Have the Jews/Israel ever helped anyone?

lately they have really been helping others to see how anti-peace they are! or anti-humanitarian. whichever you prefer.

Originally posted by Eliad
Posters have repeatedly given proof of israeli and jewish contribution to the world in this thread, and yet people seem to be discussing it still...

Why?

Why not? There is always room for more. Do you have a problem with discussions that make you uncomfortable? Perhaps you think this topic should be deleted because it's "hate speech"?

[edit on 9-6-2010 by belial259]

Originally posted by virgom129
Have the Jews/Israel ever helped anyone but themselves?

I ask because I can not remember a single time.

I'm Australian and we have sent troops to WW1,WW11,Vietnam,Iraq,Afghanistan and countless other local troublespots. All fights that really didn't affect Australia that much at the time but we fought for other countries freedom.

My question is simple..

Has Israel/Jews every done the same???

"The Jews."

Really? "The Jews" work as a team? I assume you believe so, since you include WW1 and WW2, both of which occurred before Israel's founding.

REALLY.

Have you seen the Star of David tombstones at war cemeteries? Do those count as "The Jews?"

And do you REALLY think it would be a good idea for Israel to participate in an Arab country's conflict?

And besides...they pretty much have their hands full just continuing to exist. Deploy the military to another country and you have just handed Syria a perfect time to attack.

Please think before you post.

Originally posted by charlie_the_loafer
reply to post by PuterMan

 

I know that it took you more than half hour to come up with words for those initials...

next time make an effort and read all posts but this may prove to be way over your head

I am sick and tired of uneducated children trying to make points and always bringing the same arguments "let the zionists kill in the name of god and the bible " " if you don't agree with our killing you're anti-semitic or jew hater or "
racists"

I suggest of all the zionists in here be put in straight jackets and institutionalized.

What a curious reaction! Did I say anywhere in my post that I was for or against the 'Zionists' as you put it? No, I did not. Somehow I think that if you strained very hard to read my post you might just make out that perhaps I am not on the side of the Zionists. I did read all the posts

The two quoted remarks you make are in contention by the way.

If you a calling me an uneducated child them I would appraise you of the following:

• I am no child - I am 62 years old.
  
• My father was a Church of England priest and I studied the Holy Land in great depth.
  
• My Father was also a very close relative of Henry St John Thackeray who translated Josephus from the Greek. Josephus I am sure you know wrote a history of the Jews. We had a full original set of Josephus.
  
• I was in both Jordan and Israel before the 6 days war - literally just before it and I have seen both sides at least at that time.
  
• If you look at my latest threads and posts it should be quite clear to you where I stand.
  

I suspect that an apology on your part will not be forth coming, but never mind, I will forgive your little outburst as you are obviously extremely frustrated and finding it difficult to deal with it.

[edit on 9/6/2010 by PuterMan]

Originally posted by Hulk Hogan

Originally posted by SevenThunders
It's amazing the anti-semitic trash that is flooding over ATS these days. Most of you should be ashamed of yourselves, but then I have to remind myself that hatred of the jews is a built in satanic response for those who are controled by evil and are on their way to hell. It was prophesied in the Bible that the whole world will hate Israel and be destroyed because of their unjust persecution of Israel.

with attitudes like this, no wonder jews get a bad wrap

Sorry, but Jews don't believe in hell or Satan - at least, not in the traditional sense. And the "prophecy" is in the New Testament.

So, I'm going to go with "Christian with a strong belief in the End Times" on this one. But thanks for your contribution to the bashing of Semites on ATS.

Originally posted by belial259

Why not? There is always room for more. Do you have a problem with discussions that make you uncomfortable? Perhaps you think this topic should be deleted because it's "hate speech"?

