Evolutionist I can prove to you that what you believe (evolution) is based on illogical reasoning, i

From evolution to abiogenesis straight to statistical "logic" for God.
And then we get to the biblical verses.
Way to disprove evolution, mate.

Stop arguing with village idiots, move past them!!

reply to post by MrXYZ


Thanks MrXYZ for your post although I'm not sure why you posted the vid. Do you really agree and believe what the 'gentleman' was saying about Christians? If so I'm sorry to hear that cuz my granmama told me one time that if you have nothing good to say about people - better not say it because you only make a fool of yourself. So I'm hoping that you're much better than the 'gentleman' in the vid.

BTW, can I ask you something, who are the fundamentalist Christians you're reffering to?


ty,
edmc2





ty,
edmc2

Originally posted by hippomchippo
From evolution to abiogenesis straight to statistical "logic" for God.
And then we get to the biblical verses.
Way to disprove evolution, mate.

Interesting take hippomchippo, but it goes both ways.

Evolutionist used God and the bible to disprove Creation and call it logic.

ty,
edmc2

reply to post by edmc^2


Oh, I see that you can dish it out, but you can't take it, can you?


Don't you DARE ignore me...

*PROVE THAT HUMANS WERE INTELLIGENTLY DESIGNED*

And if you quote from *ANY* religious Text... You Lose.

-Edrick

[edit on 4-9-2010 by Edrick]

Originally posted by Edrick


*PROVE THAT HUMANS WERE INTELLIGENTLY DESIGNED*

Well the fact is we cannot prove anything about the universe. Everything we think we know has ended up being very surface level observations and the closer we look ALL of it ends up totally incomprehensible.

So I find your CAP demands rather funny since nothing is provable with every aspect of the universe we live in.

Life in general is considered impossible but it still happened. It is not creating amino acids that is the hard part it is aligning them into long strings to make protein. With 20 common amino acids that align in a 200 to 1000 string to produce protein (the building blocks of life) and then with the ability to recreate itself pushes the odds to 10 to the 200 power…. Think of a slot machine with a 1000 wheels with 20 combinations per wheel and you need to hit jackpot to make one protein string. This is the reason why we cannot recreate life from scratch for we can try for a trillion years and still not do it.

after having read a few of the post here I'm calling this one a draw, neither side can prove the other wrong with any absolute proof.
both sides have relevant arguments, and frankly both sides are right and wrong so yippie a draw!!!!! shake hands, quit the filed and go and have a beer and be friends cause neither side can win

The theory of evolution holds no sway over my decision to be a Christian-- quite the contrary, if you read Augustine's earlier work, especially The Literal Interpretation of Genesis, he suggested a similar mechanism to Mr. Darwin's original natural selection.

I believe this 'evolution vs. creationism' debate is a false dichotomy. The theory of evolution is an epistemology; a branch of biology, which itself relies on the branch of astronomy and physics to properly put the theory into context, while 'creationism' (whatever that is) is a metaphysical principle, which is more on par with the study of fundamental interactions and quantum theory. Therefore, my opinion is that the reason there's even an argument is a result of a category mistake.

No one should fear Mr. Darwin's [and all modern advances in the biological sciences, and fellow scientists who labor for results] amazing work, unless you hold fundamentalist principles, you may have a few difficulties there.

reply to post by edmc^2


Stephen Hawking: God did not create universe.


At least now maybe you can stop using Hawking as a witness for your stupidity.

reply to post by Xtrozero

Well the fact is we cannot prove anything about the universe. Everything we think we know has ended up being very surface level observations and the closer we look ALL of it ends up totally incomprehensible.

So, you are saying, that Logic, and Science, Cannot be Used to attempt to prove or disprove God?



(Second Line Thanks You.)

-Edrick

Originally posted by Edrick
reply to post by edmc^2

 

Oh, I see that you can dish it out, but you can't take it, can you?


Don't you DARE ignore me...

*PROVE THAT HUMANS WERE INTELLIGENTLY DESIGNED*

And if you quote from *ANY* religious Text... You Lose.

-Edrick

[edit on 4-9-2010 by Edrick]

First off thanks for the Question – it's a good question and I'm happy to answer it.
Apologies if I have not replied to it sooner – too many q to address and missed this one. Was not my intention to ignore it.


So you asked: *PROVE THAT HUMANS WERE INTELLIGENTLY DESIGNED*

A quick and short answer is of course, humans or for that matter the Human Body is/was “ INTELLIGENTLY DESIGNED”. It has all the hallmark of a Unmatched Designer!

Here are the evidence your Honer.

Side Bar note:
Because of the enormous information about the marvels of the Human Body, there's no way to cite them all here – I might get banned. So I'll just provide a brief summary of just a few of research done by the defense. We will provide the evidence from an engineering point of view – to highlight the Intelligence in Design.

Exhibit A) Our Bones:

“Triumphs of Structure and Design”

Why did the book The Body, an advocate of evolution, describe the bones in the way that it does?

