Proof Jesus did not die for our sins!!!!!!

reply to post by rebeldog

The story of Adam and Eve is about when our consciousness changed. Before we were like the animals, not aware of ourselves. Imagine that animals can think, but humans can think about their thinking, so can judge the thoughts in a dualistic way, good/bad, right/wrong, etc. Therefore, before Adam and Eve there was really no sin, the word sin did not exist. The word sin is a concept, before the word, there could be no sin. This is why they no longer lived in paradise, yet they still lived in the garden of Eden. We still live in the garden of Eden. However, because we have the audacity to judge Gods beautiful creation, we no longer live in paradise.
We are all searching for the paradise lost, it is here always.

Adam and Eve were booted from Eden not only because they sinned, but also becuase sin would forever be a part of them.

Jesus dying on the cross wiped out those sins that had already been commited. But Eden was not returned because, although they were adsolved of all sins, they still knew sin.


An interesting thing worth mentioning.

Eden is the only place Man has laid eyes on God in the Bible.

The bible is full of plot holes.
You really didn't bring any proof, but I get what you mean. You see the problem is that even if he did die for our sins and we were cleansed, we were still capable of sinning. So we became clean but not perfect. Which is the reason why humans were kicked out in the first place, imperfection. You can't try and use logic to explain events in the bible if you see it all as truth because it isn't. There's too much metaphorical crap and so much of that is left up to interpretation. Problem is people tend to over-think things and if you don't have all the info in the first place it all becomes speculation.

Originally posted by rebeldog

Why wasn't Eden delivered back?? if it was taken away due to sin and Jesus died for our sins [i.e. Took our sins away]

Because he died for sins YOU would commit in the future. And I feel its more like he could of just eliminated this entire realm but instead died to show YOU true compassion for others and just left till he needs to be incarnated back into this realm when its time for the herd to leave. Just my 2 cents

The organized religions will let us all believe that we are imperfect and dirty. What if the message Jesus and the Buddha were sharing was that we are perfect and whole right now. Christ is not the surname of Jesus. Christ is christ Consciousness. It's all about consciousness. The message Jesus tried to deliver, but the ptb took over the message , it got lost and manipulated along the way. Then used to make us feel unworthy. Unworthy, scared and easy to control.

reply to post by Big Raging Loner


the ones represent eleven eleven

This is a simple matter.
Dirt was raised up as many forms of life. Animals are not sinful. Animals are subject to decay. Man is an animal which was selected to be the emissary between Life who is alive, and the lives which were given life. Part of this connection was the provision of everlasting life. Man sought "freedom," but freedom, in this and most contexts, is deceiving. Man did not know the way, so he became lost. Man cannot bear an eternal burden, so he became weak. Christ was the provision which "patched" our malfunctions. Those who are alive, will remain alive, those who are dead, what little life they live will decay. Physical decay is more similar to spiritual decay than I care to ever dwell on (although I do at times).

If you are free and without understanding/life/truth, your ways are lost.
If you are free and without expression of understanding/life/truth, your journey is short.

If you are free and with understanding/life/truth, your ways are purposed/purposeful.
If you are free and with expression of understanding/life/truth, your journey is everlasting.

We are certainly priestly animals.
What animal thinks so godly/magically/creatively/etc.
What man is free from the decay/death?

We are distinct, and the same.
We are individuals, and one
However, in this blending dichotomy, those whose eyes are set on death will end in death, but those whose eyes are set on life will end in life.

We live in an age where fools often become old and the young often appear to be more wise than they are.
These are the inherent flaws in the advances of men who cannot set their eyes on life. Nevertheless, every ounce of life bows to Life who is alive.

When someone says to a spiritual/religious person that there is no "god," I agree, except that, what we can agree that unifies us in principle, life, is truly alive and is "god" in more than principle. Idols, like the dead men who set their eyes upon them, decay, but Truth does not decay.

Because Eden existed as a place free of sin. those who ask. Not everyone alive falls under the grace of his sacrifice - only those who accept it. sin to exist, it provided an escape from the repercussions of it.

THAT is your answer..

God has left us with two free will choices... Life or death... He did not have to do that..

Believe or not. GOD lets us judge ourselves..

Originally posted by Yissachar1
God has left us with two free will choices... Life or death... He did not have to do that..

This is an incomplete thought, although a popular one.

Choosing death is like choosing gravity. You may attempt to escape it, but it is a law. At some point we may defy gravity, but we will never do away with it as a law within this realm. Same with decay unto death. We may dance brightly to ignore or defeat darkness, but it is only a temporary and false freedom.

Choosing life is like choosing mathematics. You may attempt to alter it, but it is logically and consistently formed. At many points we increase in mathematics, but we will never create or destroy mathematics. Same with living unto Life. One and one equal two, not because we recognize it, but because it is, just as Life is.

