Can't You See?

What will happen 2012? What is most likely going to happen? I love all the 2012 theories I really do... but they always lack good solid evidence that prove anything beyond a reasonable doubt... I think what will really happen is staring at us right in the face.... ask yourself this.... How can we have an INFINITE growth paradigm based on FINITE resources? We can't unless we get off this rock and find a planet that is entirely crude oil.... we simply wont... the general population growth formula is an exponential formula in the shape of a J curve... P(t)=(P0)e^rt... and it will make a graph like this

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/2fe08eb67c13.gif[/atsimg]

now here is a graph of the world human population

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/bc38246bcb14.gif[/atsimg]

notice the similarities? what's the problem? the problem is that the graph will NEVER EVER reach the asymptote... so for our discussion lets move the asymptote to dec. 21, 2012.... our growth will collapse at the asymptote... why will it collapse? because as we continue to grow exponentially, we will also be using exponentially larger amounts of resources... and with FINITE resources we cannot and will not be able to sustain this growth... no matter how many derivatives economical geniuses can come up with... you know... the point of collapse might not be 2012 but it is coming and it is very very real...

Most theories on 2012 are based on you tube videos... mine is based on math, simple math at that.... what do you think?

S+F.

Math has never been my forte, yet I could understand that pretty clearly.

I don't the hittin' the "peak" of the asymptote will necessarily be 2012, like you said, but have always felt it's something that's going to happen within our lifetime.

Nice graphs too btw

Western civilization needs to breed more prodigiously.

To keep up I mean.

It'll be fun.

I agree with you completely, America should outlaw having kids.

Problem solved.

I see and understand the graph...but I don't understand how that means something will happen in the Year 2012.

The earths population is obviously growing exponentially and the resources are obviously being drained...but how does that mean the world will end in the next 2 years?

reply to post by smallpeeps



i think human's are capable of amazing feats when staring death in the face... but right now I think we're to distracted to keep up... =0( we need to just cut our loses now and basically start over

reply to post by 11azerus11

I love all the 2012 theories I really do

I can't understand people who make such a silly statement, what your basically saying is; "I can't wait to watch all my loved ones die!". Something kind of sick about that.

To answer your population rise theory; Necessity is the mother of invention.

Also the rise in population isn't a resource problem, it a social one. If we didn't live the way we do (excessively) we would be good for a while yet.

ALS

reminds me of something I read... about how knowledge doubles....
(pausing to poke around in favorites)

ugh! can't find it

but it went something like....
in the beginning it took us thousands of years to double our knowledge
then like.... (yeah forgive me for putting this all in dummy terms) around the year 1900 we were doubled - then we doubled again in like 50 years, then we doubled again in like 25 years - which leave us now with the rate of knowledge doubling like yearly

What made the article interesting was the idea that if there is a finite number, then our knowledge will double back over itself - I don't remember the technical terms they used or exact numbers - something to think about though.. what happens when it does that? could that be the shift in consciousness so many expect with 2012?

While I can't remember the article I can say this.... We already have shifted IMHO - there is a collective consciousness now that didn't exist 10 years ago

we call it the internet - I think its just the beginning - I can't even fathom what comes next, and I believe no other human alive has even begun to think it up yet...

but I'm rambling ♥

I tried to find the source, but this was the closest thing to an accurate title, and I was intimidated by all the words (mine had pretty pictures and graphs) so I didn't read it to make sure, but I will later when I'm more awake - forgive me again

My short answer is - I agree S&F

reply to post by Elsek


sorry i forgot to tie in the maya... I was basing it on if the Maya got there time line (cycle) right... does that make sense? so if they got it right and everything changes on that day.... What would most likely happen to us? and this is what I think would be the most likely scenario... a collapse of the world economy

reply to post by ALOSTSOUL

boy a lot of people posted while I was looking for that article...

I can't understand people who make such a silly statement, what your basically saying is; "I can't wait to watch all my loved ones die!".

I appreciate that you can't understand - most people can't

I think its easier if you watch someone suffer, day in and day out, with no possible relief in sight except for death. Now I do realize wishing for the end of the world is a permanent solution to a temporary problem - but history shows that problems never really go away - they're just replaced with new and different problems.

