FACTS about "Ground Zero" "Mosque"

1. It's not at ground zero

As Charlie Brooker points out:

Perhaps spatial reality functions differently on the other side of the Atlantic, but here in London, something that is "two minutes' walk and round a corner" from something else isn't actually "in" the same place at all. I once had a poo in a pub about two minutes' walk from Buckingham Palace. I was not subsequently arrested and charged with crapping directly onto the Queen's pillow. That's how "distance" works in Britain. It's also how distance works in America, of course, but some people are currently pretending it doesn't, for daft political ends.

2. It's not a mosque, it will have one though

3. It's a cultural center

From the Park51 site:

* outstanding recreation spaces and fitness facilities (swimming pool, gym, basketball court)
* a 500-seat auditorium

* a restaurant and culinary school

* cultural amenities including exhibitions

* education programs

* a library, reading room and art studios

* childcare services

* a mosque, intended to be run separately from Park51 but open to and accessible to all members, visitors and our New York community

* a September 11th memorial and quiet contemplation space, open to all

So the Mosque is completely separate from the project as a whole.

4. "Cordoba" has nothing to do with conquering. When Muslims conquered Cordoba, Spain (as others had before them) it turned the area into a culturally diverse, tolerant, enlightened community where Muslims and Christians worked together, side-by-side.

How the city tells its own history:

Starting with the Romans in 152, it was later conquered by the Emirate of Al-Andalus who reigned there from 711 to 1256 under the dynasty of Omeya. During this time, Cordoba was very prosperous culturally, economically, grew in population and what we can still appreciate today, in its art.

Cordoba: "Crossing of Cultures", not "Muslim conquest":

CORDOBA: "Crossing of Cultures" ... As impressive and surprising Cordoba presents itself to today's visitor, as impressive and surprising was its past. Not many know that in 11th century it was one of the most important capitals in Europe. People of the most different cultures and religions - Jews, Muslims and Christians - were living peacefully together, and important philosophers, scientists and artists emerged from here.

To perpetuate any other information as "fact" is grossly negligent and a complete disregard for truth.


edit: change "Booker" to "Brooker". oopsie!

[edit on 30-8-2010 by nunya13]

S n F just for the correctness and Charlie Brooker bit, it is Brooker by the way, thanks

Gosh darn I thought I'd stretched to two lines already.

[edit on 30-8-2010 by Thepreye]

Thanks for the information from the link you found. You are a great person!

reply to post by Thepreye


Thanks for the heads up on Brooker.

I think people should stop arguing about the "mosque's" right to be there and, instead, just start perpetuating the truth.

I'm sorry, I still think the place is in bad taste.

That's just my opinion.

Wether it's on the door step of GZ or half a mile away, it's too close.

Not yet, not for a long while will the city be ready.

Nonetheless, S + F for bringing the truth mate!!

i believe it was a burlington coat factory at this site on 9/11 and it was hit by parts of the crashing planes and bodies therefore this is ground zero. it doesn't take a genius to realize that ground zero is not just the twin tower buildings.

Thanks. Lots more info and attempts at tracing facts and source in the thread linked in my signature. Lots of disinfo and misinfo on this one since day 1, starting at some point after this interview on FoxNews in December lol



[edit on 8/30/2010 by ~Lucidity]

reply to post by kiwifoot


What about the 2 other mosques within similar distance to Ground Zero? Should they be moved?

What about churches in Hiroshima and Nagasaki, should they be removed?

What about the dozens of Muslim they pray daily at actual Ground Zero, should they be banned? They pray for their Muslim-American relatives that were killed alongside countless other Americans.

[edit on 30-8-2010 by misinformational]

Originally posted by Yetichi
it doesn't take a genius to realize that ground zero is not just the twin tower buildings.

Ground Zero Definition

: the point directly above, below, or at which a nuclear explosion occurs 2 : the center or origin of rapid, intense, or violent activity or change;

In regards to WTC

2. ground zero - the site of the World Trade Center before it was destroyed

In every sense of the term, it is to describe the exact place where an explosion or attack occurred, not the surrounding area that may have experienced some damage from projectiles. It is okay for you to consider the building as being part of ground zero, but it is not okay to insinuate that anyone who doesn't agree with you is not very smart.

reply to post by ~Lucidity


Not trying to tread on your thread (no rhyme intended). Just fed up and thought I'd spell it out pretty simply.

reply to post by nunya13

Wasn't trying to tread on this one either....just thought you might be interested in the collection...which I've been slacking on lately.

