Police: Man with weapons cache was preparing for Armageddon

The only crimes I see are the ones the police committed. This man should be released immediately and have his property returned to him.

Originally posted by Astyanax
I heartily applaud the police for apprehending this dangerous lunatic.

Civilized men and women have a bargain with the State. In exchange for giving up their right to use violence, the State protects them from the violence of others. Most civilized countries do a very good job of this. The USA does it incredibly badly because of an anomalous constitutional provison that allows citizens to bear arms. Over the years, hundreds of thousands, if not millions of Americans, have paid with their lives for this foolishness.

All I can do is laugh and hope you're joking.

reply to post by Astyanax


Yeah? And how many Americans have lost their right to life at the hands of some thug or gang of thugs, because they could not defend themselves? Probably a lot more.

It would be a different story if the trade off were more even sided.
i.e. You give up 100% of your self defence capability, if you could be guaranteed 100% protection for law enforcement.

Only..there is no 100% guarantee is there...so why would you expect folks to leave themselves without defence when the alternative is potentially a violent death for either themselves or their families?

Originally posted by spikey
reply to post by Aggie Man

 

Exactly!

How can the arrest a man and confiscate his weapons and supplies, if owning weapons and ammunition is perfectly legal in the US?

Isn't it illegal to arrest someone for something that is NOT illegal?

Doesn't make any sense. Either this bloke had a licence legally entitling him to own and use firearms, or he didn't! If he did, he's well within his rights to own guns and ammo, regardless of what he thought he may have to use them for in the future!

He hasn't committed any crime has he?

Your police are seriously thick..sorry, but the more stories like this that come out of the US, the more incredible it gets.

Let it be known to all that CONSTITUTIONALLY, a Citizen of the United States can physically resist an attempted arrest by an authorized police representative - IF THAT ARREST IS AN ILLEGAL ONE AS GOVERNED BY CONSTITUTIONAL LAW - Even to the point of taking the life of that authorized police representative if need be, to defend and protect yourself and your rights of freedom.

The Supreme Court made this ruling - and thus it's a factual allowance governed under logical intuition and individual choice.

Your Right of Defense Against Unlawful Arrest


“Citizens may resist unlawful arrest to the point of taking an arresting officer's life if necessary.” Plummer v. State, 136 Ind. 306.

This premise was upheld by the Supreme Court of the United States in the case: John Bad Elk v. U.S., 177 U.S. 529. The Court stated: “Where the officer is killed in the course of the disorder which naturally accompanies an attempted arrest that is resisted, the law looks with very different eyes upon the transaction, when the officer had the right to make the arrest, from what it does if the officer had no right. What may be murder in the first case might be nothing more than manslaughter in the other, or the facts might show that no offense had been committed.”

“An arrest made with a defective warrant, or one issued without affidavit, or one that fails to allege a crime is within jurisdiction, and one who is being arrested, may resist arrest and break away. lf the arresting officer is killed by one who is so resisting, the killing will be no more than an involuntary manslaughter.” Housh v. People, 75 111. 491; reaffirmed and quoted in State v. Leach, 7 Conn. 452; State v. Gleason, 32 Kan. 245; Ballard v. State, 43 Ohio 349; State v Rousseau, 241 P. 2d 447; State v. Spaulding, 34 Minn. 3621.

“When a person, being without fault, is in a place where he has a right to be, is violently assaulted, he may, without retreating, repel by force, and if, in the reasonable exercise of his right of self defense, his assailant is killed, he is justified.” Runyan v. State, 57 Ind. 80; Miller v. State, 74 Ind. 1.

“These principles apply as well to an officer attempting to make an arrest, who abuses his authority and transcends the bounds thereof by the use of unnecessary force and violence, as they do to a private individual who unlawfully uses such force and violence.” Jones v. State, 26 Tex. App. I; Beaverts v. State, 4 Tex. App. 1 75; Skidmore v. State, 43 Tex. 93, 903.

“An illegal arrest is an assault and battery. The person so attempted to be restrained of his liberty has the same right to use force in defending himself as he would in repelling any other assault and battery.” (State v. Robinson, 145 ME. 77, 72 ATL. 260).

“Each person has the right to resist an unlawful arrest. In such a case, the person attempting the arrest stands in the position of a wrongdoer and may be resisted by the use of force, as in self- defense.” (State v. Mobley, 240 N.C. 476, 83 S.E. 2d 100).

