Decriminalise all drugs, says ex-minister Bob Ainsworth

Lol, another retired politician that comes out after he can really do anything eheheh, great job. Its not an easy topic, Id be glad to see drug profits out of the gangs, get it taxed like hell like they do with alcool, and limit its use, only in bars or at home type stuff, people go out of the way to get high or drunk lol, government would make a killing, gangs would have less money for guns. It would open a door that wheve never benn through, so it might be a horrible idea, but heck id raher try that than get more people shot by gangs

I personally think that all drugs should be decriminalized and provided just like cigarettes or alcohol, but with the obvious warnings, ie make it clear on the packaging that so and so product can lead to life-changing addiction or kill you. What decriminalization and open supply would do is take a large majority of the profits away from gangs and cartels, as well as provide current users a legitimate, legal way to get their drugs. It would DRASTICALLY reduce crime. Also, I think that instead of arresting drug users, we should be using the money otherwise spent on their incarceration to offer them treatment and medical care.
All around, a phenomenal amount of money would be made/saved from decriminalization and it would be easier to help current drug users, rather than just locking them away and forgetting about them until they're released and rely on crime to continue their addiction.

they should legalize marijuana and focus exclusively on coc aine and heroin. once you take away marijuana as a source of wealth for cartels you weaken them.

most reports indicate that marijuana is the no. 1 moneymaker for international drug cartels.

the only problem is when the gov. gets involved they just replace the cartels as suppliers and vendors and charge the same price as it would be if it where illegal. all this would just create a legal black market, where the cartels will just undercut the market.

this strategy would only work if marijuana were priced at point of diminishing rewards where the penalty would outway the rewards.

They need to legalise weed. It's a waste of taxpayer money to go after these non-violent people. They make some very valid points here.

Originally posted by Pakd-on-mystery
Read my earlier posts, I do not lack recreational drug experience. I have been where you are now, trust me, if you stopped smoking for a while, you would agree to my opinion about pot.
Marijuana makes you think that you have insight into everything, yet once you stop smoking, you realize that you were blinded by the substance.
I smoked marijuana on a daily basis for years, and when I stopped it was like I woke up out of a dream, because I started realizing many details that were not visible to me on weed.
Ok, my bad with "province", but I'm still waiting for those examples of positive drug influence

I am not trying to "sh*t in your cereal", but I would really recommend you trying to live a while without, and you will see what I mean.

Let me explain something to you.

I probably have a lot more experience with recreational drugs than you can even comprehend. I have not done any recreational drugs for awhile now because I don't feel like it. I am not on drugs like you suspect.

And you know what? I've experience some incredibly beautiful things on drugs. It's definitely expanded my mind and given me great insight into the world, including friends, family, love, hate, politics, weapons, or EVERYTHING. If I had never smoke marijuana, I would have grown up into a military stiff with little emotion or understanding of others; and in fact, I was rejected from the military because of my drug experience because they don't want free-thinking people like me.

And I know what the bad aspects of drugs are. I choose not to describe them on ATS because I know some ATS staff are itching to just delete my posts if I say them.

But since I can clearly see a pair of balls hanging between my legs, I will do so anyways.

You know what is bad about marijuana? When you need to do something with your life and you sit around and smoke pot all day, which is instant procrastination. There is a difference between smoking weed for enjoyment or bad habits. It's hard to get out of that loop, but a hell of a lot easier than quitting drinking or cigarettes (Which are both legal because they create profit).

Coke? Coke is good for partying because it intensifies your emotions. Bad experiences on coke? When you do it as a crutch, expecially since most coke in the West is far from pure and is extremely unhealthy to ingest/inhale. Trust me, I've seen it turn some of my most intelligent friends into sniveling little drones, destroying their brains and intelligence, and that's about the point when I said I'll never touch it again.

But you want to talk about something that should be furthur explored about drugs? Look at mushrooms. Have you ever been in another dimension of existence, out of your body and into your soul? Because I have and no bloody modern science or organized religion is going to tell me some "explaination" for what I've personally experienced on mind-altering NATURAL psilocybin mushrooms.

Look at '___' (which I have never done). It is a drug that your body natural creates in minimal doses. HOWEVER, its effects have been studied before by governments and universities. It turns out that external doses have different effects, depending on how it is used by the patient; I found the injection method to be most interesting:

"Injection
Injected '___' produces an experience that is similar to inhalation in duration, intensity, and characteristics.