[edit on 9-6-2010 by belial259]

Room for more what? A question was asked "have the israelis and the jews done anything for anyone other then themselves?".
Do you understand the meaning of this question?
Afterwards the question was answered several times and it has been proven without a doubt that israel and the jews have helped the world in many ways.
Does that make you uncomfortable? Knowing the the israelis are more than just the brutal killers you think them to be? Does it make you uncomfortable when they don't fit your image of the jewish people?
Do you feel bad when being proven wrong time and time again in your bias against israel?
In your inability to even start to comprehend the complexity of the situation here?
Would it be fair to say that you have taken a side and are not willing to change your opinions, or even consider that israel might have some points that they are right, no matter what evidence you are presented with, or what argument you are told?

Moreover, my friend, should hate speech NOT be deleted? Or is this question not rhetorical? Does the OP truly seek an answer?

Your defense of a question so immoral, filled with such pure bias and hate, and a discussion that follows that lets voice and calls out to those (not all posters, but some) with no concept of a civil debate just proves your inability to argue your points in a civil, polite, and respectful manner. It is proof of ignorance in matters regarding to the subject, immaturity, lack of integrity- if you had anything meaningful to say, you would not have chosen this discussion to say it, this discussion is disrespectful, and only serves to shame those who take part in it, as for integrity- a real seeker of the truth, a real humanitarian would always look for the truth in a story, would always look at two sides, never just one, and would never use a debate in order to spread simple minded cusses and disrespect at its adversaries.

I am very comfortable with any discussion that might arise, as I know I am well informed and can account for anything I am presented with. If I can not account for something, then I have no problem what so ever to take it under consideration, and I have not once, nor twice condemned an israeli action.
My friend, I suggest you do the same.

What worries me isn't the lack of support for israel, the bias against it, or even the hate of israel.
What worries me is the willingness to adopt these concepts and perspectives without taking into consideration anything that might convince otherwise.
Is the willingness to follow such a call.
Is turning a blind eye to a topic so full of hate and empty of meaning, simply because it fits your agenda.

I would never condone a topic asking what have the Palestinians ever done for the good of mankind, or the turkish for that matter, or the syrians, or the irani.
Shame on you for hinting otherwise.
Shame on you for supporting such an unworthy, empty topic.

With best regards,
Eliad.

P.S- I am still waiting for your replies on the turkish flotilla thread, you seem to have run out of things to say.

reply to post by letscit


You can't judge someone's peaceful intentions in a land of lawlessness. In lands like those, you can only count their worth on how modern and civilized they are. Israel wins that.

Originally posted by virgom129
reply to post by Hulk Hogan

 

It's amazing the anti-semitic trash that is flooding over ATS these days. Most of you should be ashamed of yourselves, but then I have to remind myself that hatred of the jews is a built in satanic response for those who are controled by evil and are on their way to hell. It was prophesied in the Bible that the whole world will hate Israel and be destroyed because of their unjust persecution of Israel.

Well reading his post in context, he is saying the "anti-semitic trash" is actually doing Gods work... Not sure why he is arguing in that case

The Arabs are Semites.

I think you will find that people would not have a problem with Israel if it behaved with a bit more compassion towards it's neighbours.

Yes the 'Jews' have helped people in the past, but currently the Zionists, and by that I mean the modern day Zionists, are hell bent on causing conflict. I do not lump all Israelis together as Zionists since they are not.

To Charlie_the_loafer

i noticed there were some british members among you , how many of you know that israel with their underground army fought against the british when they felt that the territory allocated to them wasn't big enough and wanted to extend taking more of palestine?

Yes actually, some of us do our research properly, and some of us are not quite as stupid as you seem to wish to make out.

By the way partially as a response to you other attack on me I just checked and I have getting on toward 100 documents of the subject of the Jews, Jewish History and Zionism, so yes I think that I do know what I am talking about for the most part.

[edit on 9/6/2010 by PuterMan]

reply to post by Eliad


The original question was perfectly reasonable and has been answered and I have no doubt that some people have been enlightened by the answers.

So why the persecution complex?

Edit to say:

I would never condone a topic asking what have the Palestinians ever done for the good of mankind, or the turkish for that matter, or the syrians, or the irani.
Shame on you for hinting otherwise.

