Cannabis, schizophrenia FALSE link

From Wikipedia

"Schizophrenia (pronounced /ˌskɪtsɵˈfrɛniə/ or /ˌskɪtsɵˈfriːniə/) is a mental disorder characterized by abnormalities in the perception or expression of reality. It most commonly manifests as auditory hallucinations, paranoid or bizarre delusions, or disorganized speech and thinking with significant social or occupational dysfunction. Onset of symptoms typically occurs in young adulthood,[1] with around 0.4–0.6%[2][3] of the population affected. Diagnosis is based on the patient's self-reported experiences and observed behavior. No laboratory test for schizophrenia currently exists.[4]"

Ive seen some people associate Cannabis with schizophrenia and of course, a developing person should not ingest any mind/body altering drug for obvious reasons. I won't turn this into a "legalize it" thread, you all know my stance, but this argument is now the"go to" argument for drug warriors. Time to take it apart and see the "reality".

some more from Wikipedia:

"Studies suggest that genetics, early environment, neurobiology, psychological and social processes are important contributory factors; some recreational and prescription drugs appear to cause or worsen symptoms."

My sister is psychotic, due to a mixture of the family genes( woman in the family are predisposed) and "PTSD"...now, I have witnessed her consume cannabis (after the fact) and witnessed ZERO abnormalities. This is contrast to whe, with no drugs involved, I had to pull her off of my father because she had a knife and cut his ear. Days prior she was talking complete nonsense. The episodes were induced with no drugs involved, but stress factors in her life at the time (lost her kids, was abused by her two husbands, and had to move back in with mom and dad, her abusers as a child e.c.t)...she snapped. She now lives dazed by heavy anti-psychotics and as a permanent patient of the mental health system.

Now, that is one example and of course everybody is different. What may not affect a person may affect another drastically.

On schizophrenia.com we can read this..

"he ate a chunk of cannabis resin and collapsed in a nightclub toilet. "When I woke up I heard someone saying: 'It's OK Steve, you can get up now, you're all right'," he recalls. "When I looked around, there was no one there."

What is the problem with this story? Why did he collapse? Was he without oxygen? A psychologist once told me a woman crashed her bike and whacked her head. When she woke up in the hospital she "heard voices" from then on.

What about studies in to the relation?

From www.miller-mccune.com...

"The study’s authors said there is significant complexity in the relationship: Essentially, those who were vulnerable to psychosis were more likely to use cannabis, which in turn could contribute to an increased risk of developing mental illness."

In recovery circles it is referred to as "self medicating". The conflict in studies is obvious, causality cannot be clearly established. What is the latest news anyway? Well, it showed that there is a minimal relationship between "the devils weed" and schizophrenia/psychosis. Very minimal.

www.medicalnewstoday.com...

"The study found it would be necessary to stop 2800 heavy cannabis users in young men and over 5000 heavy cannabis users in young women to prevent a single case of schizophrenia. Among light cannabis users, those numbers rise to over 10,000 young men and nearly 30,000 young women to prevent one case of schizophrenia."


but wait, how many people "get" schizophrenia?

From www.mentalhealth.org.uk...

"Schizophrenia can affect men and women from all countries, cultures, backgrounds and walks of life. About 1 in 100 people will have one episode"

Well now, minimal is an understatement. I think causality can be MOSTLY ruled out. In cases where psychosis or persistent mental problems (rarely) occur, from personal experience, cannabis in particular can "open a can of worms" in you're mind that has been suppressed. I believe Cannabis use in the presence of a psychologist could enhance therapy, again, I say this from experience.

Of course, the mental health drug system can be far more damaging than any variety of cannabis. Just google anti-depressant deaths and you'll have plenty to read. At the age of ten, I was having trouble in school...one day, I made the terrible mistake of telling my mother that I would throw myself in the nearby river if forced to go back to school. I was put in childrens hospital (Boston) for two weeks where I was drugged, at the age of ten, with Zyprexa and later Paxil! Nowadays it is not to be given to those under the age of 18! Since the age of ten, I have lived as a part of this system, only later in my teens did I ever try cannabis and suffered no psychosis or schizophrenia.

I hope this information helps and educates.

This is nothing new, and has always been known to be propaganda. Thank god people are stopping with the gateway drug -argument, since it is even more pathetic and only demonstrates the inability to think logically.

Arguing about these things is however something i feel completely useless. I had the power to do so 10 years ago, in the same way that i had the power to talk about world politics and generally known conspiracies.

Nowadays i don't know many people under 25 who would buy into the war on cannabis, or the "world police" status of USA. Times are changing, but only time will bring forth the change. Arguing with someone is pointless, it can even make him/her close their mind to the truth even more; "i'll show you who is right, and won't even by mistake think logically!!"

reply to post by SmokeandShadow


MJ is a useful drug - banned unfortunately.

The powers that be have banned it - the people have no say, as usual.

This thread will vanish.