Because the bone your Honor -

“supports the body the way a steel framework supports a skyscraper, and it protects its vital organs the way a cast-concrete roof protects a building’s occupants. In filling these structural assignments, the human body solves problems of design and construction familiar to the architect and engineer.” - The Body

As if this alone were not enough, the interior of the bones is like a “mint” where new blood cells, the life of the body, are “coined and issued.”

Another book said this:

“Just as banks build their vaults in the foundations of their buildings so as to deposit their gold reserves in the safety and security of their depths, similarly the body has used the most protected places in the human body, the interior of the bones, to deposit there the coin and gold of the cell state: the blood.” – Man in Structure and Function

No wonder the magazine Today’s Health says:

“The human skeleton represents a masterpiece of engineering design,..”

www.nsbri.org...

Exhibit B) The Ear

“The Ear: Masterpiece of Engineering”

the book Sound and Hearing describes our organ of hearing.
The book adds:

“Yet behind [the outer ear] lie structures of such delicacy that they shame the most skillful craftsman, of such reliable automatic operation that they inspire awe in the most ingenious engineer.”

Just think about this carefully your Honor:

Miniaturized into a space about one square inch (6 square centimeters) is an entire high-fidelity receiving and transmitting system. From the outer ear (which gathers the sound waves) through the middle ear (which converts the sound waves into mechanical movements) to the inner ear (which transforms the mechanical movements into electrical impulses), we see evidence of really sophisticated design.

Exhibit C) The Human Hand:

“Instrument of Instruments”

So said an ancient physician about that which has made possible so many of man’s achievements. echoed such feelings by calling the hand:

Note what the famous Biochemist Isaac Asimov said about the hand.

“ . . . a superlative manipulative organ, incomparably the best thing of the sort in all the realm of life—with four limber fingers and an opposing thumb so that the whole can be used as a delicate pincer or firm grasper, a twister, bender, puller, pusher, and manipulator of piano and typewriter keys.”

Indeed the hand is not only powerful, but strikingly agile. With it we can pound with a hammer yet also pick up a small pin.

Exhibit D) The Brain:

“Most Miraculous Creation in the World”

That is what a leading anthropologist, Loren C. Eiseley, an evolutionist, called our brain back in 1955.

But even today year 2010, with all his increased technology we are is still dumbfounded at what our brain is capable of doing. It has

“10 billion nerve cells, any one of which may connect with as many as 25,000 other nerve cells. The number of interconnections which this adds up to would stagger even an astronomer—and astronomers are used to dealing with astronomical numbers,”

reports one reference work, and it adds:

“A computer sophisticated enough to handle this number of interconnections would have to be big enough to cover the earth.”

Yet all of this is miniaturized into a mass weighing about three pounds (1,360 grams), small enough to fit in your two hands. Fittingly it is called “the most highly organized bit of matter in the universe.”


Going further:

Our brain is capable of something for which no man-made computer has ever had a capacity: creative imagination.

Note this evidence from the experience of composer Ludwig van Beethoven:

When one of his greatest works, his Ninth Symphony, was introduced, the audience broke into “frantic applause,” they loved it so. But Beethoven was not even aware of it! Do you know why?

He was totally deaf! Just think, he “heard” the full richness of the composition first in his own imagination and then set it down in notes, and he never actually heard one tone. What power of creative imagination our brain possesses!

Amazing how the BRAIN works. A mark of true masterpiece design! What an insult imho to say that the brain is a product of 'blind chance' billions of years ago from an “organic soup”.

cont...

...

Is it not obvious that there are examples of superb designing in our body? Should we not be drawn to the same logical conclusion as that reached by an outstanding consultant engineer who struggled for two years designing an “electronic brain”?

He said:

“After facing and solving the many design problems which [the computer] presented, it is completely irrational to me to think that such a device could come into being in any other way than through . . . an intelligent designer. . . . If my computer required a designer, how much more so did that complex . . . machine which is my human body.”

Being in the field of electronics, I can sympathized with the man.

In conclusion your most Honorable:

Could all these examples of design merely have “just happened”?

I present to you a simple statistic from a renowned statistician - George Gallup:

Note what he said:

“I could prove God statistically. Take the human body alone—the chance that all the functions of the individual would just happen is a statistical monstrosity.”

In other words your honor, the chance that all of this could “just happen” without some directive power is, in reality, impossible, “a statistical monstrosity.”

And finally:

I quote the great physicist Lord Kelvin who at the time of his death, “was without dispute the greatest scientific genius in the world,” who reached the same conclusion:

“We are absolutely forced by science to believe with perfect confidence in a Directive Power—in an influence other than physical or dynamical or electrical forces . . . You will be forced by science into a belief in God.”

So we can see convincing evidence that the Human Body was/is Intelligently Designed!

But if it is “Intelligently Designed”, who designed it? Is it Chance according to Evolution or is it Nature according to evolution or is it Chemical reaction according to some posters here?

