Decriminalise all drugs, says ex-minister Bob Ainsworth

EDIT: Alright, maybe I'm getting too detailed about the drug refining process

My point is that purity of either powdered coc aine or marijuana (in oil form) is still the same chemically as when it is on the plant, except it is refined and the process does use other chemicals (but they are taken out of the refined product). Crack coc aine uses other chemicals in the process and in the end product (crack), so it is not pure coc aine and is a very sketchy drug indeed.

I dont think that all drugs should be decriminalized!! There are drugs out there man that can get people highly addicted or even kill them. There should be made a difference between harmless illegal drugs as for example weed and harmful drugs like crack, heroine, coc aine, '___' and what else is out there that should not really be legalized. Sure there are millions of drug dealers imprisoned with outrageous sentences. That is what needs to be changed; the law. Imagine a world where all drugs are legal and everybody would be on crack???!!! WTF would our world be lol...Not a good idea. I am for legalization of marijuana because really it doesn't have any serious side effects, plus it would benefit our slow economy as well. New jobs would be created, tourists would probably come to the US just like they visit Amsterdam for that one particular reason.. Crime rates would go down and the police would have time to focus on more serious crimes again and all the people that are in jail now could be freed and so much money would be safed... The US government should really take this thing in consideration.... All the other drugs wear you out and make you sick and might even kill you! My personal opinion!

Originally posted by christina-66
reply to post by Kailassa

 

This was NOT an article on the net...but in a national daily newspaper. It sat about my house all day and could NOT suddenly disappear. The headline was 4cm tall....not requiring careful reading and throughout the article it repeated the claim. I have complained to the paper

Fine, but I was trying to help you, by showing the article to which your dead link had previously lead.

And I offered some useful advice, because you are far from the first poster to assume an article is reporting facts when a careful analysis would show it's full of crap.

Who cares what size font the headline was?
I was suggesting carefully reading the article, not carefully reading the headline.

Originally posted by christina-66
reply to post by Kailassa

 

Good grief - Kailassa - this was sorted yesterday. Despite this correction the drug problems here are chronic with varying degrees of useage dependent on where in the country you live. Now I live close to one of the most deprived towns in the country with the greatest numbers of addicts. There are no jobs in the town...and haven't been in any numbers since the 1970's. We have intergenerational addiction problems that is now hitting the third and even fourth generation. Complacency nor sumgness are options.

No, nowhere, in this thread, before the post I answered, was it mentioned that the newspaper article you linked to had confused prescription numbers with patient numbers.

Originally posted by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi


Powdered form is still acceptable, in my opinion. The only problem with coc aine is that it is way too easy for anyone to make into crack, which is not the same and is very bad. I call coc aine a soft drug because, for one, that's what it is "marketed" as, and two it is a "party drug" that has short-term effects.

Coke is much more dangerous than you know. You have experienced it in a recreational way and can no doubt provide lots of anecdotal evidence as to how it is safe, as might I. It may feel 'soft' but there is nothing soft about it. Look up vasoconstriction. This is what coc aine does to you - it restricts the blood supply to your brain. Can you imagine why that might not be something you'd want to do too much?! That's why it's one of the worst drugs imo, along with other amphetamines.

You should speak to some people that have had to deal with the negative effects of coc aine. I could tell you a story that would chill your bones, infact, why not? 25 year old, works full time in a bank, infrequent user of drugs, out at the weekend with a group of friends, has two lines of coke and suffers a stroke. Constricting the supply of blood to the brain will do that. Not very often, but your chances of having a stroke are MUCH higher when you take coke. He ends up in A+E, surrounded by his friends and all he can do is cry. That's because the stroke has caused him to lose the ability to form words, all that comes out is gobbledegook. So he can't say what's he's feeling but we can guess it isn't good. These parts of the brain don't repair themselves so he's left with very little chance of regaining his speech. Can you imagine for 2 seconds what that would be like? Not able to speak to anyone ever again? It sounds like something out of a horror story and I didn't want to believe it when I heard that story - but since then I've seen it happen with my own eyes. And he was lucky it didn't effect his ability to understand language, because that can happen too.

As I say, I'm for legalisation and I am no way anti-drugs. But for me, coke is too dangerous for not enough rewards - and it's certainly NOT a soft drug.

Originally posted by Freeborn
reply to post by Kailassa

 

This was clarified pretty early in the thread.
christina-66 did nothing wrong and has no need to apologise.
In fact, I think she's done great by highlighting a blatant case of sensationalist journalism and is going directly to souce.
She is obviously concerned about the levels of addiction in her hometown and recognises that the current policy isn't working and never will.

