WikiLeaks: Cable disclosure process seems extremely illogical and very suspect

Originally posted by v1rtu0s0
I still think it's too early to jump on the "Wikileaks is CIA/Soros" band wagon.

Now that I think of it, aren't Soros and the CIA diametrically opposed?

Originally posted by tauristercus
reply to post by jaynkeel

 

I have to admit that I'm starting to think along very similar lines.

At the beginning I was all hyped up with the imminent disclosure of all manner of nefarious governmental activities and looking forward to FULL disclosure ... however, what did we end up with instead ? Continued hype about "we've got the goods on the government and we're going to release all" but in reality I tend to think that we, the general populace, are being led by the proverbial "carrot on the end of a stick".

I have to ask again ... just WHEN are we going to see delivery of the "promised goods" that have been dangled before us these last few weeks ?
My best guess ... never.

edit on 4/12/10 by tauristercus because: (no reason given)

Speaking for myself thats entirely your opinion and I can humbly respect that without bashing your head open and hitting below the belt. Unfortunately some people are that graceful or respectful.

I guess suspicion is a typical reaction from those who cannot understand a genius at work. You either praise him or scold him all because you don't understand him. If the government hasn't completely shut WikiLeaks down or neutralized Assange it is probably because A) They are just as confounded as you and probably believe he is bluffing, or B) They are using him and WikiLeaks in spite of sacrificing their image, or C) There is a method of blackmail occurring, where Assange and whoever runs WL has information that can definitely cause the destruction of a country, maybe the US, and they have warned the US substantially of this fact, and now that over 100,000 people have the same information all across the globe in an encrypted file, there is not much the government can do even if it brought down WL and its structure, so with that, they are currently negotiating with WL behind the scenes, and WL is just slowly lowering its finger down onto the 'red button' while the US Government continutes to be fickle in its attempts to secure an agreement.

It is even possible that this is just a genuine threat against the US, and this is a genuine information initiative by WL, and the reason why nothing worthwhile is coming out is because the US is controlling the leak in some way or another until it can get to the source and shut everything down all at once. I believe that there is a government or an agency or an organization behind WL that not even Assange is aware of that is controlling what is leaked and at what amount, possibly to send a message that none of us who aren't at the top levels of Government can put together, but which they can, such as what the people who believe that this is a Mossad operation and Israel is trying to force the US into attacking Iran.

Maybe the killing of that nuclear scientist was a tangible message from the Mossad, the key elements of the attack was the explosion or the attack as a whole, and the target was something related to nuclear, meaning Mossad wanted to show the US that they need to finish off the nuclear program in Iran. That's just speculating. But judging from the first leaks, there definitely seems to be an Israeli connection. Judging from the leaks that followed, there definitely seems to be an idiot at the forefront of this all, and no one can understand the actions of a moron other than the moron or others like the moron, because the way WL is handling this is completely absurd. They gave all the data to specific media outlets, and why? Why, if those journalists have the information, are they not being more pragmatic about this? Why are they letting WL control them? Since when was WL an administrative or governing body? Those journalists are in part to blame for this. Why did not WL give certain topics or themes of data to certain bodies to investigate individually if they were concerned about people being able to absorb the amount of info? The LA TImes could have been responsible for documents pertaining to Iran while the NY Times could have been busy with the State Dept cables while the Guardian could have taken on the UK Embassy cables etc. and let them report on their findings in their respective papers so that the information is spread and the themes are specific and there is no loss in translation so to speak, you don't lose the substance.

Yes, there is something very wrong with WL, no doubt in my opinion. Their actions are for a purpose, and that purpose is something that is deeper than what you read on their front page. It is possible that initially when WL was founded that it was all genuine, but now someone has tapped into the potential of WL and has supplied them with the info that WL is now distributing precariously under the direction of whoever supplied it. If you want to have a better feel for the truth, read, listen, and watch anything that has to do with Bradley Manning. In the media, they have begun to focus on his troubled past, is sexuality, and his psychology. This is to get the general populace to see Brad Manning in a good/bad light, as if his actions were to harm rather than to inform. So now instead of people seeing Manning's possible actions in a rational, intellectualy, and discerning sense, they are seeing him in a purely emotional sense, which is irrational, and which is perfect for the government if they want to incriminate someone without evidence. Get what I mean? Manning's case, exactly like Lee Oswald was to JFK, contains the answer to who really is behind all of this. Lee was surpressed, he knew a lot more or a lot less than the government claimed he did, and never did he have the chance to say so. In fact, he constantly tried to point out to the public that he was never properly represented by a lawyer, and was never even told of his crime. This was smart, because if he just started shouting out "it was the gov! its a lie! its a set up!" and all that gibberish, the public would have immediately condemned him as a lunatic. The government would have made sure the media did so. Therefore he proved almost subliminally that the entire thing was a scandal and they were in the process of a cover-up by trying to speak to the rationality of the public, that he was not being treated as a suspect or a criminal, that the gov was withholding his rights as a detainee, and that this little fact should make people curious enough as to why the government is treating him in such a manner, but this was never given attention by anyone, even now in schools where we are showed the assassination and the videos of of Lee Oswald's public addresses. They all just say he was a stupid, moronic, racist...

