Entheogens and Spirituality: safe or not??

I will say this...if you are prone to mental instability or have a family history of mental illness, it may not be wise to jump into it, especially in conjunction with spirituality/religion. You could end up thinking you're a prophet, a messiah or have some other variety of a psychotic break. It sounds crazy, but in the midst of overwhelming experience, you can believe just about anything.

Originally posted by SmokeandShadow
I will say this...if you are prone to mental instability or have a family history of mental illness, it may not be wise to jump into it, especially in conjunction with spirituality/religion. You could end up thinking you're a prophet, a messiah or have some other variety of a psychotic break. It sounds crazy, but in the midst of overwhelming experience, you can believe just about anything.

What does mental instability or mental illness have to do with common sense, positivity, the urge to spread waves of positive thoughts into a world of fear, and materialism? You made a very EPIC observation here regarding prophets. If Entheogens are so widely available, not to mention mans power trip for oppressing nature, how would one judge a prophet in a negative manner, specifically if he finds personal happiness and comfort in making folks realize that they have been going about life in the complete opposite direction due to avoiding these Entheogens in the first place?

The only reason folks who do come back from a great experience are looked as crazies is due to the FACT that the majority of folks around them are not skilled enough to understand the knowledge that is being attempted to be given to them in the first place. I'll set myself up as an example... with the way things are going about these days, I've already come to an understanding that transparency, love, and the power of releasing positive thoughts will be the only cure for myself and those around me.

After having my own personal experiences with Entheogens and having found God after being an Athiest for 15 years i would have to say i will never look at the world in the same way again. I was sad for a while knowing how blind humanity was to the true purpose of us being here on Earth. So many long time questions were answered and self-realization came with an ease. I literally felt so stupid that I had not found Entheogens at an earlier age. Quite frankly i felt robbed of my true potential here on Earth. Yes, i did come back feeling like a prophet, however only because those around me had no clue about how simple life really is. See, life is too simple, but humans insist on complicating it for themselves and everyone around them. When i had my experience, i wanted to talk about great things like, Alternative Energy, Metaphysics, Philosophy, Science, Peace, Love, and how God was absolutely everything around us and was not to be limited to a bearded man in the skies! Once you step into what i call... "The Editing Room of Life", then you will realize how everyone runs on autopilot, everyone starts to look like dumbed and numbed down robots who only care for and praise a system of education that teaches them nothing but out dated information that is meant to protect the secret forces that oppress this sort of information in the first place.

Not everyone experiences the Magic in the same way. Others have really bad Karma that prevent them from the golden intellect and that might be the reason some folks over react or fail to relax during their uses. Being from Miami Florida myself... kids and adults down here take Entheogens at Clubs, Parties and Concerts. Talk about a time and place for everything? No wonder folks cannot have a gratifying spiritual experience, because they are too busy focusing on the external world rather than the internal world while simultaneously trying to cope with the experience. It's confusing and a waste of time, and might be a hazard.

The truth of the matter is, we are all prophets and we are all scum. Everything is energy. Zeros and ones are everything and negative and positive account for absolutely everything. There is nothing wrong with believing in yourself, especially when you know deep down in your heart, your experiences here on Earth have led you to believe in the way you do. Sure, there are some nuts, some crazies here and there. We cannot and should not try to do anything about the negativity in others, however, we can influence the world through truth, love and respect. It all starts with ourselves first. Once the positive majority has over ruled the negative minority, perhaps then and only then will that mirror inside of their mind become obvious and things will work in the way they were initially made to work.

I understand why some folks become so frustrated with the rest of the world. It is those people that have strong, emotional love and compassion towards their fellow brothers and sisters! They are the ones that fall out of the system because they know deep inside... that system is completely artificial, consist of programmed illusions and quite frankly find it low and disgusting to even be a part of the widely accepted lie just to get by and earn a check.

I DO NOT ADVOCATE THE USE OF DRUGS.

Below is a review of a book called
Entheogens and the Future of Religion by Robert Forte:


Entheogens and the Future of Religion was published by The Council of Spiritual Practices, an organization that describes itself as "a collaboration among spiritual guides, experts in the behavioral and biomedical sciences, and scholars of religion, dedicated to making the direct experience of the sacred more available to more people" (see www.csp.org). It is an excellent book for those interested in the social, political, ethical, spiritual and historical aspects of the religious use of entheogens. Edited by Robert Forte, this collection includes essays, interviews and transcripts of speaking engagements from various authors with differing areas of expertise approaches the topic of the religious use of entheogens.