I never asked Christina to apologise for anything.

On the contrary, I tried to help her by locating her linked source, which she couldn't do and giving some friendly advice.
Don't you agree that it's useful to know about the existance of cached articles?
Don't you agree that posters should think a bit about the factual basis of an article before posting its conclusions?

reply to post by Extralien



Drug addiction is a mental, physical, and spiritual malady. It has been diagnosed as a disease in the fact that there is evidence, most people with alcohol or addiction problems are born with it. Weather that gene is activated through a persons life time depends on varying factors, such as exposure, family life, childhood, usage habits, and many more. We are made to believe that drug usage in America is such a terrible thing, but the truth is, an extremely small percentage of people are actually alcoholics or addicts in this country. There is no cure for addiction to do this day. People can be addicted to anything, gambling, food, sex, alcohol, shopping/spending, etc.
In the past couple of years a prototype project has taken place in Washington state(I believe), to offer addicts clean needles, a place to use their drugs, and medical care. It has proven to lower diseases,crimes,arrests, and tax payer money spending in that area.Some countries in Europe have adopted the same with great success rates.
Would you deny somebody with the disease of Cancer treatment? Would you deny someone with the disease of diabeties help? Alcoholism/addiction is a disease, and addicts should have options of getting help if they choose to accept it, and should not be discriminated against for something they were born with.
The studies are out there and the numbers and facts are in, helping addicts will save tax payers money, make less people fill the jails and prisons, encourage ex users to get jobs without criminal records and give back too the community, lower the spread of STDs, stop funding warlords and drug cartels, and make America a safer, better place.

Originally posted by ImNotBlinded
Imagine a world where all drugs are legal and everybody would be on crack???!!! WTF would our world be lol...Not a good idea.

Sorry, but that is faulty logic... are you just waiting for the day for drugs to be decriminalized to hurry over and fire up a crack pipe? What makes you think everybody else would?

In fact, if you checked some earlier posts (like this one: www.abovetopsecret.com... ) with actual experimental data, all facts point to the opposite phenomenon occurring.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I interpret your argument as:
a) you feel like you need the government to spend your money protecting you from yourself.
or b) you feel that you are somehow better than the vast majority who need some sort of protection from themselves.

When the use of drugs is a criminal offense, all the suppliers are criminals.
- Criminals who have a powerful financial incentive in pushing their wares to create new addicts.

Decriminalise drugs and the major force causing addiction is removed.

We're not going to have a world full of addicts just because drug-taking becomes legal. I've had medically pure heroin prescribed for years, in Australia. I love the stuff, but have rarely used it, (never yet even half emptied a pack before it's expired,) because there's so much living I want to do with all my wits about me.

Originally posted by Billmeister

Originally posted by ImNotBlinded
Imagine a world where all drugs are legal and everybody would be on crack???!!! WTF would our world be lol...Not a good idea.

Sorry, but that is faulty logic... are you just waiting for the day for drugs to be decriminalized to hurry over and fire up a crack pipe? What makes you think everybody else would?

In fact, if you checked some earlier posts (like this one: www.abovetopsecret.com... ) with actual experimental data, all facts point to the opposite phenomenon occurring.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I interpret your argument as:
a) you feel like you need the government to spend your money protecting you from yourself.
or b) you feel that you are somehow better than the vast majority who need some sort of protection from themselves.

edit on 17-12-2010 by Billmeister because: fixed link... sorry

I dont know where you get that from child but you need to fall back. I am AGAINST decriminalization for hard drugs, seems like you had too many because you can absolutely not comprehend rofl I said imagine a world where all drugs would be legal, everybody on crack, wtf (where the hell) would our world be. Now you tell me where I support being on drugs in that statement. LOL, you dont even know what you're talking about. I feel like we need to invest more money in your education so you know how to interpret arguments the right way - no offense

Originally posted by Intelearthling
reply to post by SeaWind

 

I can't agree with you more. A star to you.

It seems that the government sees the clean and sober population as a threat to their agenda.

If governments can make drugs illegal and then legal, then they surely possess the power to make it mandatory to where citizens must be on drugs to keep them under control.

"You don't need to work. You don't need to better yourself. We'll make that decision for you. Go smoke this crack and shut up."