Originally posted by Yissachar1
Believe or not. GOD lets us judge ourselves..

This is certainly how it plays out, but it disregards that we do not establish ourselves. We certainly are godly animals, but we are yet animals. Those who conduct themselves in a godly manner, do so because Life is within them and they are subject to certain things, not because they found a special formula (that is the way of thinking of idolaters). Those who conduct themselves in an animal-like, or deathly, manner, do so because they are still subject to much decay. Where a seed of faith is established, it is also sustained. True freedom is not found in this realm. Freedom is the provision of God, not the fulcrum of salvation. There are many ways to say these things, but I need to go back to work. I have little time, but this is an interesting thread. I may return.

reply to post by faceoff85


double post

reply to post by faceoff85


thats kinda how I see it also as in a progression but not right away and history seems to teach this also even with nonconstructive growth alongside

Ezekiel-
They will say, "This land that was laid waste has become like the garden of Eden

2Peter-
But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day.

Hebrews-
For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken later about another day. There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God; for anyone who enters God's rest also rests from his own work

Hosea-
After two days he will revive us; on the third day he will restore us, that we may live in his presence.

Philippians-
be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law

reply to post by Dasher


As I said, life or death... That choice is yours.. There is no one to blame how your life turned out but you, We have all been given moral reasoning to govern our lives and have been tested. We have had pure crap pointed our way that makes us question God.. Yet there is no TESTIMONY without a test..

We may not have the choice of circumstance that is put our way, but we DO have the choice of how we REACT to it...
Yeshua was given the same choice but chose US and Gods will.,

That will is love..

Pure and simple... Without condition...

He is love., Love is life. .

He chose the cross to prove it..

Originally posted by Yissachar1
Pure and simple... Without condition...

So, unlike a qualifier?

Originally posted by Yissachar1
Yet there is no TESTIMONY without a test..

Incorrect. A testimony is a declaration of expressed truth (which is what life is), whereas a test is a qualifier (decay cannot achieve without provision). The provision of Life is not one of qualifications, it is one of existence. Elijah. God is Life. Christ is an expressed truth, or Abraham would not have had faith (understanding of truth). Christ is not a test to pass just as He is no longer a person to meet physically. You see, there are no idols. But instead, men set up qualifiers/idols, of which even Christ has become one to most. To fully understand and express the brotherhood of God's provision is to be Christ-like. However, it is only "like" because we are not self-authored or "first and last expression." You must understand that I am telling you secrets (at least in relative semantics). Give to God and to your neighbor as yourself. God gives to us, and to our neighbor as ourselves. The decay of this world is what robs/divides. Fire is decay also. But Life is the Living Water. The Living Truth. The Living Life. They were certainly expressed in Christ chiefly and effectually, however, not only. Otherwise, you and I would be lost and blind. Could you imagine being lost because you are ignorant, and also blind so that you don't even know who or what to question? And while some are in such a situation, it is with great hope that I see so many possible ways to express God to others. Isn't this the picture of God to us? The shepherd to the sheep? Then to others, as Christ would, be a shepherd sheep, to the weak sheep. Why do you think that Christ even advocated patience and consideration to the Empire? Because they are (despite their fiery eyes and actions) also simply lost and blind sheep who need as much grace as myself who is, in relative terms to Everlasting Life, lost and blind. To the gentle sheep, the wicked sheep are certainly wolves, but to the Good Shepherd, even the true wolves are torn down like the branch He beats them with. Where grace takes root, this is simply the Word and the Spirit of the Word telling us children a story.

As a note, I purposefully ran the paragraphs together.

Originally posted by Yissachar1
We have all been given moral reasoning to govern our lives and have been tested.

It is quite clear that many enter this world without such abilities. Whether it be a simple malformation of an organ, or malformation of spiritual/physical development, many are cut very short (we have so much available to us if we are even communicating through the internet let alone fully cognizant, so express grace to your neighbor). And so I must return to the dreaded decay analogies... Decay is prevalent and natural. It is "normal.' Death is the discontinuation of all life. In this world, the spectra we cover are limited in scope.

(While this means we cannot "see" spiritual things, it also means that death hides.)

Continuing, we live now in the crossroads, or "gray," which is prevalent with decay and growth. So, where we are decaying, it is because our beginning is "recalling." Where we are growing, it is because Life establishes and sustains. Freedom comes when we are fully one. We do not enter this world as the first godly man because the process of decay had already begun. We are slaves to it. The provision of God is for some of the decay to also produce healthy fruit of life. And a spiritual man can understand why so many mentally disabled are far more Christ-like than most "normal" people.

(That is not to say that all disabled are spiritually alive. The Spirit grows as it grows and where it grows it is glorious.)