"Testimony of the Council of Spiritual Practices" is a version of a talk given by Robert Jesse, founder of CSP, at the Committee of Drugs and the Law of the Association of the Bar in New York City. Jesse speaks in defense of the religious liberty to use entheogens as part of a sincere spiritual practice. He explores the legal issues and ramifications involved in legally treating entheogens and their religious use very differently than the recreational use (and abuse) of hard drugs. Jesse offers reasonable alternatives to total prohibition, and discusses what might entail legal accommodation of safe, sincere employment of entheogens as part of a religious practice.

"Explorations Into God" is a talk by the Benedictine monk and author Brother David Steindl-Rast, who received permission from the Vatican in 1967 to start a formal Christian-Buddhist dialogue with Zen teachers. Speaking at the Esalen Institute in 1984, Steindl-Rast barely mentions entheogens directly. But by refraining from making any distinction between particular spiritual practices, he validates the sincere use of entheogens in a spiritual life. For Steindl-Rast, a continuously vital religious spirit is important, rather than fixed religious dogmas. He points out that, used with honesty and the right intention, entheogens can be used to enrich a religious life, but this is ultimately beside his point. Steindl-Rast's essay is perhaps the most joyous and sincere chapter in this book.

Dale Pendell is a software engineer, long-time student of ethnobotany and an important poet and author in entheogenic culture. In "Das Mutterkorn: The Making of DeLysid", Pendell waxes poetic about a variety of key moments in psychoactive history: Hofmann's discovery of '___', the ancient Greek Eleusinian mysteries, and R. Gordon Wasson's rediscovery of the use of sacred mushrooms in the mountains of Mexico. In addition, Pendell includes what seems to be fragments of a technical process of manufacturing lysergic acid. Pendell swiftly jumps from one topic to another and back again, cross-weaving a thread to make a tapestry, deftly using poetic license to combine chemistry, history, and religion.

In "The Message of the Eleusinian Mysteries for Today's World," Dr. Albert Hofmann, the chemist who invented '___', explores the most famous mystery tradition of the ancient world. For nearly a thousand years, seekers accepted at the temple in Eleusis were led through a sort of dramatic guided tour through the death and rebirth myth of Persephone. History tells us that, although the details of these rites were kept secret, whatever took place profoundly changed those who went through it. Many of the most influential figures of the classical Mediterranean world found themselves transformed by their experiences, which may have turn led to ideas that went on to change Western civilization. History also tells us that a sacred drink called kykeon was served during the rites. This brew raises the central question in this chapter. "Could the visions of Eleusis have been produced solely by unknown rites," Hofmann asks, "or was the kykeon a psychopharmakon, a plant extract capable of inducing an ecstatic state?"

Broadening his topic, Hofmann voices the central issue of Entheogens and the Future of Religion when he asks "whether it is ethically and religiously defensible to use consciousness-altering drugs under specific circumstances to gain new insights into the spiritual world." Hofmann goes on to argue that the use of kykeon in the context of the Eleusinian rites, as well as the ritual use of the '___'-like ololiuqui by certain indigenous peoples of Mexico, can serve as models for the beneficial use of entheogens in a religious context today. "Eleusis can be a model for today," Hofmann writes. "Eleusis-like centers could unite and strengthen the many spiritual currents of our time, all of which have the same goal: the goal of creating, by transforming consciousness in individual people, the conditions for a better world, a world without war and without environmental damage, a world of happy people."

Review of the Book

Many entheogens unlock or even open a door in your mind, oftentimes leading one to drastically alter their outlook on life. Things like psilocybin mushrooms, '___', '___'/ayahuasca, mescale/Peyote, and Salvia divinorum all are extraordinarily safe in terms of the physical effects (it's nearly impossible to overdose on any of these substances, they are all extremely non-toxic, and have no known negative physical effects besides nausea from taking a drug). There's effectively zero bodily danger in the psychedelics I just listed. The mental effects are quite variable, however. The only real danger might come from a really intense trip where you don't have a trip sitter to help out and keep things calm and safe. You can do stupid stuff while tripping, and its good to have a gentle friend who is sober to hang out with.