In a study conducted from 1990 through 1995, University of New Mexico psychiatrist Rick Strassman found that some volunteers injected with high doses of '___' had experiences with a perceived alien entity. Usually, the reported entities were experienced as the inhabitants of a perceived independent reality the subjects reported visiting while under the influence of '___'.[11] In a September, 2009, interview with Examiner.com, Strassman described the effects on participants in the study: "Subjectively, the most interesting results were that high doses of '___' seemed to allow the consciousness of our volunteers to enter into non-corporeal, free-standing, independent realms of existence inhabited by beings of light who oftentimes were expecting the volunteers, and with whom the volunteers interacted. While “typical” near-death and mystical states occurred, they were relatively rare."

en.wikipedia.org...

This is a clear-cut example of inner-space exploration. Do you not think that we should be experiencing and studying this instead of banning it?!

Just because you might of had a bad trip on recreational drugs doesn't mean you speak for everyone else. I've met thousands of people in my province and marijuana (along with other recreational drugs) are all parts of their life experiences. Getting high is as or more common than getting drunk here. It is our culture. You're trying to tell me that my culture is wrong?

I am a staunch advocate of legalizing marijuana however ..other drugs and it gets blurry. Indigenous people have used hallucinogenic drugs for centuries , and around the world drugs are used in spirituality for a purpose. There is a rehab center in Peru that uses Ayahuasca as part of the drug treatment for drug addicted patients , and has had good results. Many studies have revealed the positive side of using hallucinogenics. The point isn't that people are using a particular drug, it's the context in how they are using it. In society, generally drug use is unacceptable , people turn to it as a form as escape , whereas in a cultural or spiritual context it can be used as a tool. There is nothing new about people wanting to engage in different stages of consciousness, only the fact that now we have deemed it "socially" unacceptable.
Some drugs are so physically addictive that it is immoral to treat this like a criminal problem and not a social problem. Sending drug addicted people to jail does nothing for them , but take all their opportunities for a future away.
In saying that it is important to note, that there is no way in hell drugs are getting into this country on such a mass scale without the helping hand of some corrupt government official.( show me a field of opium poppies) What really pisses me off is that the addicts lives are being ruined by the people who supply them and then turn around to prosecute them.

ive gotta say a big heart felt thanks to the ats members that are contributing to this thread.
at last an adult and informed chat about a subject that affects us all.


ats have let us run with it an we got the front page!!!

well done all.

now we just need our draconian world governments to join in our discussion and have a much needed but often avoided debate of this subject matter.
the sooner they stop worrying about there public image and said what most of them seem to actualy think i believe whats called the "brittish system" could e implemented across the golbe.

the brittish system was the way the uk used to work the drug situation.
e.g. until the 1930s you could buy coc aine over the counter at harrods. until 1960s doctors could prescribe heroin to people. just a couple of examples of how the uk used to work.

I am all for legalisation (and taxing) of soft drugs with low physical addictive potential and low effective/damaging dose ratio, like marijuana, '___', mushrooms.. But to decriminalise ALL drugs, even heroine, meth etc., that is just crazy.

I heard Ainsworth on 'Parliament Today' on Radio 4 last night. The charge was put to him that now he says something....and not when he was in office. He stated that he would have been hounded from his job for making such a statement....which is true. Think Daily Mail. He claims that while in his position he managed to effect some small improvements - but they were too small to make any real difference.

It seems also he's been receiving hate mail from an anonymous labour member who he directly challenged to identify themselves, saying if he didn't he would go on every chat show, documentary about the subject that he could.

He does NOT advocate drug use - he advocates openness and therefore more control. In Britain you can get any drug you want, anytime, anywhere. The problem is rife - criminalisation of otherwise law abiding people...and...mixing with people you may not ordinarily want to mix with. In a shop is a good option. In Switzerland they don't have coffee shops like Amsterdam - just a shop - it’s so bloody civilised.

Originally posted by christina-66
I just posted this as breakin news not realising this thread was already here.

The figures were finally admitted to about Scotland's methadone users - Half a million of them!!! Out of a population of 5 million!!! It cannot go on. They're actually labelled as 'sick' and so receive incapacity benefit. Methadone is far harder to detox from than heroin but it helps stall the crime wave that goes with feeding a habit. A doctor described us as a nation of fat, happy junkies. (that's those on methadone).

Drug use proliferated with unemployment. One of the reasons why I thought they kept them illegal was to keep liquid cash running through the economy. Of course they should legalise them - the stupid 'war on drugs' is lost. In any event many of the drugs they label as illegal are safer than alcohol. Alcohol is one of the hardest addictions to break.

Half a million - unbelievable.

Get out of here! You think 1 in 10 people in Scotland use methadone? There are about 20,000 methadone users in Scotland, at the last count. The number you have mentioned probably relates to the number of prescriptions issued.

