Why do you believe that aliens exist and that they are extraterrestrials?

while there is no evidence aliens exist, there is no evidence they do not exist.
until humans have the technology to get high quality pictures of EVERY INCH of the universe, there will still be the possilibity of extraterrestrial life.

Originally posted by Orkojoker
I wouldn't say I "believe" that UFO's are piloted by ETs, but that it is a reasonable hypothesis based on the content of UFO reports. One of the common characteristics reported is that the objects seem to display intelligent control. Another is that they often seem, based on their appearance and maneuverability, to be the product of a technology in advance of our own.

So, if they are intelligently controlled and represent an advanced technology but are not ours, then they must be someone else's. But whose? We don't really know of any other intelligent beings on our own planet who might be responsible for UFOs. It seems reasonable to speculate, because there are other planets out there, and because we know intelligent life is capable of arising on planets, that the intelligence behind some UFOs might originate on some planet other than Earth.

Where they come from is really beside the point. More relevant is the likelihood that we are dealing with a non-human intelligence, regardless of its origin.

Of course, there are other hypotheses to consider. Maybe there is another intelligent species somehow living on Earth undetected (Mac Tonnies' "cryptoterrestrials"). The UFOs could even be made entirely by humans, though as Richard Dolan points out, for a group to have secretly developed technology so far in advance of that known to the rest of mankind would amount essentially to a "breakaway civilization." It would be as if a small group of ancient Greeks somehow secretly developed jet aircraft.

All of these ideas have problems and questions that would have to be addressed. For example, if there is another advanced intelligent species that has been living alongside us on Earth all along (Tonnies' idea), how have they managed to stay hidden? And why? The ET hypothesis is not free of problems itself, but neither is it unreasonable or illogical.

There is no irrefutible proof one way or the other. Once you accept that UFOs are real, as the OP reportedly has, the rest is guessing and speculating about what makes the most sense while trying to keep an open mind.

I would be interested to hear what the OP thinks is behind the phenomenon, seeing as how he "believes" in UFOs (the existence of which, by the way, has in no way been "proven" irrefutibly; in fact, it's refuted all the time.)

took the words out of my mouth a very reasonable and well written reply.

Originally posted by randolrs1
...
1. Man assumed that his planet was flat and the center of the universe.

2. Man later assumed that the sun was the center of the universe.

3. Man is the only intelligent life in the universe....

The only problem with your argument is that most average people DO IN FACT believe that extraterrestrial intelligent life exists -- and definitely the vast majority of scientists believe in life elsewhere in the universe. Therefore, point number 3 does not really belong in the same class as point 1 and point 2.

And it's not just a recent development that the common person believed in ET. Belief in ETs have been part of our popular culture for many years now. It was not uncommon during Victorian times to believe in "Moon Men" inhabiting our Moon.

However, even though a majority of average people and a vast majority of scientists (such as Stephen Hawking, Carl Sagan, and others) believe in intelligent ET life THAT'S NOT THE SAME as saying that those ETs are visiting the Earth in spaceships. The universe is a big place -- ET may be out there, but our paths may not have ever crossed.

the Shrike:

Have you read the book "Alien Encounters"? It is 197 pages, and someone has placed it online here:




www.bibliotecapleyades.net...


From the introduction:

"This book may prove to be one of the most disturbing books you will
read in a long while, but it may also be one of the most critical"









[edit on 22-5-2010 by manta78]

Hi
I’m glad you asked this question --- it’s encouraged me to re-evaluate why I believe ET’s exist.

I agree as well that the belief in ET is in fact a belief system --- but to be fair so too is pretty much everything we hold to be true. (imho)

Anyways for what it’s worth I belief that ET’s exist for basically 3 main reasons:

1. The Universe is just so bloody big...billions of stars, millions of galaxies, yada yada... it just doesn’t make any sense to me that earth would be the only place for life to evolve.