When people say they took acid and never stopped tripping, or say their latent schizophrenia was brought out by acid, often times they are experiencing a usually temporary condition known as Hyper Persisting Perceptive Disorder (HPPD), which many people have demonized and called "flashbacks". Flashbacks are extremely rare. I don't know a single tripper who has ever had what most people think of as flashbacks. HPPD is just a little bit of residual visual distortion, maybe breathing walls and vibrant colors, during the time after a trip. It can last a couple months if you have been tripping excessively, but usually just a day or so if at all. It's not a constant effect for me, at least.

Ok, so now to those people who really did go crazy after taking psychedelics: This usually happens with '___' (which is often not actually the very safe compound d-Lysergic acid diethylamide, but actually some relatively unknown but far more dangerous "research chemical", usually DOB, DOI, DOC, or one of the 2C series - these research chemicals are less researched and usually phenylethylamines which you should just know means have more physical dangers as they are physical stimulants and not just psychedelics). I have had "bad trips" after taking research chemicals, which often can last far longer than '___' (we're talking 24 to 36 hours, as opposed to 8 to 12 with true blue '___').

Finally, there are people like my uncle who drop acid for a couple years straight. I know people who have had such easy access to '___' that they could take 10 to 100 hits every day for years on end, and not have any problems. But my uncle, for example, tripped nonstop and ended up a paranoid schizophrenic. As far as I have been able to research, the % of the population which suffers from schizophrenia is not larger for psychedelic drug users. '___' is known to bring out or exacerbate symptoms of schizophrenia in patients who are already susceptible or experiencing symptoms.

'___' is a very powerful drug. I honestly believe that it opens a door to some sort of universal holographic energy web, it allows you (if you so desire) to experience reality without the physical illusion. Some people are ready and able to have this experience (usually involves meeting God, experiencing true unity/singularity, dissolution of the ego, omniscience (because you are everything), etc - classic mystical/spiritual experience), others' minds are not prepared to be so totally demolished, and as the drug wears off and the ego attempts to regain control of the body and mind, the tripper is mentally unable to rebuild its ego. Therapy is needed, DEEP therapy, to resolve this. Most people, however, have their door unlocked by '___' but lack the self-knowledge to control the floodgates of the infinite universe. And so they go crazy.

Let's talk about '___' for a moment, because it contrasts with '___' quite interestingly. It is referred to by some as "business man's acid" because the trip is so quick, about 15 minutes at the very most if smoked/vaporized. '___' doesn't cause ANYBODY any lasting negative effects - I should say, I suppose, that I personally have never once heard a single negative thing about '___' besides that it can be a little scary at first. It is quite possibly the most powerful psychedelic around. It is in the top three along with 5-MeO-'___' (from certain plants, toads, and via synthesis) and Salvinorin-A (from Salvia divinorum). It is a natural chemical present in many, many mammals as an endogenous neurotransmitter (including humans), and as well in many plant species of surprising variety.

'___' is the most therapeutic substance I have ever taken. Even a low dose not enough to give psychedelic effects is like the best antidepressant ever. It doesn't equalize you, it positivizes you! I am so ready and able to conquer the challenges in life after the smallest puff of '___'. And it's not some delusion - I am harmonized and able to use my compassion and logic to reason through any potentially troubling situation with ease. I won't bother to attempt to explain a '___' trip, because it really defies description. A low dose trip is similar to mushrooms, but moderate to high dose is unlike anything else. Seriously, there are no words in english or any other language (I would imagine) to describe the total love experience that is '___'. Our usual 5 or so senses are pretty much useless during the trip, and all perception is like direct perception of reality and existence - no limited senses mediating your perception of the world. It's straight god-to-mind universe transfer.

There are quite a few reports of '___' actually curing schizophrenia for up to a month per dose. One man I know, for example, normally must take antipsychotics, but after trying '___' he found his symptoms all disappeared. After more experimentation, he found that he only needed a sub-psychoactive dose to treat his symptoms! So '___' seems to me to be beneficial to sanity with pretty much zero chance of anything negative (unless you fall down while tripping and bumb your noggin).