This is ridiculous, it sounds like you have no knowledge of the last 100 years in America. People with different ideas who enjoy using or growing drugs have been persecuted relentlessly. They have made the act of exploring ones mind, healing ones body and consuming what one desires a crime! How is that for MANDATORY...how about the wonderful MANDATORY sentences for drugs we have now? How about my depression...the drug companies have no problem giving me DRUGS that have KILLED people...but god forbid I smoke marijuana which has killed NO ONE!

The cognitive dissonance on ATS shocks me sometimes. The whole point of the CIA bringing in coke is so minorities can be crushed through the "justice system". Pull you're head out of the moon dust. They already ARE making the decision for me, you and everyone else.

I have the right to either take or not take drugs and suffer no repercussions at another's hand.

reply to post by SmokeandShadow


You are wasting your time.

Once you have been brainwashed there is no coming back. Doesn't matter if you are logical or not. All you have to do is look at our current setup in the USA.

The USA has labeled '___' in the same potentially harmful category as coc aine. At the same time I am allowed 60 mg. of amphetamine daily, but I am able to get this legally from the "pharmacy".

Originally posted by ImNotBlinded

Originally posted by Billmeister

Originally posted by ImNotBlinded
Imagine a world where all drugs are legal and everybody would be on crack???!!! WTF would our world be lol...Not a good idea.

Sorry, but that is faulty logic... are you just waiting for the day for drugs to be decriminalized to hurry over and fire up a crack pipe? What makes you think everybody else would?

In fact, if you checked some earlier posts (like this one: www.abovetopsecret.com... ) with actual experimental data, all facts point to the opposite phenomenon occurring.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I interpret your argument as:
a) you feel like you need the government to spend your money protecting you from yourself.
or b) you feel that you are somehow better than the vast majority who need some sort of protection from themselves.

edit on 17-12-2010 by Billmeister because: fixed link... sorry

I dont know where you get that from child but you need to fall back. I am AGAINST decriminalization for hard drugs, seems like you had too many because you can absolutely not comprehend rofl I said imagine a world where all drugs would be legal, everybody on crack, wtf (where the hell) would our world be. Now you tell me where I support being on drugs in that statement. LOL, you dont even know what you're talking about. I feel like we need to invest more money in your education so you know how to interpret arguments the right way - no offense

With all due respect, I understood your point exactly as you have restated it... maybe I should rephrase my response.
Yes, you are against the decriminalization of hard drugs because you somehow believe that everybody will use them if their use is made to not be punishable by law.
So my response tried to show you (within the links provided) that drug use was shown to diminish where decriminalization was experimented. (and yes even hard drugs)
I apologize if I wasn't clear enough for you.
Thanks for the response, and just for the record, I have never abused hard drugs, and I have a Masters Degree, not that that is relevant to the discussion at hand.
Sincerely,
the Billmeister

Originally posted by ImNotBlinded

Originally posted by Billmeister

Originally posted by ImNotBlinded
Imagine a world where all drugs are legal and everybody would be on crack???!!! WTF would our world be lol...Not a good idea.

Sorry, but that is faulty logic... are you just waiting for the day for drugs to be decriminalized to hurry over and fire up a crack pipe? What makes you think everybody else would?

In fact, if you checked some earlier posts (like this one: www.abovetopsecret.com... ) with actual experimental data, all facts point to the opposite phenomenon occurring.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I interpret your argument as:
a) you feel like you need the government to spend your money protecting you from yourself.
or b) you feel that you are somehow better than the vast majority who need some sort of protection from themselves.

edit on 17-12-2010 by Billmeister because: fixed link... sorry

I dont know where you get that from child but you need to fall back. I am AGAINST decriminalization for hard drugs, seems like you had too many because you can absolutely not comprehend rofl I said imagine a world where all drugs would be legal, everybody on crack, wtf (where the hell) would our world be. Now you tell me where I support being on drugs in that statement. LOL, you dont even know what you're talking about. I feel like we need to invest more money in your education so you know how to interpret arguments the right way - no offense

No, he interpreted the argument correctly. You implied it and he called you out, deal with it.

Originally posted by ImNotBlinded

Originally posted by Billmeister

Originally posted by ImNotBlinded
Imagine a world where all drugs are legal and everybody would be on crack???!!! WTF would our world be lol...Not a good idea.

Sorry, but that is faulty logic... are you just waiting for the day for drugs to be decriminalized to hurry over and fire up a crack pipe? What makes you think everybody else would?