2. All the “eye-witness” reports of ET contact ... and the whistleblowers ... and the ancient alien research ... and the past life research.... and the really good crop circles and the mars and moon research. I’m not saying that there isn’t a healthy dose of B.S. mixed in with these reports...in fact I think that 99.999 percent is either well-intentioned or deliberate hogwash. But if even one case is true....

3. My 3rd reason is similar to my first point --- with all of the new consciousness experiments and the incredible theories in physics --- I’m reminded again about how massive and mysterious our Universe is. The idea that there may be parallel worlds or an infinite amount worlds or that our own thoughts can determine how our reality manifests...are concepts that make me wee myself a little a bit. So with all that we don’t know --- it would be silly to disregard the possibly of ET --- imho, the sheer size and wonder of our Universe actually makes it more likely that ET really is out there. Or already here...lol

Originally posted by manta78
the Shrike:

Have you read the book "Alien Encounters"? It is 197 pages, and someone has placed it online here:




www.bibliotecapleyades.net...


From the introduction:

"This book may prove to be one of the most disturbing books you will
read in a long while, but it may also be one of the most critical"









[edit on 22-5-2010 by manta78]

somewhat of a flamboyant statement to make, but it's still pretty nice to be to find free reading material.

Thanks for providing the link dude.

Because they told me so.

Originally posted by The ShrikeWhich brings us back to my question: "Why do you believe that aliens exist and that they are extraterrestrials?" What evidence do you base it on? What did you see or hear or read that you considered irrefutable evidence? As I stated, I don't think such evidence exists so it has to result from a belief system. You believe without evidence.

This is an extremely simple question to answer and the reply does not rely on evidence but on deduction.
UFO's exist, you admitted to that yourself. UFO's cannot be from this planet since no one has the technology or the capability to design those things, and if someone had it at some primitive stage of development (see: electrogravitics etc) there is no way UFO's could be "mass produced" in such a manner they apparently are and still be kept a secret on an exclusive research and development basis in the black.
Consequently, the only possibility remaining is that if UFO's do exist, they are extraterrestrial, i.e "alien".

In other words, "belief in ET" is not a belief system either. It's a conclusion resulting from simple logical reasoning.

[edit on 22-5-2010 by Tussilago]

reply to post by Orkojoker

I would be interested to hear what the OP thinks is behind the phenomenon, seeing as how he "believes" in UFOs (the existence of which, by the way, has in no way been "proven" irrefutibly; in fact, it's refuted all the time.)

I have no idea or concept as to what is "behind" the phenomenon. Also, I do not "believe" in UFOs, I accept UFOs. Perhaps there is no irrefutable evidence since in my opinion I don't accept tales of UFOs crashes from which a piece has been recovered. Therefore, a whole UFO is the only evidence that could be convincing to those who doubt their existence. Frankly, even though I'm a skeptic (I don't accept hearsay, I need evidence of whatever is being claimed which is a natural mental state, compared to a believer who has been mentally conditioned to NOT demand evidence), I am at a loss to explain hard-line skeptics such as Robert Sheaffer who is ignoring millions of photos/films/videos from all sources especially NASA!

Originally posted by The Shrike
reply to post by Orkojoker

 

I would be interested to hear what the OP thinks is behind the phenomenon, seeing as how he "believes" in UFOs (the existence of which, by the way, has in no way been "proven" irrefutibly; in fact, it's refuted all the time.)

I have no idea or concept as to what is "behind" the phenomenon. Also, I do not "believe" in UFOs, I accept UFOs. Perhaps there is no irrefutable evidence since in my opinion I don't accept tales of UFOs crashes from which a piece has been recovered. Therefore, a whole UFO is the only evidence that could be convincing to those who doubt their existence. Frankly, even though I'm a skeptic (I don't accept hearsay, I need evidence of whatever is being claimed which is a natural mental state, compared to a believer who has been mentally conditioned to NOT demand evidence), I am at a loss to explain hard-line skeptics such as Robert Sheaffer who is ignoring millions of photos/films/videos from all sources especially NASA!

What do you consider to be the difference between "believing" that UFOs exist and "accepting" that UFO's exist? Are you just splitting semantic hairs with that distinction?