If you are more interested, I recommend you read the book '___' - The Spirit Molecule by Rick Strassman. He did some pioneering research into '___' and documents its ability to reliably produce mystical experiences. There is a lot of speculation within the book, and many people take this speculation to be proven fact. Strassman is very good about maintaining scientific objectivity, however, and he always makes a big point to show why he thinks a certain thing. I bring this up because a large piece of unproven info about '___' went around because of Strassman's book - the idea that '___' is produced in the brain during near-death, out-of-body, dreaming, and actual death experiences. He does not prove this, he only suspects there may be involvement. This myth has perpetuated many scary, hurtful, and just plain wrong ideas about the drug. '___' might be linked to these types of supernatural experience, but there is no proof. You certainly will not die if you take it because your brain thinks it is dying. Just want to dispel some fears and unfounded rumors.

I could go on and on pretty much indefinitely about entheogens, their uses, their dangers, their beauty, their wisdom even. If you have any questions at all on any psychoactive herb, feel free to ask. Entheogens have been an integral part of my life and honestly, especially '___', have been more influential to my thinking (in a good way of course) than any other part of life. Besides maybe the Law of One.

Entheogen:
en - within
theo - god
gen - genesis, creation

Entheogen = to create god within

Originally posted by drkid

Originally posted by SmokeandShadow
I will say this...if you are prone to mental instability or have a family history of mental illness, it may not be wise to jump into it, especially in conjunction with spirituality/religion. You could end up thinking you're a prophet, a messiah or have some other variety of a psychotic break. It sounds crazy, but in the midst of overwhelming experience, you can believe just about anything.

What does mental instability or mental illness have to do with common sense, positivity, the urge to spread waves of positive thoughts into a world of fear, and materialism? You made a very EPIC observation here regarding prophets. If Entheogens are so widely available, not to mention mans power trip for oppressing nature, how would one judge a prophet in a negative manner, specifically if he finds personal happiness and comfort in making folks realize that they have been going about life in the complete opposite direction due to avoiding these Entheogens in the first place?

The only reason folks who do come back from a great experience are looked as crazies is due to the FACT that the majority of folks around them are not skilled enough to understand the knowledge that is being attempted to be given to them in the first place. I'll set myself up as an example... with the way things are going about these days, I've already come to an understanding that transparency, love, and the power of releasing positive thoughts will be the only cure for myself and those around me.

After having my own personal experiences with Entheogens and having found God after being an Athiest for 15 years i would have to say i will never look at the world in the same way again. I was sad for a while knowing how blind humanity was to the true purpose of us being here on Earth. So many long time questions were answered and self-realization came with an ease. I literally felt so stupid that I had not found Entheogens at an earlier age. Quite frankly i felt robbed of my true potential here on Earth. Yes, i did come back feeling like a prophet, however only because those around me had no clue about how simple life really is. See, life is too simple, but humans insist on complicating it for themselves and everyone around them. When i had my experience, i wanted to talk about great things like, Alternative Energy, Metaphysics, Philosophy, Science, Peace, Love, and how God was absolutely everything around us and was not to be limited to a bearded man in the skies! Once you step into what i call... "The Editing Room of Life", then you will realize how everyone runs on autopilot, everyone starts to look like dumbed and numbed down robots who only care for and praise a system of education that teaches them nothing but out dated information that is meant to protect the secret forces that oppress this sort of information in the first place.

From what I can tell, we up up against a MOUTAINOUS obstacle, but inevitably we can't NOT break through, provided we continue, at all levels and in all spheres (those available to us), to keep on keeping on.

"With faith the size of a tiny mustard seed, you will be able to say to the mountain move, and it will move."

I think the main problem is with people who THINK they know better, but who do not have the first clue, and I think it scares them, the notion that their cherised worldview may be passing away, and discarded as no longer workable.

People have nothing but fear and loathing towards a prophet in their midst.

reply to post by tetsuo


A+ reply here! Thank you so much for this highly informative piece of writing. I love how you were able to pull personal experiences left and right. I am in the same boat with you when it comes to the importance of entheogens. I am still in total awww over this post. Nicely written!

reply to post by drkid


Don't get me wrong friend, I think EVERYONE has the right to do grow, concoct and consume whatever they please, in fact, I am probably one of the most vocal supporters of ending prohibition on ATS. I will check out that book as well.

It's just that, some people will take drugs without context as you described and do so without really knowing there body, limits and without caution or respect. They then end up wearing a t-shirt on their head, sun glasses all hours of the day and end up baker acted into a psych unit (true story). Some peoples brain chemicals are just not suited for some other chemicals. It has NOTHING to do with legality, morality or personal experiences with ethneogens .