Originally posted by above
This is nothing new, and has always been known to be propaganda. Thank god people are stopping with the gateway drug -argument, since it is even more pathetic and only demonstrates the inability to think logically.

Arguing about these things is however something i feel completely useless. I had the power to do so 10 years ago, in the same way that i had the power to talk about world politics and generally known conspiracies.

Nowadays i don't know many people under 25 who would buy into the war on cannabis, or the "world police" status of USA. Times are changing, but only time will bring forth the change. Arguing with someone is pointless, it can even make him/her close their mind to the truth even more; "i'll show you who is right, and won't even by mistake think logically!!"

Oh, I agree time will change the order of things. Of course, I have seen this propaganda spewed by some on ATS, hence the thread. Some people will say the sky is red, but I think it is important to shout blue here and there.

i dont think herb will make you scitzophreninc but i think if you have that kind of problem first of all its not gonna do you any favors. i'v had some stints of paranoia with it but nothing to worry about.

reply to post by danielhanson420


The problem is the MSM and govt will always wheel out the single poor sod who was always going to be predisposed to a psychotic illness, with or without cannabis, to say i smoked one joint and now i'm a raving loon or words to that effect.

His mum will be sitting on her Laura Ashly sofa, saying that he used to be such a nice, quiet, intelligent boy, that always did well in school...and now he's a dribbling wreck.

This does happen, every time the debate looks like rearing up again..without fail.

I'd like to see the amount of families of the children on the TV, being interviewed after their child has been turned into a dribbling loon by having a 'vaccination' of one sort or another..i bet there are thousands more of those types of stories...yet they are considering forcing us to have our kids pumped with that crap...but a natural plant? Ohhh...no.

*Snip*

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[edit on 6/29/2010 by semperfortis]

Originally posted by danielhanson420
i dont think herb will make you scitzophreninc but i think if you have that kind of problem first of all its not gonna do you any favors. i'v had some stints of paranoia with it but nothing to worry about.

Well maybe an acute onset of schizophrenic tendencies for a hour or so will then actually alert you over "there is something wrong with me", and you get the help you need sooner then later.

If it would develop naturally you might get used to the symptoms little by little, and finally don't notice anything wrong with yourself even though you might carry out lengthy conversations with yourself.

The herb does not make you schizophrenic, it might exaggerate symptoms if you have already developed schizophrenia.

I am literally unable to consume cannabis in any way.

Cannabis DOES make me go completely insane.

I've had full blown conversations with myself, God, and Satan (Or so I perceived), had extremely cold sweats, written many fantastical things - I am completely and utterly delusional and incomprehensible with cannabis.

I do not ever have an episode like this. I only feel this way with cannabis and I have done other recreational activities.

Sorry to tell you, but no amount of research you show me will tell me otherwise what I know for myself.

Would I classify what I went through as being schizo? I don't know.. I've never been schizo before.

But it wasn't good.

For example - one night I saw the universe explode into an ocean numbers all perfectly crystallized and repeating EXTREMELY fast and the numbers were white on a black screen - but it was all in my brain, right before my eyes, the explosion in my ears - and the whole thing repeated itself multiple times that night while I tried to function (i.e. - walk to the room, drink some water/milk, watch TV - anything to make it go away). In this particular incident, I remember the explosion sounded just like the sound of a monster being killed in The Legend of Zelda for the regular nintendo - happening RIGHT IN MY SKULL at about 300 decibals.

Over and over and over.

And entire ocean of numbers that wouldn't fit in my house if each number was 1 cubic millimeter...explosions everywhere.

What kind of insanity? I think about things a lot, but there is no excuse for my brain having severe dysfunction everytime I would smoke that stuff.

And everyone is doing -so- fine on that stuff. Suits me fine, though, I'm not jealous...

I can't stand the stuff.

reply to post by revmoofoo


Oh my gosh, your signature is a joke on my previous statement.

Go figure.

In 30 years as a EMT i never saw a link between Schizophrenia and Cannabis only use.

I did see a link with meth and '___' use and many of those also used Cannabis.

But there was also a big link between diabetes and Schizophrenia.

Originally posted by ANNED
In 30 years as a EMT i never saw a link between Schizophrenia and Cannabis only use.

I did see a link with meth and '___' use and many of those also used Cannabis.

But there was also a big link between diabetes and Schizophrenia.

No offense, but being an EMT does not make you a cannabis user.

Nor does it make you an expert on schizophrenia and its many variations.

And the link between diabetes and schizo-ism MIGHT possibly be due to the fact that a lot of people with diabetes just so happen to be angry, and/or obese, and/or handicapped.

reply to post by TarzanBeta


People can indeed "freak out" if they are inexperienced with it or smoke to much of a strong variety. There is also the matter of strains which, depending on the given strain, the effect will be vastly different. Sorry to hear you had a bad experience, it sounds like you "overdosed" (there is no lethal over dose, but certainly too much is too much).