You have to read between the lines in this was VERY effin carefully people. We should all stop talking about being suspicious of WL and start investigating as to why it is so, and what is making it so. My advice once again, look to Brad Manning.

reply to post by tauristercus


Ok, seriously stop with all this B.S. None of what you are saying is fact. Its all a matter of speculation and opinion.

HERES FACT.
Julian Assange Wiki

Julian Assange isn't a government co-conspirator, agent, or anything else. FFS, why can't you people just do some research yourselves? Julian Assange is a journalist and an ex-hacker! Why in the world would he be spreading disinformation? If any of you had the chance to see this man speak, and really hear what he has to say, you wouldn't be so quick to judge and condemn him. OF COURSE the Cables are taking forever! The guy is basically a bright red target for every country in the world. And it doesn't help matters that he's been detained (for crimes that have mysteriously arisen at the same time as the Cable leaks no less). Now why would he put himself in such an obviously precarious position? Because Wikileaks needed a public face. The guys not out for fame, fortune, disinformation or the like. He is simply providing a desperately needed public service. Its not exactly the New York Times, so delays and somewhat of a messy release schedule is to be expected. -_-

Do some rational thinking before you post.

Originally posted by Kryyptyk
reply to post by tauristercus

 

Ok, seriously stop with all this B.S. None of what you are saying is fact. Its all a matter of speculation and opinion.

HERES FACT.
Julian Assange Wiki

Julian Assange isn't a government co-conspirator, agent, or anything else. FFS, why can't you people just do some research yourselves? Julian Assange is a journalist and an ex-hacker! Why in the world would he be spreading disinformation? If any of you had the chance to see this man speak, and really hear what he has to say, you wouldn't be so quick to judge and condemn him. OF COURSE the Cables are taking forever! The guy is basically a bright red target for every country in the world. And it doesn't help matters that he's been detained (for crimes that have mysteriously arisen at the same time as the Cable leaks no less). Now why would he put himself in such an obviously precarious position? Because Wikileaks needed a public face. The guys not out for fame, fortune, disinformation or the like. He is simply providing a desperately needed public service. Its not exactly the New York Times, so delays and somewhat of a messy release schedule is to be expected. -_-

Do some rational thinking before you post.

its not that people believe he is spreading disinfo, its that the reasons for spreading info is disingenuous!
do some rational thinking before you post! grr.

Originally posted by Kryyptyk
reply to post by tauristercus

 

Ok, seriously stop with all this B.S. None of what you are saying is fact. Its all a matter of speculation and opinion.

You're absolutely correct that it's all just speculation on my part. For all I know, Assange has some masterplan that he's working to and eventually will reveal all. I most certainly am NOT saying or implying that Assange/WL are pawns of the government, CIA operatives, etc.

What I am saying is that in Assange's position having found myself all of a sudden in possession of hundred of thousands of potentially damaging/incriminating governmental documents, that I would have invested some effort in the time period between receiving them and releasing them, in going through them all and prioritizing them. You can't convince me that Assange does NOT have a very good idea of where the "interesting stuff" is to be found within that mass of cables. He MUST know as that's the entire premise behind his release of the cables in the 1st place.
Also, it seems obvious to me that having NO guarantee how long I'd remain a free agent, that I'd make a concerted effort to get as many of the most damaging and insidious documents out into the public domain.
Start with the most secret ones as they'd be most likely to contain the "good stuff". Even if a decision was reached not to release EVERY damning cable at once, at least release a couple of them on a daily basis mixed in with other less important cables. But so far all I'm seeing after almost a full weeks worth of release are cables that while containing interesting reading, really have not had any strength or bite behind them ... embarrassing perhaps, but certainly not of "damaging potential".

And in the meantime the efforts to shutdown WL is increasing.
At this rate, WL will find itself shutdown permanently long before they've released anything significant.

Finally, as I mentioned earlier, why not a single mention (besides Afghanistan & Korea) of any other significant event that's transpired in the world in the last 2 decades ? Instead, WL selects some insignificant cable(s) back in 1966 (and other random years) ... WHY ?

Assange is a dangerous idiot.
All he is doing is posting whole scale the info that was hacked. There is no thought behind it, no agenda. There was stuff that was good to know, there was stuff that has compromised world safety. It's called 'throwing out the baby with the bath water'.
He has an issue with self gratification I think.
He certainly needs to engage his brain.