Thanks for the heads up on the book.

reply to post by tetsuo


This is the best post on the subject I've ever read.

Well written.

reply to post by Big Trouble in Little Chi

Methinks that the Church tries to ban these drugs, along with non-entheogenic drugs, because they want a monopoly on spirituality. If you can access God directly, why do you need the Church? If you don't depend on the Church for direction, how can they control you?

reply to post by lektrofellon


reply to post by GeechQuestInfo


I hold in my hand McKenna's book Food of the Gods, in which he explains his "Stoned Ape" hypothesis. As bsbray11 says, all foods are 'drugs' with the potential to alter our consciousness; we are what we eat. In McKenna's theory, human consciousness evolved when proto-hominids began incorporating magic mushrooms from the savanna into their diet. Here's a video in which he describes it himself.

The reason drugs can be dangerous for us, as dontreally says, is that the traditions of safe shamanic use have been destroyed. One of the key historical goals of the Church was the obliteration of the ancient Mystery religions, all of which revolved around personal enlightenment assisted by magic foods and potions. The Native American Church has preserved the sacrament of the Peyote flower and the Brazilian church, Uniao do Vegetal, was formed to protect the sacrament of the Ayahuasca brew.

SaturnFX; the visions brought on by entheogens may be illusions. How does that make them different from the waking world?

Personally, I follow a sort of Buddhist view of the world in which all things are an extension of the Eternal, Unchanging Reality. For all intents and purposes, this reality is me, and I am it. Keep in mind that the ancient Vedas were inspired by the use of the Soma brew and it becomes clear that the most rational religions on the planet are informed by the mystery of magic foods...


DON'T ABUSE DRUGS

DRUGS ARE BAD AND IF YOU DO DRUGS YOU ARE BAD

Your brain is an electro-chemical drug factory, it produces chemicals that make you feel what you feel.

When you are experiencing a particular emotional state it is because of the chemicals produced by your brain.
Yes you are all drug addicts, addicted to your emotional states.

Your entire experience is because of molecules.

Many phychadelics, the better ones are related to the tryptophan family of molecules. tryptophan is the precursor to many of these substances including seratonin. In fact psilocin, '___', '___' are extremely close to seratonin. They are nuerotransmitters of the tryptophan group.

The fact is that if you are having a spritual experience it is because of molecules, whether they are naturally produced or ingested from the gifts and keys that have been left for us.

ALL RELIGIONS HAVE THIER ORIGINS IN ENTHEOGENS. Yes even Judaism, christianity and islam.

Science is catching up, the experiences of the prophets have been replicated in the lab, however if it was written down a couple of thousand years ago, does it naturaly follow to have deeper significance and truth even when the language has been twisted and distorted?

reply to post by drkid


When it comes to other people undertaking spiritual work of a radical nature I would suggest that we be very cautious. That is all the original writer was suggesting. You may take all the drugs you like and maintain your sanity. Someone else or your twin (in a thought experiment) has a small dose of a drugs and cracks up. That is the mystery of human beings.

Lets be careful out there.

reply to post by tiger5


Yes that is very true, they are powerful tools. Caution and respect of their power is essential. I think a certain level of mental maturity and mental health is essential. They aren't for everyone that's for sure.

On another point regarding the amino acid tryptophan that facinates me is that it exists in all organisms, and tryptophan is only two enzymes away from '___'. All organisms also have these two enzymes. So theoretically all organism are capable of producing '___'. This alone tells me that it has a unique quality to life itself or more likely, conciousness itself.

They speculate that it is responsible for dreaming, well if you don't dream you die. We are all tied to it I'm afraid, the detractors sometimes forget this or have not looked at it from this perspective.

I have been meditating on this since I last posted, and came to some conclusions. Like I said previously, I have had some amazing experiences on entheogens.

These are some questions I have had recently:
1) How do I keep the drugs from becoming the "boss" of my enlightenment?
- I can't, the desire to become enlightened will occupy the mind and stop enlightenment from occurring
- I will result to having to use drugs to gain enlightenment, therefore forcefully shutting down the mind
- Attachment appears to be the opposite direction of enlightenment.

2) Do drugs open up new experiences?
- Drugs only distort that which is already present. Imagine a stream of awareness that is always trying to maintain perfect balance. Drugs alter that stream of awareness. The mind notices something wrong and tries to recreate balance.
- Drugs do not create. Drugs forcefully shut down the mind.