Originally posted by christina-66
reply to post by crimvelvet

 

I don't know about being 'in it to make money' although your post goes some way to explaining that. I am truly shocked at the figures released yeterday that half a million Scots out of a total population (incl. children and pensioners) of just 5 million is a real shocker. That's just heroin - coc aine is the actual drug of choice these days. (I can't handle coke heads - they think everyone else is stupid - and they are everywhere).

Even though on the streets we can see there are serious drug issues in this country this is the first time they've told us how serious it actually is.

You won't find more compliant or apathetic people than the Scots - all they care about is getting 'out their face'. (not everyone obviously) Despite the problem being so huge there are few rehab units to help people detox. Obviously they haven't wanted the problem sorted out, very probably, because of the apathy it induces in the populace.

I've not gone through this whole thread, I'm replying to these posts as I see them, but let me just pull you up on another issue Christina. Before you go bandying about crass and stupid generalisations perhaps you'd do well to take a good look at yourself and your own lack of ability in interpreting information - see my previous post. I don't know where you're from but wouldn't it be terrible if we assumed that everyone from where you're from was as equally incapable of interpreting information and coming to reasoned, rational conclusions based on it. It wouldn't be fair to do that, would it?

reply to post by Mike N



Did you see the later post - the stat was wrong and I apologised although I did NOT make it up. It was from the paper the previous day. 500 thousand meth prescriptions is what its' headline should have read...it actually read - 'Half A Million Scots On Methadone' Although from the town near me 0.5m junkies across the whole of Scotland is quite believable.

Google Page showing headline

Now they've removed the actual article which is I can only provide the search page that still shows the headline. I have also complained to the paper.


erm I'm from Scotland - and didn't you see my caveat. I speak from experience.

reply to post by christina-66



Ah ok, apologies, that is a misleading headline.

reply to post by Mike N



NP Mike - you can understand my shock and horror I hope.

Originally posted by christina-66
reply to post by Mike N

 

Did you see the later post - the stat was wrong and I apologised although I did NOT make it up. It was from the paper the previous day. 500 thousand meth prescriptions is what its' headline should have read...it actually read - 'Half A Million Scots On Methadone' Although from the town near me 0.5m junkies across the whole of Scotland is quite believable.
Google Page showing headline
Now they've removed the actual article which is I can only provide the search page that still shows the headline. I have also complained to the paper.
erm I'm from Scotland - and didn't you see my caveat. I speak from experience.

Check the cache files when that happens.
Your article is still here in cache.

Christina, this is why you should always read an article carefully and think about the logic in it and the possible agenda behind it before believing it.

As soon as I read your first post in this thread I guessed what wwas going on, because the half million figure was patently ridiculous. The quick disappearance of the article should have made you check again.

The stupid reporter equated scraps of paper, prescriptions, with people.
When I knew someone on methadone she had to get a new prescription each month. So it's likely 12 prescritions are indicative of one person on methadone for a year. - And yes, methadone is a long-term treatment.

However even that ratio cannot be assumed, as there is also a thriving black market in selling both the methadone prescriptions and the methadone, often watered done, obtained by prescription.

For example, New Methadone Script

Originally posted by Freeborn
reply to post by christina-66

 

It was reported in March 2010 that 22,000 people in Scotland are currently prescribed Methadone, where on earth did you get the figure of 500,000 because I assure you that is complete and utter nonsense!

Some stupid reporter, who'd need a brain transplant to reach half-wit status, equated prescriptions with people.

And naturally, it was reported here by a poster who didn't bother analysing the info.

reply to post by Kailassa


This was NOT an article on the net...but in a national daily newspaper. It sat about my house all day and could NOT suddenly disappear. The headline was 4cm tall....not requiring careful reading and throughout the article it repeated the claim. I have complained to the paper

Originally posted by Anthony1138
.....Where has our morals gone?......

But who are you or anyone else to impose your morals upon me or anyone else?

As long as a person is acting on their own free accord, are not posing a threat or danger to anyone else or society and are using their own legally obtained funds exactly where is the problem other than YOUR moral code and values?

reply to post by Kailassa



Good grief - Kailassa - this was sorted yesterday. Despite this correction the drug problems here are chronic with varying degrees of useage dependent on where in the country you live. Now I live close to one of the most deprived towns in the country with the greatest numbers of addicts. There are no jobs in the town...and haven't been in any numbers since the 1970's. We have intergenerational addiction problems that is now hitting the third and even fourth generation. Complacency nor sumgness are options.

reply to post by Kailassa


This was clarified pretty early in the thread.

christina-66 did nothing wrong and has no need to apologise.

In fact, I think she's done great by highlighting a blatant case of sensationalist journalism and is going directly to souce.

She is obviously concerned about the levels of addiction in her hometown and recognises that the current policy isn't working and never will.