Actually most of them have done a lot for humankind, and there is absolutely no harm in seeking enlightenment on a subject such as that. I would question that in fact it could not have just been researched, and did not require a thread, but that is the way of things.

Shame on you also for thinking that the OP was hinting otherwise.

[edit on 9/6/2010 by PuterMan]

reply to post by virgom129


Uh Israel has been in a fight for its survival since its inception, they have the entire Islamic population against them and in the last decade or so the political Left, whom doesn't realize it but would be the first to go when the moslems fulfil their destiny and establish a worldwide caliphate.

reply to post by virgom129


Actually a nation only has a responsibility to protect it's Citizens, yes it would be great if everyone helped, but if everyone helped without conditions we wouldn't need any wars to begin with.

And on another note, Israel does not have a military set for deployment, their military is the Israeli Defense Force. That middle word is the key. Defense, not Attack, not Army.

reply to post by belial259


Agreed and furthermore hate speech is still free speech people should be exposed to things and thinking that puts them outside their comfort zones its part of the ugly truth

I can only comment on WW 2, an Israeli pilot in the RAF died during the 'battle of Britain' and a unit known as 'Popskis private army' operated in north Africa on the allied side, I believe they were all Jews. they are a hard lot, I must admit.

Originally posted by Eagleheart56
reply to post by virgom129

 

Uh Israel has been in a fight for its survival since its inception, they have the entire Islamic population against them and in the last decade or so the political Left, whom doesn't realize it but would be the first to go when the moslems fulfil their destiny and establish a worldwide caliphate.

The destiny of the Muslims to create a global Caliphate is in fact stemming from the same idea as the Chosen People of the Israelites, where again there would be one religion. The Muslims feel that they are the chosen of Allah.

Since both the Yahweh and Allah, and the God of the Christians are one and the same, and the Arabs are of the same root as the Jews, really there should not be a problem!

reply to post by PuterMan

Originally posted by PuterMan

The original question was perfectly reasonable and has been answered and I have no doubt that some people have been enlightened by the answers.

So why the persecution complex?

The question in itself is quite reasonable. Asking if israel had done anything for the world is a simple enough question. But the way it was asked:

Have the Jews/Israel ever helped anyone?

Have the Jews/Israel ever helped anyone but themselves?

I would understand if it were only israel, as some people are not very well informed. Most people I've spoken to on the matter don't even know where and what size israel is.
But asking have the jews done anything for anyone? And then adding but themselves?
This suggests that the israeli and jewish people are only concerned with themselves does it not? The implications are unpleasant. The question itself, I fear, was not written as a simple inquiry.
I understand that you, sir, are 62 years old. If so then you're probably aware of that as well.
That being said, I did not have any problem with the question itself, and if you haven't noticed I gave a large 2 post answers that covers everything the israelis and jews have done for the world, both in the fields of wars and the fields of science and arts.
It is only after seeing that the original question draws in a crowd of people whose answers are- No, even after the elaborate answers given by many posters, at the same time rose short off topic defaming and slanderous and mostly subjective and offensive comments on israel, when the simple question was- what has it done for the world.
It is then when I asked the question- Why? The question had been answered, what more is there to discuss? Why bring these debates here, when there are so many other threads. Why not give israel the credit that it's due for the things that it's done? Regardless of your opinions, surely the answers should have been satisfactory, should they not?
The reply was something in the lines of- No matter what the topic is, if israel is involved there is no reason we shouldn't slander it, do not try and shut us up, this is not hate, this is not out of line, these are legitimate answers to the question at hand.
When in fact this is way off topic, and I believe that's against forum rules (I may be mistaken).
In anyway I disagreed, that is all. Surely you can relate. This has nothing to do with persecution complex.

Actually most of them have done a lot for humankind, and there is absolutely no harm in seeking enlightenment on a subject such as that. I would question that in fact it could not have just been researched, and did not require a thread, but that is the way of things.