3) Will I experience enlightening things without entheogens?
- Not sure, but I know if I did experience something amazing I wouldn't want to be high when experiencing it.
- I want to remember it and live it, which so far has been impossible to do with all of my past drug induced enlightening experiences.

I may be wrong on all of this, but at some point you must pick a direction and stick with it. I am sticking with idea that I don't need more mind (drugs) to leave the mind. I am instead going to watch the mind through meditation and ask it to slowly stop when it feels ready.

reply to post by label

You seem to have a very clinical view on enlightenment. From my experience there is no chemical nor physical addiction to entheogens. Actually they are quite scary and to be honest I am very intimidated by them. For this reason I give them a lot of respect.

1) How do I keep the drugs from becoming the "boss" of my enlightenment?
- I can't, the desire to become enlightened will occupy the mind and stop enlightenment from occurring

I think that we all come to this point in our enlightenment drugs or not.
"the desire to become enlightened will occupy the mind and stop enlightenment from occurring"
This is the problem that I think everyone comes to whether they realize it or not and it has nothing to do with drugs. The desire for enlightenment will become a hindrance no matter what happens. It is only when we let go of our desires that we can find peace.

Attachment appears to be the opposite direction of enlightenment.

I think that this is very true but again it isn't subjective to just drugs. It has to do with the desire to achieve that stops our advancement and it is only when we let go of our physical attachments that we can truly be free. I believe that this is the direction of Gnosticism.

Drugs only distort that which is already present.

This is a clinical view of this subject. The words 'drugs' and 'distortion' are ambiguous in this statement which means, in this case, you are correct and incorrect at the same time. Our perception of reality is nothing more than a distortion of the same. I guess one could say that drugs distort our already distorted perception of reality. Who is to say that their perception of reality is the true one?

Drugs do not create. Drugs forcefully shut down the mind.

Again the word "drugs" is ambiguous. In the context of this thread "drugs" can create alternative realities in the mind by removing the blocks that allow us to focus. If imagination is something that can be created then some drugs most certainly do this.

Will I experience enlightening things without entheogens?

From my personal perspective I experience enlightening things all the time without the use of drugs. Perhaps it was the use of drugs some time ago that caused me to notice it, I am not sure. But now I notice it all the time, almost every day. Because of this I also notice that I meditate even when I am not aware that I am doing so.

I don't think you should inhibit yourself by making the claim that you either need drugs to achieve enlightenment or that you must do without them. Lose your desire and I think it will come to you in time.

Yes, it is entirely safe. I mean, the majority are. Of course, there are always gonna be some harmful drugs out there but hey!

I've done tons of hallucinogens: marijuana, magic mushrooms, lsd, 2c-e, 2c-t-7, 4-aco-dmt...This is what helped me to awake, to enlighten myself. The drugs I mentioned above are virtually harmless, and they did bring me some enlightenment. Drugs are a shortcut to a destination you can reach, in a larger amount of time, through meditation.

Psychedelics, however, aren't for everyone. I know a couple of people who would have cracked down on '___'. But hey, for those who can handle it, it's magical. It's something unexplainable. On mushrooms, as for an example, you get a feeling of knowing everything. But it's an illusion. What it really does is giving you the tools to unravel the mysteries. It gives you more awareness, more "space" in your head to think, everything because way clearer.

Psychedelics aren't used by ancient civilizations for nothing...but really, I won't tell if it's good or not. For some people it is a wonder tool for your mind, but for others, it can lead to a train wreck.

EDIT:

Drugs do not create. Drugs forcefully shut down the mind.

Depends on the drug. Entheogens/psychedelic drugs don't shut the mind at all. They expand it. And that's why some people are afraid of them. Reality is way more stranger than we think, and psychedelics let us see through the veil of illusion (illusion = our accepted conception of reality).

+

I agree with the above poster.

Here is the thing though... Some posters insist on calling Entheogens drugs but drugs in a negative sense. Drugs in the sense that they say... you might fall victim of only gaining knowledge or enlightenment by the usage of Entheogens, but isn't it clear with all the information we know now... that we have been lied to and have been programmed to fall under a certain way of thinking by design? Listen, if you take a step forward you will move. If you swim in water you will move. If you drink or consume food it will satisfy your stomach. I see absolutely no difference when comparing entheogens and their effect. THINK CAUSE and EFFECT.