“One may come to the aid of another being unlawfully arrested, just as he may where one is being assaulted, molested, raped or kidnapped. Thus it is not an offense to liberate one from the unlawful custody of an officer, even though he may have submitted to such custody, without resistance.” (Adams v. State, 121 Ga. 16, 48 S.E. 910).

“Story affirmed the right of self-defense by persons held illegally. In his own writings, he had admitted that ‘a situation could arise in which the checks-and-balances principle ceased to work and the various branches of government concurred in a gross usurpation.’ There would be no usual remedy by changing the law or passing an amendment to the Constitution, should the oppressed party be a minority. Story concluded, ‘If there be any remedy at all ... it is a remedy never provided for by human institutions.’ That was the ‘ultimate right of all human beings in extreme cases to resist oppression, and to apply force against ruinous injustice.’” (From Mutiny on the Amistad by Howard Jones, Oxford University Press, 1987, an account of the reading of the decision in the case by Justice Joseph Story of the Supreme Court.

As for grounds for arrest: “The carrying of arms in a quiet, peaceable, and orderly manner, concealed on or about the person, is not a breach of the peace. Nor does such an act of itself, lead to a breach of the peace.” (Wharton’s Criminal and Civil Procedure, 12th Ed., Vol.2: Judy v. Lashley, 5 W. Va. 628, 41 S.E. 197)

Preparing for armageddon is a little like preparing for the return of Elvis. The guy was clearly a nut case. Now he's a disarmed nutcase. Given the choice, I'd rather have my nutcases locked up and harmless than running around with a stockpile of guns and ammo.

Originally posted by Bobbox1980
I have thought about owning a stun gun or taser but they are next to useless in CT, they can only be kept in the home, you can't take them out with you.

you mean Connecticut? I was a pistol instructor in that state for a number of years and helped an awful lot of people get their carry permit.

I always thought it was so ridiculous that we could walk around with 1911's on our hips but not tasers. That we could keep a shotgun loaded with 000 buck by the nightstand but couldnt get any rubber-shot or any other "less than lethal" ammo for it.

The state would much rather you eviscerate your assailant than incapacitate them. I guess it was cheaper for the state that way rather than have to house and feed them for the term of their prison sentence.

reply to post by PirateShark


I think you have said the most important thing to this story. People need to come to this guy's aid!!!!! plane and simple. If no one helps him, it will continue to happen. I mean the NRA should be sitting vigel next to this guy's cell! But I doubt they will. I am a gun owner and belong to my local gun club, but I have to say I don't think the NRA does a dam thing other than call me looking for money. They seem to do some lobbying, bla bla bla. But what have they really done? In situations like this, they should be crawling up the ass of this city.

reply to post by METACOMET


"Nutcases" of the world unite!

Hey, if they want to call me a "nutcase" that's OK. Seems the 190+ comments under the article are all on the side of the "nutcase". Confiscation has begun, folks.


[edit on 11-2-2010 by romanmel]

Wow, so much for the Second Amendment huh? Seriously, when did being prepared for any eventuality become a crime? The guy had no criminal record, he wasn't threatening anybody. Way to go Big Brother!!!
Wait, what was that? Did you hear it? The sound of jack boots marching down the street???

I leave you with a quote:

"When only cops have guns, it's called a "police state".
-- Claire Wolfe, "101 Things To Do Until The Revolution"

There are thousands of Americans who have more than 20 weapons and some with special permits to collect who have fully automatic weapons etc etc.

There simply has to be a lot more to this story than the sound bytes about the gun seizures.

First of all, how do the police even know about the guy?

What was this guy doing that is so different from hundreds of thousands of other Americans who have a dozen guns and loads of ammmo?

We're not being told something here.

If you like collecting guns, or going to the shooting range...fine.

But if you believe in preparing for "armageddon" and martial law, I'm happy if they take your guns. Even if it comes to the worst case, do you really think your desert eagle stands the slightest chance against military grade weapons systems? Guns aren't the answer. Use your brain, work within the system to change the system. Blunt force is the way of the stupid, and uneducated.

Guns are legal but batons are not?

What grounds did they give for a search? (none)

Illegal search. period.

If they want to arrest everyone who thinks Armagedon is coming they are going to have to disarm around 50 million Christians first.

Lotsa luck!

This would never happen in the South!