Originally posted by misinformational
reply to post by kiwifoot

 

What about the dozens of Muslim they pray daily at actual Ground Zero, should they be banned? They pray for their Muslim-American relatives that were killed alongside countless other Americans.

[edit on 30-8-2010 by misinformational]

Not to mention the cultural center will have a 9/11 memorial in a place intended for quiet contemplation and prayer by anyone from any religion.

reply to post by ~Lucidity


It's all good. Yours is certainly more involved and worthy of merit. I do think this entire debacle is one giant distraction (at the least) or attempt to conjure up discontent to a dangerous point by who-knows (at the most). Not to say the issue is not worthy of discussion, but the hate and untruths being spewed has gotten to be too much and the world is looking at Americans as if they have lost their mind over this issue--as is evidence by Brooker's article.

Originally posted by misinformational
reply to post by kiwifoot

 

What about the 2 other mosques within similar distance to Ground Zero? Should they be moved?

What about churches in Hiroshima and Nagasaki, should they be removed?

What about the dozens of Muslim they pray daily at actual Ground Zero, should they be banned? They pray for their Muslim-American relatives that were killed alongside countless other Americans.

[edit on 30-8-2010 by misinformational]

Well no, of course not, existing Mosques shouldn't be moved.

As far as I'm aware, the US planes that dropped the bombs weren't Christian Zealots, eradicating non-believers, trying to START a conflict, were they? So that example is also ridiculous.

I just think, that having a "Muslim Centre" so close to the scene where so called Muslim Terrorist killed 3,000 people is in extremely bad form mate.

EDIT forgot your last point,, so what??? Because there were Muslim victims and there are Muslim families showing their respects it makes a difference??

Man, call in the PC Brigade. What's next, Neo-Nazi Gift shop outside Auschwitz?

I know, lets open a machine gun shop on the cliffs overlooking Omaha beach.

it's about respect, for the dead, for the dying in two wars, for the families of the victims that Jumped and died horrifically...I don't give a damn about the feelings and sensibilities of a few Muslim Tourists....God I'm so angry !!


[edit on 30-8-2010 by kiwifoot]

Thanks for this breath of fresh air... S+F

Some common sense brought to an argument that is often filled with the over-emotional ranting’s of angry boss-eyed bigots

Originally posted by nunya13
1. It's not at ground zero

As Charlie Brooker points out:

Perhaps spatial reality functions differently on the other side of the Atlantic, but here in London, something that is "two minutes' walk and round a corner" from something else isn't actually "in" the same place at all. I once had a poo in a pub about two minutes' walk from Buckingham Palace. I was not subsequently arrested and charged with crapping directly onto the Queen's pillow. That's how "distance" works in Britain. It's also how distance works in America, of course, but some people are currently pretending it doesn't, for daft political ends.

who is this Charles Brooker guy? hes got a great sense of humor in line with mine. Is he a talk show host? I am in america and if he is on the bbc I would like to look him up. Also to say it in brit speak: Here Here, your post is pure minted chap!

[edit on 30-8-2010 by tigpoppa]

reply to post by nunya13


well that is just some person that made up that dictionary definition so i don't put much faith in it. anything physically damaged on that day is part of ground zero. there really is no other way around it.

Originally posted by Yetichi
reply to post by nunya13

 

well that is just some person that made up that dictionary definition so i don't put much faith in it.

Is this really the barrier that logical positions have to overcome in this matter? Really?

anything physically damaged on that day is part of ground zero. there really is no other way around it.

I sprained my ankle on 9/11, is it now part of ground zero?

Originally posted by Muckster
Thanks for this breath of fresh air... S+F

Some common sense brought to an argument that is often filled with the over-emotional ranting’s of angry boss-eyed bigots

So because I chose to respect the victims I'm a bigot?

Over emotional, you aren't an American are you? Nor me, but trust me, if someone bombed the heart out of whatever city you're from, then less than a decade later a centre devoted to the religion of the bombers was planne3d, lets see how "over-emotional" you'd be!!





[edit on 30-8-2010 by kiwifoot]

Originally posted by Yetichi
reply to post by nunya13

 

well that is just some person that made up that dictionary definition so i don't put much faith in it. .

It came from the Merriam Webster dictionary. The most popular dictionary in the world. Either way, my point was that you should not to insinuate stupidity on the part of people who don't agree with your definition of "Ground Zero" and chose to go with a definition from the most trusted dictionary.

As I said, you can believe whatever you want. But that doesn't make me or anyone else stupid for not agreeing.