't a slaughterhouse then we will be all the better for it.

Originally posted by DJW001
The least you could do is credit Malthus. Historically, humanity has been very good at finding "patches" for resource scarcity. I agree that the current situation is unsustainable, but the mathematical model is misleading. Populations are aging, even decreasing, in the "developed" world, while the "emerging" world is forced to find more sustainable solutions for their own wants. The world is certainly changing, but it won't happen overnight, or on a specific date, for that matter.

Quite true. Malthus (if I'm remembering correctly) thought we couldn't achieve today's populations -- and we sure couldn't with the technology available during his lifetime.

One big factor that is changing the world is education. As people become healthier (no 80% mortality rate for children) and women become more educated, they marry later (not at age 13 and 14 but wait till much later) and have children later. They also have fewer children.

reply to post by smallpeeps

I do understand, that you have removed the arguments you can't understand.

You'd need a heart to understand, but all you got, is a pencil.

Since you reduce the human future to a mathematical certainty of doom, and say that I do not understand the depths of our doom, then I will let you carry on bringing tears to the eyes of the world.

It would be something if one of you "condition = X" Malthus mathtards would stand on someone else's shoulders than Malthus, but I guess he's the best you got.

All you have is your repugnant name calling, straw man arguments, and a single person to hide behind.

This is not a matter of heart, but of understanding the issues - which you clearly choose not to do.

To claim this is a mathematical certainty of human doom is to propose yet another in a long string of straw man arguments.

What does anything you post have to do with the discussion at hand?

It is Lucifer who the reptilians take orders from. This is ultimately a war between good & evil. The true Creator vs Lucifer (Satan) and his followers. This is a war over our souls & minds! The outcome of the war is already decided - Satan has lost. But meanwhile... Satan will take with him as many as he possible can.
The universe has so many life forms in so many different dimensions and we are only living in this dimension, many ET's have come to deceive us so we stay ignorant and indirectly serve their many purposes. they have genetically manipulated our genes and intelligence so we can be what our farm animals are. there is so much information about this and if you are intelligent you will realize that religions were part of their manipulation plans