However, we are not yet free of decay that support our physical bodies. If you were free, you would not be made of stone as all creatures are. Christ's provision must be understood in this context as well. His provision was one directly satiating His body. His body is often in the dirt obtaining nutrients from decaying things. I can play bible tag all day long. The scriptures are certainly clear about many things common these days, but Truth is recognized evidently without them. It is spiritual decay which entrances the dying by a physics of sort.

Yeshua ben Josef? He reminds me of a few fallen presidents who rubbed the Fed the wrong way and wound up on fiat currency. I don't think he bothered to factor me into the equation when he was lynched (yes, hanged). I really wouldn't expect that of him either, and I really wouldn't expect an omnipotent being to run out of original (and much less violent, traumatizing) ways of getting my points (pardon the pun) across to my creation - so much that he resorted to sacrificing his own sun..er..son...er.. wait. We're talking about Julius Caesar, right? Or Jesus Christ? Heh.

Y'all need to read a bit more. That is, more than the Bible. The Word of Elohim. The Gods.

The Gods, they must be crazy.

↑ - Has an issue with Life consuming. Stop eating then. Your violence towards lesser creatures is unbearable to them. How would you interface with a bacterium intimately? How would you mold a bacterium into your heir? Would you not even have more rights if you also breathed such into existence? And while you speak lightly about the provision of God based on burdensome doctrines, you also destroy life to continue with your days. I hope that, at least, you are worthy of what you eat. I certainly feel humbled by my nature and grateful for confidence to take life which i did not establish, and, in our current culture, sustain. The burden of Life is not the same sickness that is evident in the false teachings that are so pervasive in this time. The burden of Life is light, but is heavy only because dirt is weak, or lost and blind, apart from Life. The burden of Death is heavy, but is light only because dirt is naturally numb like the rocks that make up our bones.

reply to post by rebeldog

very very good question !! Nice to see you ask the good questions ! very intresting to think about this ....
I also, since I was a child did ask me some question of the same kind : why, goddamned, did G-d chase Adam and Eva ( or Joe Six-pack and his girl-friend Suzy ) out of the Garden of Eden and did the serpent Satan still being allowed to frequent this super ********** 10 stars resort ????
very big injustice ?? yes, of course !!!
we as humans are the victims of a stupid game between G-d and Satan !!!!
I am a Christian, I believe in God and his Son Jesus but I am revolted against him because Satan has much too much power here in this stupid world !!!
Some say that Satan has his home here on Earth, he should be the Master of this one : he just has to play with us poor humans ........ to see how he can disturb us, deceive us and push us in sin !!!!
nice to know about this, but Jesus could have told us about this game !!!
this is NOT a serious game, this is CASINO game !!!! not a GOD-worthly scenario !!!
Jesus, STILL TODAY you do allow Satan to stay in the garden of Eden, how can we believe that once we CAN re-enter again in this garden without he being there again to smash us again out of it ????
He has too much, much too much power Jesus !!!! What do we have against his trickeries ????
really I think we are NOT free, because your game is played with Satan always there to forge it !!!!!
peace anyway but be aware we are the victims forever : God did chase us out of Paradise but he did allow that stupid Satanic serpent animal to stay in it ???!!!
desperate Sunlionspirit.

What is wrong with right now? unless you think about it? The power of thought is a great slave but a useless master! This moment is perfect and you are perfect. You stand right here and right now as perfection. This is paradise, yet the thoughts tell you that there is better. Really this is it, there is nothing else. Satan is a term used to describe the way thought deceives and tricks us into believing that there is more to be had.

The word sin means to miss the mark. The name of Jesus was not Jesus 'Christ', Christ was not his surname. Christ implies 'Christ consciousness'. The cross is like the cross hairs on a target. If we miss the middle, or event horizon we will not be happy and at peace.
If one would like to experience 'god', it is omnipresent. The only place you can do this is now and here - think cross '+'. I like to think if you join now and here together, you get nowhere and this is where god lives. If you stay in the presence of god, which is now, which is the only place(nowhere) that you can use the eyes to see and ears to hear.
When we miss the mark, miss now, we live in the shadow, as the light is not in the past or the future, only right here and right now really exists.
Life is not something you have. Life is what you are.
Aliveness is felt here.
We all have the same name - that we call ourselves. 'I', we could also be called here, now, this, presence, awareness or aliveness.
Paradise now. Lost is somewhere else, Maya, illusion.

please refer to this thread to get a better idea of the word PROOF.

It doesn't matter what you believe about Jesus Christ, and it doesn't matter what anyone else thinks about him, it only matters what I think about him. When judgment day comes, there isn't but one guy standing there naked and alone. What he believes is all that matters to him.

reply to post by network dude


The only thing you will ever know for certain is: I exist. Or this, that is happening. All else, is just a story. No words will ever be-able to convey the truth.