If it is common that people feel enlightenment after the their experiences with Entheogens, don't you believe maybe they are here for a purpose? It is down right foolish to ignore something that has shown time and time again such positive results. The stigma, the disgusting taboo surrounding our human ability to increase our potential is disturbing. It honestly freaks me out just thinking about it... We are born into a society where we are told to become smart, to read books, to be intelligent, however nature has already laid out instruments to further our education at a cosmic level and folks question in a negative way... nature. Its just something I cannot understand.

How can one argue that Entheogens are bad? How can one argue that fruits and vegetables are bad for the human body? You can't. How can one make the argument that stakes are better for you than fruits and vegetables? You can't. I mean you may try... But how many lies are folks willing to fabricate in order to convince others of their point without them actually believing in the lies they themselves are spreading in the first place? I know its hard for some folks to follow up with this.... but honestly, step back and look at the bigger picture. We eat healthy food because its natural, its organic, it's not processed... these entheogens are consumed and digested just like food, yet folks still say "hey those are bad for you!" No, honestly i can't buy that. Who is someone to make that judgment? I know I have stated this again and again, and its an endless loop, but its ridiculous. This shouldn't be a taboo, folks need to really know what is growing out there and how it can help them over come the artificial pressures of today's society. I strongly believe we have been living life here on earth completely backwards and its thanks to the absence of Entheogens in our daily lives that we will continue to collapse and ask why!

I DO NOT ADVOCATE THE USE OF DRUGS!

reply to post by tetsuo


Good post..

Actually, it's called "businessman's lunch" *herp derp* . Anyway, it's funny how the 'delics always remind you how safe they are after the experience. Obviously the psychological factors are way bigger issue than the physical. Consuming thousands of micros of acid every day for a long period of time just isn't very smart.. something's gotta give. Most people that I've seen flippin' out are people who just got out of the army etc, so it contradicts with the experience, because the substance (or is it themselves?) is teaching them completely the opposite that they've been brainwashed to think.

Anyway, your post shows exactly the points why psychedelics should definitely be studied scientifically.. nobody really completely understands what it all is that they show us. On the other hand, every study and every documentary ever made about psychoactives is just a mirage compared to the experiences themselves. And I guess it'll stay like that for a long time.

Also, I refuse to label them as "drugs" since it's, well, idiotic.

reply to post by Devino


Thank you for taking the time to respond. I have thought about what you have written and appreciate the thought you have put into your response.

I too feel that entheogens may have helped me get "out of my mind". I think entheogens serve their purpose of getting my "enlightenment" ball rolling, but now I must see all as "enlightenment". I now look for everyday experiences that "blow my mind." Whether it is the little synchronicities or strange but familiar awareness, I definitely feel the seed growing from within.

I dabbled with lucid dreaming and the commonalities seem very close to entheogens. I found myself more attached to trying to experience the dream instead of watching it unfold. I was trying to take charge instead of peacefully surrendering. I woke up knowing that my state of consciousness was different, but I was unsure whether I went to a "higher" or "lower" consciousness.

I agree that all of life is a distortion (illusion, dream), but it makes more sense to me to stop producing more distortion. For me, the entheogens created more concepts and more dreamlike structure. I had specific rituals and a process that the mind was clinging to in order to have "enlightening" experiences. Recently, I have been simply trying to live in the now (as Eckart Tolle would say) and observe each moment. For me, there seems to be a decreasing "need" to have enlightening experiences because they are happening more frequently.

The recent meditative experiences I have had seems to stay with me longer, then with the entheogens. I am not sure why, because it always appeared that I had way more enlightening experiences when I was under the influence.

Again, I want to state that I think each person must decide for themselves which direction to go on this issue. It seems that entheogens may be the faster way, but what is time anyways?

reply to post by SmokeandShadow


Yes but how do people self diagnose their mental health status? That is why the guide, teacher, priest or psychopomp must be able to exclude those who maynot have the necessary level of mental health. I have seen many who have positivity but lack mental health and sometimes it takes time to see who has such problems as many are high-functioning mental health afflicted.

And what of the insight that comes from ehtogens? Is it truly an insight that assists use in understanding mundanity or is it merely getting high a la stoners??

Is it better than meditation?

I ask these questions because I cannot believe that the self delusion that we see elsewhere does not creep into the use of Entheogens.

I am being rigorous but not malicious.