NO your honor, through
(1) sound scientific logic and

(2) existence of design in the world around us – one can ONLY conclude an Intelligent Entity, a “Directive Power” whose name is YHWH- Jehovah/Yahweh the "Intelligent Designer" / Creator!

For more exacting fully explained information about the Human Body – see Grays Anatomy.

Here's a version of it:
education.yahoo.com...


Side bar Q:

If these great men of science are convinced that Humans – the Human Body was “ INTELLIGENTLY DESIGNED”, then you'll have a very tough time disproving them and the evidence – unless one chooses to ignore reality.

Ty,
edmc2

PS,
Apologies if I somehow offended you from my questionings.

reply to post by edmc^2

Exhibit A) Our Bones

Calcium (Ca2+) plays a pivotal role in the physiology and biochemistry of organisms and the cell. It plays an important role in signal transduction pathways, where it acts as a second messenger, in neurotransmitter release from neurons, contraction of all muscle cell types, and fertilization. Many enzymes require calcium ions as a cofactor; those of the blood-clotting cascade being notable examples. Extracellular calcium is also important for maintaining the potential difference across excitable cell membranes, as well as proper bone formation.
-Wiki

“supports the body the way a steel framework supports a skyscraper, and it protects its vital organs the way a cast-concrete roof protects a building’s occupants. In filling these structural assignments, the human body solves problems of design and construction familiar to the architect and engineer.” - The Body

So.... you quote someone, who said something, and infer a designer....


And you think that this constitutes proof.... How Exactly?


Early evolution of vertebrate skeletal tissues and cellular interactions, and the canalization of skeletal development
Donoghue, P. C. J., Sansom, I. J. and Downs, J. P. 2006. Journal of Experimental Zoology - Part B: Molecular and Developmental Evolution 306B: 278-294

Exhibit B) The Ear

The evolution of mammalian auditory ossicles is one of the most well-documented[1] and important evolutionary events, demonstrating both numerous transitional forms as well as an excellent example of exaptation, the re-purposing of existing structures during evolution.

Exhibit C) The Human Hand

Man... you're going to really make me do this, aren't you?


Evolution of the hand

Exhibit D) The Brain

The Evolution of The Brain

Apologies if I somehow offended you from my questionings.

Evolution Is Logical.

Your Argument is Not.

-Edrick

[edit on 5-9-2010 by Edrick]

reply to post by edmc^2


There is a reason why people have a problem with acknowledging that everything is a very clever design. Even though, every one acknowledges that things do expand and change. They dont grasp the concept of their own understanding of this expansion.

We have observed that the universe is expanding. But! it's not just the universe that is expanding and changing. Everything is.

If everything is expanding and changing, a bell should ring out loud for every one. Because that means before the expansion, everything was more compressed. Right?

Everything that exists, was compressed into a tiny little seed. A seed is a nice way to describe the content of our existence. Everything starts out small. That is a concept we should know about by now.

This seed contains everything that we see and dont see to day. To day we only see the things that have evolved this far in the expansion of the seed.

In the beginning when this seed was created. It was very very tiny, "very compressed". NO life as we know it existed at that time. But everything that is to come is already decided. We are the proof of that. And today it has grown a bit larger since it was first formed.

We are not just a clever design, but we were also meant to be.

EDIT: The seed represents the whole existence of everything that is finite, even the total size of the finite universe that we imagine goes on for ever.

Remember that existence is only finite. It will change/expand. Because it's not infinite.

Jesse's i just described why we have gravity. It is the difference between the finite and the infinite.


If people have problems understanding the concept. Just go and find a seed. Look how small and compressed it is. Put it in the ground and see how it will grow. If you know what kind of seed you have, you will be 100% sure of what will come from it.

If you where to create your own kind of seed. You cant just gather anything you find to create it. It must be specifically put together with the right elements to become what you have in mind. Or to become a seed at all.


Question: Would it take any intelligence to create a seed from scratch? Do any of you think you have what it takes to create one right now?

[edit on 27.06.08 by spy66]

Originally posted by Edrick
So, you are saying, that Logic, and Science, Cannot be Used to attempt to prove or disprove God?

Well you can attempt, but unless we understand the universe it is a moot point.

When I say that all the workings and everything in the universe becomes incomprehensible I don't think people really realize to what extreme level of incomprehensible it actually becomes.

Cheers

[edit on 5-9-2010 by Xtrozero]

A favourite quote of mine:

" I may disagree strongly with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

For all those who believe in "intelligent design"...you are delusional!!

reply to post by Romantic_Rebel


I am curious about how atheism is disproved, as I was under the impression atheism is an absence of belief, or sometimes indifference.

I'm more the an Intelligent Design kinda guy than Creationalist but this is a great topic and thread.

The OP really is onto something and the way he's presented it is new and a great blow against the spiritually bankrupt evolutionists

reply to post by WatchRider


No, it's not a significant blow. It's not new information, it's not a new idea, and no one who accepts evolution will have any difficulty with what has been presented here. No one will reconsider their beliefs because they saw a picture of a lightbulb next to a picture of the sun.