You also concede that you "accept" UFOs despite there being no irrefutible evidence for their existence, but you then go on to say that you "need evidence of whatever is being claimed." Your reasoning seems to be a little muddled/inconsistent.

And do you really have no thoughts on what UFOs might be? I'd like to hear an explanation of what you are talking about when you use the term UFO. If we're talking about the same phenomenon, you'd have to admit that some of them appear to be solid objects under intelligent control. That fact alone should permit a little bit of speculation. You can speculate and still call yourself a skeptic if that's the image you're hoping to foster. I promise not to accuse you of being a "believer."

I'd like to add there's no inherent stigma or whatever as far as UFO believers. Whatever you call yourself, there's really nothing wrong with having an open mind, it doesn't mean believing in all the weird stuff out there but not dismissing them out of hand due to subjective/confirmation bias.

OP: Seeing is believing.

reply to post by The Shrike

Though your logic regarding what is required to make something qualify as "real" or "true" may be flawed, I find that when multiple and diverse sources of information all agree to certain basic facts, the chances that those facts are true are quite good:
1) Sacred writings from diverse cultures translated by multiple scholars all speak of visits to earth of beings with extraordinary powers who identify themselves as from some other planet or star.
2) Artifacts of ancient origin, per accepted archeological practice, that describe various astronomical events, scientific understandings, and similar knowledge supposedly only discovered in relatively modern times. It had to come from somewhere.
3) Persistent and widely varied personal accounts from people who have been willing to identify themselves and have their stories published that they have been in personal or mental contact with beings who identified themselves as from other planets or stars.
4) Persistent stories from government and ex-government persons that there have been ongoing programs in the U.S. and probably many other countries to deal with extraterrestrial contacts.
5) Discovery through modern techniques designed to recover ancient memories that extraterrestrial civilizations have existed and been active in this galaxy and elsewhere for millions of years.

Taken together, this is a phenomenon that we ignore at our peril. I accept, in broad terms, the facts of the situation as outlined by many different researchers in this field: That extraterrestrial civilizations have existed for long periods of time and have been involved with earth on and off for long periods of time. That they are currently involved with us to some extent. That we, as beings, have been involved with some of these same, or similar civilizations in our own pasts and that our own experience is part of a larger experience which includes a lot of things that happened in places and times far from now and far from earth.


[edit on 23-5-2010 by l_e_cox]

"Why do you believe that aliens exist and that they are extraterrestrials?" What evidence do you base it on?"

If you are asking why do we believe they are extraterrestrial that is a good question. You are right in saying there has not been concrete proof that they are from outer space.

When discussing UFO's and aliens many people don't cover the possibility that these beings could be from other dimensions. When people make statements such as 'it would take them light years to travel here' or 'why would they bother coming all the way to earth' they haven't considered the possibility that 'they' might already be here but they are just not perceptible to most people in most circumstances.

When people dismiss 'alien abduction' as fantasy and say there is hardly any physical evidence maybe it's because these beings are interdimensional and sometimes we are able to cross over into there world on occasion, especially if they force us into their world for whatever reason.

There is evidence to suggest that the human brain has the means to access these 'other dimensions' in certain states and shamanism, faeries, gods and demons and ET's all link together in our experience of 'aliens'.

A number of writers have touched on this theory. A couple of good books to read are 'Passport to Magonia' by Jaques Vallee , 'Supernatural' by Graham Hancock and ''___' the spirit molecule' by Rick Strassman.

I do actually think that some UFO's/aliens are ET in nature but some of them could be explained by an interdimensional, 'innerspace' type theory. A one size fits all, blanket explanation for everything doesn't fit IMO.

Originally posted by DrHammondStoat
A one size fits all, blanket explanation for everything doesn't fit IMO.

I think i'm talking about something else here but I think we agree on this point, two phenomena could exist and be mutually exclusive of one another.

Even though sentient beings in another dimension may exist. It's also possible that other extraterrestrial life in other exists too, but this assertion is more supported by mathematicians and physicists such as Stephen Hawking based on calculating the number of known star systems and galaxies out in the universe.