I know up north has been trying to "europize" themselves for quite sometime and taking our guns away is very European. Boston, Massachusetts was a crucial city in the American Revolution and it is sad to see that they seem to have become a police state with no respect for the Constitution . The US is one of the few governments who was founded on the belief that are people will always have power than the government and to keep it in check the government needs to fear the people and our right to arm ourselves to protect our selves from the tyranny of government shall not be infringed. It is becoming more apparent that we need a revolution because we are becoming a nation that fears it's government.

There could be some unreleased evidence that hasn't been reported that justifies what happened here but as I understand it this has been a blow to our way of government and our Constitution. To anyone who is writing this guy off as a 'nut-job' and deserves being arrested I have a message to you"

"GET THE **** OUT OF MY COUNTRY!"


[edit on 11-2-2010 by jrod]

Originally posted by Astyanax
I heartily applaud the police for apprehending this dangerous lunatic.

Civilized men and women have a bargain with the State. In exchange for giving up their right to use violence, the State protects them from the violence of others. Most civilized countries do a very good job of this. The USA does it incredibly badly because of an anomalous constitutional provison that allows citizens to bear arms. Over the years, hundreds of thousands, if not millions of Americans, have paid with their lives for this foolishness.

Americans have no "bargain" with their government. Our government does not give us our rights, our creator does. One of our rights is own and bear arms. It's even legal to use them in self-defense. Imagine that!
Our rights are NOT provisional, our government is however.
Our national "foolishness" saved many a Europeans' arse in WW's 1 and 2 due to our national affinity with firearms. You would probably be speaking German right now if it were otherwise.

Originally posted by MrXYZ
If you like collecting guns, or going to the shooting range...fine.

But if you believe in preparing for "armageddon" and martial law, I'm happy if they take your guns. Even if it comes to the worst case, do you really think your desert eagle stands the slightest chance against military grade weapons systems? Guns aren't the answer. Use your brain, work within the system to change the system. Blunt force is the way of the stupid, and uneducated.

Believe it our not there are many Americans who believe we are about to have a revolution and we are arming up. You have never been to a gun show but I can promise you that here in the South we are very capable of arming ourselves with military grade weapons. Don't ever forget there are many of more f us than them.

reply to post by Asktheanimals


I wish people would stop mixing religion and politics ("rights given by creator"), it only leads to fundamentalism and lunatic ideas. Doesn't matter which religion it is either, Christianity, Islam, or Hinduism...they should not interfer with politics. They are not based on rationality (which isn't necessarily a bad thing), which should exclude them from having any influence on something as rational as politics or economics.

Church and State was separated for a reason!

Also, I doubt the outcome of WW2 would have been any different with, or without the 2nd amendment. Not having a psycho lunatic dictator rule over Europe was in the interest of the US, and the "affinity" of US people with guns wasn't the cause for them winning the war

I did a people search for Mr. Girard and found that he lives on Bridge St. zip code: 01944. Worthy of note that the houses on his street all appear to be pretty high dollar. I imagine that one of his Fascist neighbors ratted him out.

reply to post by METACOMET



"Girard indicated he was preparing for ‘Armageddon,’ which he felt was imminent, and he felt martial law would soon be imposed,”

That is why he got arrested!

Originally posted by Asktheanimals
Guns are legal but batons are not?

What grounds did they give for a search? (none)

Illegal search. period.

His wife went to the police because she was afraid to return to her own home. His behavior had become, according to her, very erratic. It would be helpful if we read the Boston.com story as it contains some interesting information.

Originally posted by MrXYZ
If you like collecting guns, or going to the shooting range...fine.

But if you believe in preparing for "armageddon" and martial law, I'm happy if they take your guns. Even if it comes to the worst case, do you really think your desert eagle stands the slightest chance against military grade weapons systems? Guns aren't the answer. Use your brain, work within the system to change the system. Blunt force is the way of the stupid, and uneducated.

No, stupid and uneducated is believing that you can "work within the system". How can someone be on ATS for 3-4 years and be so uninformed?

The "system" is hell bent on confiscation of all firearms because TPTB realize they can't make this country a slave state in the NWO with a well armed populace. Five hundred million guns trump any military weapon except nukes, and nukes destroy everything. The only hope for restoring freedom lost is keeping a well armed populace.

Originally posted by Moonguy
reply to post by METACOMET

 

"Girard indicated he was preparing for ‘Armageddon,’ which he felt was imminent, and he felt martial law would soon be imposed,”

That is why he got arrested!

In that case, 80% of those on ATS could be arrested, right? Wake up! This is "thought police"...arresting someone because he thinks martial law will be imposed?
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