You misunderstand. It is clear to me that they indeed have done something for others and not just themselves, it is pretty obvious, and I would never question it, out of respect for fellow human beings, out of respect to fellow nations, and out of self respect, and respect to my intelligence.
The question would have never popped in to my mind, and would have never come out of my mouth.
That is what I meant.

Shame on you also for thinking that the OP was hinting otherwise.

If I am mistaken, then you're right, shame on me for assuming that.
But you seem to be wise enough to understand that this is hardly the case.
Either that, or a very bad choice of words by the OP.

Thank you for the intelligent response.
Take care.
Eliad.

reply to post by Brotherman

Originally posted by Brotherman

Agreed and furthermore hate speech is still free speech people should be exposed to things and thinking that puts them outside their comfort zones its part of the ugly truth

Oh, believe me, unintelligent anti israeli talk puts me exactly in my comfort zone.
My comfort zone of kick-ass debating.

reply to post by Eliad


haha thats the spirit, I had done a paper awhile back in school for a geo politcal class and i did an essay in response to a book called the Israel lobby and had to give an oral presentation on it as well i didnt get but 3 minutes into my introduction of the book and was already getting bombarded with how Im anti semetic im a nazi and all kinds of other stuff i was like damn cant even talk about the views expressed in the book that werent my own and get flamed none the less the professor didnt let me finish i used my 15 minute window basically trying to reinforce the fact im responding to a book strange thing is it wasnt a debate it was supposed to be a presentation. but anyways in response to posts like this i find it seldom that it has to be a country that has to benefiet mankind and our planet why not place a post saying what has Haiti ever done to make the world a better place but i am sure their are Haitians that have benefeited society so I like to sit back and watch these kinds of posts to see how it unfolds

reply to post by Eliad


No, I do understand where you are coming from. I suppose that where I try not to be too contentious it can come across wrong.

Where you answered

You misunderstand. It is clear to me that they indeed have done something for others and not just themselves,...

I was in fact questioning that the OP's question needed to be asked. Simple research could have answered it.

In some ways I am quite glad that it was asked since as I alluded some people will have been enlightened and may have had their view altered.

There is a big gap in comprehension out there and no distinction is made between the old Zionists, the new Zionists, the Jews and the Israelis.

There are many Jews, some are Israelis, but not all of those are the new Zionists by any means, and of course some Israelis are Muslims.

It is impossible to deny that Israel has an agenda, but like the United States who also have an agenda, the agenda is not necessarily one of the peoples choosing. Should we tar all Americans with the oil grabbing brush just because that is the agenda of their government?

Labels are bandied with little of no understanding of what they actually mean, and this is a failing of both camps, and of things in the world generally.

There are good and bad people in all walks of life, no matter what their race, creed or culture.

[edit on 9/6/2010 by PuterMan]

reply to post by PuterMan

Originally posted by PuterMan

The destiny of the Muslims to create a global Caliphate is in fact stemming from the same idea as the Chosen People of the Israelites, where again there would be one religion. The Muslims feel that they are the chosen of Allah.

Since both the Yahweh and Allah, and the God of the Christians are one and the same, and the Arabs are of the same root as the Jews, really there should not be a problem!

lol true that.
I myself am an arab, my grandparents are from syria and turkey, many other israelis are also arab in origin, as I'm sure you must know.
Also my current girlfriend is an arab israeli (it just happened somehow, I guess love has no bounds), so maybe there's hope yet.
So you can probably appreciate the complexities of this place.

Most of what you said is correct, the difference is most extremists interpret it as having to take over the world, creating a united muslim kingdom by all means, and that everyone who's not muslim is an infidel (according to the quran). And you know what happens to infidels...
And on the other hand judism is not even missionary, it is actually very hard to become a jew, so there's no danger of jews ever trying to overrun the world.
Also I should note that while islam if similar to judism in some ways, the two religions are nothing alike.

reply to post by Eliad

Also I should note that while islam if similar to judism in some ways, the two religions are nothing alike

Oh believe me I do know that. I find the Quran very difficult reading for many reasons!