Therefore I believe, that people who wish for the end (myself included), just want the suffering to stop all over, and cannot think of any other way for it to come about.

I do not wish to "watch" my family suffer - I would HOPE they do not suffer - in fact I hope if there is a cataclysmic event that it lands right on top of my house so I don't have to suffer either

When imagining the post apocalyptic world (depending of course which one I pick), I'm pretty sure in about 80 to 90% of the cases, I DO NOT want to survive.

reply to post by 11azerus11


Good thread 11azerus11, it kind of reminds me of a thread posted by "Lazarus Short" no more than two hours before this thread. Weird.

Isn't it funny that Humans are clearly spreading like a virus, whilst at the same time some absolutely brain dead morons believe gay people threaten our existence.

because as we continue to grow exponentially, we will also be using exponentially larger amounts of resources... and with FINITE resources we cannot and will not be able to sustain this growth... no matter how many derivatives economical geniuses can come up with...

The least you could do is credit Malthus. Historically, humanity has been very good at finding "patches" for resource scarcity. I agree that the current situation is unsustainable, but the mathematical model is misleading. Populations are aging, even decreasing, in the "developed" world, while the "emerging" world is forced to find more sustainable solutions for their own wants. The world is certainly changing, but it won't happen overnight, or on a specific date, for that matter.

reply to post by ChaoticOrder


haha... i just read that thread... that is weird... synchronicity... it seems to be every where... i use to think i was just paranoid.. but just too many "weird" coincidences these days...

reply to post by Forevever

I think its easier if you watch someone suffer, day in and day out, with no possible relief in sight except for death. Now I do realize wishing for the end of the world is a permanent solution to a temporary problem - but history shows that problems never really go away - they're just replaced with new and different problems.

What suffering? Personally suffering? Does that give you the right to wish the whole world dead?

I have been through some pretty harrowing stuff in my 23 years, stuff that would make your toes curl. But not once have I wished that the world would end (perhaps just my own). I find the whole "doomer" thing a very big sign that some believe they live in a depressed and insane society, when in actuality we do not.

ALS

reply to post by ALOSTSOUL

I would NEVER downplay your 23 years
but in my 37 years I've seen MANY people suffering first hand - I didn't even need to turn on the news

I'm happy for you that you have not, but thats why you have no empathy for the topic at hand.

It doesn't matter anyway, the world is not going to end in our lifetime.

ETA sorry, you say you have - well, perhaps I'm overly sensitive to it - but that was my misread - I apologize


sorry further edit - I apologize, I shouldn't post when I'm tired
consider 2 things though

if you're religious and believe in afterlife - why wouldn't you want a trip to paradise?
if you're not religious and believe there is nothing - and everyone dies - why would it matter? there's no one left to mourn, and you're dead - you won't know it anyway

reply to post by Forevever


I see what your saying now, external suffering. Empathy is one crazy emotion isn't it.

ALS

reply to post by DJW001


i'd never heard of him.... I was just trying to think of the most likely scenario to occur if the Mayans were right.... and what would most likely cause a paradigm shift as they suggest will happen on that day... I just didn't buy into nibiru or elenin or an alien invasion a whole 100%... even tho those would be much more exciting scenarios

reply to post by ALOSTSOUL

I find the whole "doomer" thing a very big sign that some believe they live in a depressed and insane society, when in actuality we do not.

I would never wish such doom upon our world...but society is insane. Just sayin.

reply to post by ALOSTSOUL

Thank you for understanding ♥

I do think I'm overly sensitive though I would never claim to be an empath... I think I am

I did recently watch someone very close to me die, in a lot of pain and suffering.... while I hurt for to have him back - its purely selfish - in my heart I know he's better off - in nothingness or in heaven - either way works for me

reply to post by Forevever


i dread the day that i lose somebody close to me... but i believe that our soul is an energy... and according to newton... energy can not be destroyed just moved.... that is how i've come to the conclusion (in my mind) of reincarnation... i believe you will know him again on a different leg of this journey