Originally posted by tauristercus
Finally, as I mentioned earlier, why not a single mention (besides Afghanistan & Korea) of any other significant event that's transpired in the world in the last 2 decades ? Instead, WL selects some insignificant cable(s) back in 1966 (and other random years) ... WHY ?

Perhaps because no one has leaked any other significant information on an event that's transpired in the world in the last 2 decades? You make it sound like Wikileaks holds leaked information on absolutely every event in history and are just selecting which portions of that history they will release.

Just because they have cables that are dated at 1966 and another 1972, it doesn't mean they must have every cable dated in between. They have what they were given, nothing more.

reply to post by starchild10


If there were no thought behind WL methodology, we would not be having this discussion. Instead, we might be out in the streets, protesting, boycotting, and ultimately revolting, which is why the strategy being applied to the leaks have most certainly been well thought out.

You don't hold a nation hostage for nothing

Originally posted by starchild10
Assange is a dangerous idiot.

The only type of people Assange is dangerous to are those such as yourself; who fears change and are ignorantly content, living within their tiny bubble, complements of their friendly and honest governments.

Originally posted by Navieko

Just because they have cables that are dated at 1966 and another 1972, it doesn't mean they must have every cable dated in between. They have what they were given, nothing more.

So with in excess of a quarter million cables to choose from, what are the odds that they have NOTHING from Desert Storm, or 911 or the search for Bin Laden ?

In fact, 911 alone must have generated an incredible number of cables as the repercussions of the strike reverberated around the world.

And does WL even so much as hint that it has anything pertaining to 911 or Bin Laden ? Nope.
Instead, we get some historically worthless cable dating back to 1966 and then jumping randomly from one year to another.

Just of the top of my head:

1. Release the cables in historical and chronological date order so that we can see how interactions between the worlds leaders and governments developed over time.

OR

2. How about starting the release with the most significant (SECRET) documents 1st then working your way down to the least significant stuff (UNCLASSIFIED).

But for some reason, WL just seems to be pulling cables randomly out of a hat with apparently no regards to date/time, relevance or severity. How does a 1966 cable relate to say a cable from 2009 ? Whats the tie-in or link between them ? Answer ... there doesn't seem to be any.

Look, I'm all for public disclosure of these diplomatic cables but c'mon WL, get your act together, do some serious analysis of the contents of these cables and make the public releases relevant and worth our time to study them !!

reply to post by tauristercus


I understand what you mean, but its a little difficult to answer. You have to keep in mind that Wikileaks only releases what they are given, or so they say. I can't tell you if they do their own digging or not, but given the fact that their editor-in-chief has a hacker history, I'd say its a possibility. Most of the 'big' events you're talking about have already been made public, with the others remaining shrouded in secrecy. Think of UFOs for instance. Whether you put faith into a UFO theory, or remain opposed, you have to agree that the UFO phenomenon has been numero uno in the conspiracy realm. So why not leak documents of this nature? Well the answer is simple. Either Wikileaks has been unable to obtain these documents, or they have been able but have been thwarted, or they don't consider the UFO phenomenon important enough to take precedence over political hysteria. The same applies to other events, such as the BP fiasco, North Korean missle crisis, The Christmas Bomber, etc. If you also take into account the barrage of attacks on the Wikileaks servers, and the added attacks on their personnel, it becomes clear that their resources are just simply too weak.

reply to post by Navieko


*high five*

Well put my friend. Well put.

reply to post by tauristercus


Another thought...

IF there is some kind of hidden agenda behind Wikileaks, I suppose the best way to counteract it would be to form some kind of Wikileaks Accountability group. That group could then push for total transparency from Wikileaks. >_< Pretty weird when you have to whistleblow the whistleblower...

Originally posted by Kryyptyk
reply to post by tauristercus

 

I understand what you mean, but its a little difficult to answer. You have to keep in mind that Wikileaks only releases what they are given, or so they say. I can't tell you if they do their own digging or not, but given the fact that their editor-in-chief has a hacker history, I'd say its a possibility. Most of the 'big' events you're talking about have already been made public, with the others remaining shrouded in secrecy.

I get where you're coming from but correct me if I'm wrong but didn't WL and Assange hype up these cables prior to release by describing them as "world history changing" (I'm paraphrasing) which carries the implication that they have information in their possession of monumental significance.

To me, that would automatically HAVE to include virtually EVERY major significant political/military event thats occurred in recent times. For crying out loud, they've got their hands on a QUARTER MILLION diplomatic exchanges and correspondences ... you can't tell me that the majority of that is just boring and mediocre.

Grab the worlds attention by starting the disclosure with something HUGE, SIGNIFICANT and POWERFUL.
Make us gasp at what happens in the hallways of global power. Stun us with revelations of how the world really is manipulated by those we've elected into power.