In fact, if you checked some earlier posts (like this one: www.abovetopsecret.com... ) with actual experimental data, all facts point to the opposite phenomenon occurring.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I interpret your argument as:
a) you feel like you need the government to spend your money protecting you from yourself.
or b) you feel that you are somehow better than the vast majority who need some sort of protection from themselves.

edit on 17-12-2010 by Billmeister because: fixed link... sorry

I dont know where you get that from child but you need to fall back. I am AGAINST decriminalization for hard drugs, seems like you had too many because you can absolutely not comprehend rofl I said imagine a world where all drugs would be legal, everybody on crack, wtf (where the hell) would our world be. Now you tell me where I support being on drugs in that statement. LOL, you dont even know what you're talking about. I feel like we need to invest more money in your education so you know how to interpret arguments the right way - no offense

Haha! I actually heard the sound of his response sailing over your head!

reply to post by Billmeister


Well thats good. I have never abused hard drugs either and are not on my way trying it and just successfully received my Bachelor's since you are trying to make somebody feel worthless lol. It didn't work. Sure would everybody start to use them then because it would be legal. The only reason why people look at drugs "funny" is because they are illegal, once the legal issue is taken away the whole attitude towards drugs will change as well. Agree.

I think it's going to be impossible for the US to legalize MJ simply because the government wouldn't be able to control it. Its a weed, it grows anywhere. Anyone can grow it. If it was legal there would be no way for tptb to make money from it, sorta like vitamins and natural cures, you see how they fight tooth and nail to make those unavailable.

If California couldn't get it passed this last election, then no one can.....

How many industries would be affected: Logging, Cotton, pharmaceutical....the list goes on. Hemp isn't even legal in the US. Imagine the farms that would start up again. Yeah just doesn't fall into the agenda right now.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for the legalization of "drugs" as I agree with other posters; the societal effects I think would be positive. But the current political atmosphere wouldn't allow it here right now, hopefully your country is ready.

Anywho, great thread everyone, this is a much needed debate, but alas I need to take a cigarette and coffee break

reply to post by Extralien


Portugal did the opposite in 2001 and they've been alright.

"All drugs" implies all drugs: so, caffeine and alcohol, as well as pharmaceuticals, which can naturally be abused as well.

What about prohibition? That worked out real well.

Stop treating addicts like criminals. It solves nothing, neither curing the addiction, nor lessening the burden on the tax payer by putting them in prison for 2, 5 or whatever amount of years as opposed to proven forms of counseling.

Originally posted by ImNotBlinded
reply to post by Billmeister

 

Well thats good. I have never abused hard drugs either and are not on my way trying it and just successfully received my Bachelor's since you are trying to make somebody feel worthless lol. It didn't work. Sure would everybody start to use them then because it would be legal. The only reason why people look at drugs "funny" is because they are illegal, once the legal issue is taken away the whole attitude towards drugs will change as well. Agree.

Actually, I was not trying to make you feel worthless in the least, only your original response implied that I suffered from the reality that there was a lack of funding in education to explain your perception that I had misunderstood your viewpoint.

My original question was:

Would you start to smoke crack if it was decriminalized tomorrow?

Now, I am assuming, as I did previously, that your answer would be NO, so I followed up with:

Why do you assume anybody else would? (here is where I recommended you follow the links to the analyses of decriminalization experiments which concluded that it actually resulted in a reduction of drug use)

I totally agree with your statement that there is a lack of funding in education, and have argued previously that the resources now being allocated toward the "War on Drugs" could be put to much better use if put toward learning.

Once again, thank you for the response,
Sincerely,
the Billmeister

Originally posted by ImNotBlinded
I dont think that all drugs should be decriminalized!! There are drugs out there man that can get people highly addicted or even kill them. There should be made a difference between harmless illegal drugs as for example weed and harmful drugs like crack, heroine, coc aine, '___' and what else is out there that should not really be legalized. Sure there are millions of drug dealers imprisoned with outrageous sentences. That is what needs to be changed; the law. Imagine a world where all drugs are legal and everybody would be on crack???!!! WTF would our world be lol...Not a good idea. I am for legalization of marijuana because really it doesn't have any serious side effects, plus it would benefit our slow economy as well. New jobs would be created, tourists would probably come to the US just like they visit Amsterdam for that one particular reason.. Crime rates would go down and the police would have time to focus on more serious crimes again and all the people that are in jail now could be freed and so much money would be safed... The US government should really take this thing in consideration.... All the other drugs wear you out and make you sick and might even kill you! My personal opinion!

You just put '___' in the same category as heroin. Oops. I've never tried either but I know '___' is not dangerous and can actually be used to treat addiction to hard, addictive drugs. You should research before you enter a conversation about important subjects. This is where the problem lies, people need educating about all drugs if they are to be legalised.