Of course it's all speculation. Fact is current science cannot even determine how to reproduce alien propulsion systems,, let alone determine the origin of an alien species.

The only way to know currently is through the information they relay, and of course you'll never know if they are lying or not.

[edit on 23-5-2010 by redrezo]

I know they exist but I don't believe they're extraterrestrials. But they're definitely there. Maybe in the room beside me right now and I'm totally unaware...?

When someone has an experience and then the scoffers come out and say-

"why does this fool think that aliens from another planet would travel all those light years across space just to see them?"

-l'm the first to laugh. Not at the person who's had the experience but at the scoffers who really thinks they don't exist. How wrong they are.

[edit on 23-5-2010 by wigit]

Originally posted by redrezo
Of course it's all speculation. Fact is current science cannot even determine how to reproduce alien propulsion systems,, let alone determine the origin of an alien species.

The only way to know currently is through the information they relay, and of course you'll never know if they are lying or not.

So evidence to support the ET/interdimensional visitation 'belief' will come when we take the information that 'contactees' have provided and actually test/develop those systems for ourselves. At that point the possibility that non-human visitation has occured will be much stronger. Then, when we actually go to their neck of the woods and take samples, explore their environment, make limited contact, etc we will have proof that it is real.

Hmmm, think about that for a minute. WE develop the systems/techniques and go to other places to collect data and do experiments... Flip the script. Does that sound familiar to what 'contactees'/'abductees' experience?

Originally posted by Orkojoker

Originally posted by The Shrike
reply to post by Orkojoker

 

[quoteWhat do you consider to be the difference between "believing" that UFOs exist and "accepting" that UFO's exist? Are you just splitting semantic hairs with that distinction?

When a child is warned by a parent or other authority figure not to put their hand on a hot stove or they will get burned they obey and eventually believe it to be true. When the child tests the water, so to speak, and touches the hot stove and gets burned, then they will accept that getting burned is true. I never believed UFOs were real, it was more of a curiosity. Then when I had my multiple sightings, nay after the first one, I accepted them as being real.

You also concede that you "accept" UFOs despite there being no irrefutible evidence for their existence, but you then go on to say that you "need evidence of whatever is being claimed." Your reasoning seems to be a little muddled/inconsistent.

I got "burned"! My experiences is my evidence.

And do you really have no thoughts on what UFOs might be?

None. What good is having thoughts on something that is beyond thinking. Thinking should result in possible answers. No answer is adequate.

I'd like to hear an explanation of what you are talking about when you use the term UFO. If we're talking about the same phenomenon, you'd have to admit that some of them appear to be solid objects under intelligent control. That fact alone should permit a little bit of speculation. You can speculate and still call yourself a skeptic if that's the image you're hoping to foster. I promise not to accuse you of being a "believer."

Do you know what UFOs are? I doubt it. Therefore an explanation from me is useless. But this is as good as I can concoct: UFOs are unknown objects that are mostly reported and videotaped while in the air. We have no concept as to what they may be. Being in the air automatically makes them some kind of craft but that's not a certainty. We don't know where they're from or where they go. When they dematerialize, we have no idea where it went. We don't know if what we see contains beings or automatons or they're remote controlled. That last one means that if they're UAV, someone or something must be somewhere controlling. The best word to describe what we know about UFOs is: nothing.

Originally posted by redrezo
I'd like to add there's no inherent stigma or whatever as far as UFO believers. Whatever you call yourself, there's really nothing wrong with having an open mind, it doesn't mean believing in all the weird stuff out there but not dismissing them out of hand due to subjective/confirmation bias.

By giving up questioning, a believer does not have an open mind. A believer is someone who is mentally conditioned to accept without evidence. As I said, religion is the best example of that mental state. Show me evidence of an alien and do not quote someone else's claims. If you can't show me evidence, then by all rights you should also question claims.

Originally posted by kmarx
OP: Seeing is believing.

No. Seeing is knowing. Not seeing is believing.