Unfortunately, some people would use you're statements to maintain prohibition and keep locking innocent, non-violent people up in jails and forced "rehab" (coffee and cigarette addiction centers).

reply to post by revmoofoo

Marijuana and the Hemp plant in general was put on this Earth to enrich our lives, not so that they could be banned. I believe that TPTB only banned it because if everyone smoked it, they'd have less control over us

Oh, lord of the land, oh wiser knower of much knowledge and thinger of things...

How is it that you know why nature brings about what it brings?

And how is it that you think that those who are utterly stoned and susceptible to bad movies, poor comedies, and food advertising are more difficult to control?

I seek enlightenment.

Originally posted by TarzanBeta
reply to post by revmoofoo

 

Marijuana and the Hemp plant in general was put on this Earth to enrich our lives, not so that they could be banned. I believe that TPTB only banned it because if everyone smoked it, they'd have less control over us

Oh, lord of the land, oh wiser knower of much knowledge and thinger of things...

How is it that you know why nature brings about what it brings?

And how is it that you think that those who are utterly stoned and susceptible to bad movies, poor comedies, and food advertising are more difficult to control?

I seek enlightenment.

Oh please, keep the stereotypes out of here. For every giggling stoner there are two or more responsible, productive individuals. Really now. That rhetoric is old and spits in the face of every good thing it can do.

and yes, anti-establishment sentiments of often expressed among smokers, they just happen to be as powerless as everyone else. Some kid munching on cheetos and playing video games doesn't take of away from its uses, it just helps maintain "prohibition perception".

[edit on 29-6-2010 by SmokeandShadow]

This is amazing!

I posted about cannabis and was taken out - how come this thread is still working?

But while I am here - the reason the government wants to take over those plants is because they have amazing powers and the government wants the money.

Originally posted by SmokeandShadow
reply to post by TarzanBeta

 

People can indeed "freak out" if they are inexperienced with it or smoke to much of a strong variety. There is also the matter of strains which, depending on the given strain, the effect will be vastly different. Sorry to hear you had a bad experience, it sounds like you "overdosed" (there is no lethal over dose, but certainly too much is too much).

Unfortunately, some people would use you're statements to maintain prohibition and keep locking innocent, non-violent people up in jails and forced "rehab" (coffee and cigarette addiction centers).

Yeah... but no.

I've smoked myself straight many times. It was random times that these events were triggered. They just became more prevalent and I got tired of abusing myself knowing full well what the results might be.

I had given you no reason to believe that I was inexperienced so it is unwise to assume that I am.

What I personally believe to be true is that people who have no moral standard or conscience as to their ability to function perfectly without mental masturbation and to be happy with their circumstances are the same who suffer no guilt as to their own personal indenture to such things even as a plant!...

But I would have no clue about that; I'm inexperienced.

As far as people going to rehab for this stuff... You do realize that people have a right to refuse rehabilitation and that it is not illegal to possess cannabis so long as you are not a servant of the corporate UNITED STATES right? There is no common law stating that the possession of any plant is unlawful.

The irony is just so dang high-larious.

Cannabis has been used for thousands of years and its effects were widely described as putting you close to God. If people were going 'crazy' left, right and centre I think somebody would have noticed well before the 21st century.

I do however, believe that it is essentially a spiritual drug and can - depending on the circumstances - have serious negative effects. In 1994 when I was smoking with a small group of people, had a rather curious experience. My 'friends' that I were smoking with were making my life miserable by bullying me and I was at a very low ebb. I was lying in my bed one night and next to me I suddenly heard a rather aggressive man shouting in Haitian dialect at me. This went on for at most a couple of minutes while I just lay there saying 'this isn't real, this isn't real'. Something seemed to protect me at the time and the memory of it ten years later seemed scarier than it did at the time.

reply to post by SmokeandShadow


The rhetoric I used defines most of the cannabis users...

And responsible is always in one's own mind. Who is to judge who is responsible?

I feel it is irresponsible for people to be making a legal fuss over getting cannabis legalized because it is not unlawful to carry a PLANT! It is only illegal if you serve the corporations.

And I tell you that most cannabis users cannot possibly be that intelligent because they simply don't know that fun little fact.

reply to post by TarzanBeta


It can induce spiritual experiences. If your not ready for them you will feel like your going mad. Many of the supposedly skitz type symptoms are an increased mulitdimensional perception opening up randomly and uncontrollably, it can be rather freightening for an initiate to have such experiences for the first time, most panic thus making it much worse.

Education about it is the only way. There will not be proper education about safe usage while it remains illicit.

The threat to TPTB is the mind expansion and the de-programming on a mass scale. You wont get drunks talking much about topics like these on ATS compared to a group of stoners where such conspiracies a much more easily explored in conversation due to the infinite possibility type mood the drug can lift you into, out from the 9-5 drone state they want you in, neither tabacco or alcohol bring you out of that narrow sheep/hamster wheel state of perception and into the infinite cosmos/universe eyes wide open state the way the green does. Put short, marijuana is a potential catalyst for awakening.

[edit on 29-6-2010 by polarwarrior]