If you also take into account the barrage of attacks on the Wikileaks servers, and the added attacks on their personnel, it becomes clear that their resources are just simply too weak.

In that case, WL should NOT have released a single document until they had invested enough time to do a thorough analysis of the contents ... and then developed a strategy of release to maximize the disclosure impact.

Having looked through a significant number of the already released cables, I certainly am NOT looking forward to having to invest a significant amount of time over the next few weeks looking for those rare gems buried underneath mounds and mounds of trivia.

reply to post by tauristercus


You are absolutely right. Wikileaks DID hype the Cable release. I personally think that the release was interrupted in the wake of all these assorted attacks. I don't think they knew how the world governments were going to react. I think your idea of releasing the more pertinent cables first would have been terrific, but for some reason they stuck with their old ways (Afghan and Iraqi war logs) and tried releasing everything as is.

reply to post by Kryyptyk

Julian Assange is a journalist and an ex-hacker! Why in the world would he be spreading disinformation?

Maybe he got a ticket for one of the Arks when planet-x hits, 21 december 2012 ?
Just kidding, i am also curious about WL, esp. the money situation, obviously they have
an opportunity to make vast amounts of money if they trade the markets appropriate before
a release on say a major US bank. The stock will tank, anyone that has shorted that stock
or holds any form of negative position will make money, issuing calls or buying puts could
make WL operators multi millionaires. Also applies to those reporters/newspapers who got
all the 250.000+ cables.Perhaps that's why they are timing the releases, trying to disrupt
such schemes ? /Amen.

1) First of all, these cables are digital files, not even documents and cannot be verified, There are NO signatures on any of these cables released so far.
2) Wikileaks used to release to the public first, not the newspapers.
3) 3 newspapers covering the same release is very unusual. Normally, only one of those papers would get the exclusive rights for initial release.
4) How can Assange be "wanted" yet can travel freely and appear on television?
5) None of these files have any earthshaking information, they're more like government junk mail.
6) Much of what we've heard already sounds like an administration wish list - "attack Iran", "Pakistan is sheltering the Taliban" etc.

IMO - this is a government op. Either Assange has been turned or was an asset from the get-go, it doesn't matter. They will use this as an excuse to give government control over the web just like in China.

The big media NEVER used to give Wikileaks much coverage, not they are falling over themselves to be first with "Wikileaks News".

This should all be fairly transparent to any CT worth their salt.

reply to post by tauristercus


This is called building up, wikileaks want the releases to have maximum impact and the way to do this is to release it so slowly that it will be impossible to bury any of the information.
This means the MSM can comment in realtime with the public, thus making it impossible for the MSM to twist and spin the facts.

Wikileaks has an agenda, it's open government, if you support it, you support wikileaks. If not you support the current governments tactics of deceits and lies.

And if wikileaks is permanently shut down the security pack codes will be released, so no worries there

Currently released so far....

683 documets of 251,287

And the impact so far is enormous, i think Assange is right..... In a few months history has taken a new turn.

My thoughts on the RAMDOM release of private files is that their just simply random.

Although theres the obvious point that hes "clearing his throat" so that his voice can be heard.
How else do you get the peoples attention, other than to show what goverments really think about each other?

It may drive a wedge of paranoia between countrys, but the ugly truth has now been made clear for all by releasing private communications between diplomats/goverments etc..

Its clever, because it strikes at the heart strings of people.

When you hear negative comments, and are told that they we're taken out of context, and an indivduals 'private' thoughts, you may - "wright it off" but.. The seed has been planted.

Now that Wikileaks has SOME attention and better publisity, the path has been made clear for more to be released.

Look at how their earlier releases we're quickly forgotten, and since Julian Assange has become the figure head for the Wikileak ship, it now has a face to go with its voice.

The only question is how long till this ship springs a leak and sinks?


..Also, and a bit off topic, I like the way how politicians can quickly bring in new 'gagging' legislation when they really want to. But when the public want something... Its a long, drawn out process of voting etc. This seems to happen everywhere and I think this'll be manipulated into more 'Need for more Internet Police' debates.

eee.

As I've been saying throughout this thread, the way WL is releasing cable information borders on the illogical and appears to be nothing more than a daily smattering of random picks ... no rhyme or reason behind them. Why pick these particular cables and not others ?

Take today's releases as an example:

2004 - 1 cable
2005 - 2 cables
2006 - 2 cables
2007 - 2 cables
2008 - 4 cables
2009 - 2 cables

and as for cable origin

Spain - 10 cables
Brazil - 3 cables

and the reason for picking and releasing these particular cables ? NONE that I can see.

Cable content ? Mediocre at best with the highest security rating merely confidential.

It's been almost a week ... WHERE are the cables we were promised would be HISTORY CHANGING ?