Dutch Butterfly Crop Circle Mystery 2010: New Footage.

Originally posted by watchZEITGEISTnow
This footage is proof to me this was not man made.

I don't think I've ever seen you not accept something as proof of aliens to be honest dude, so I would expect as much lol

Why would aliens travel countless light years to draw a butterfly man in a field? Even in the unfathomably remote chance that it was an alien, I don't want to meet the retard who flew across the galaxy to give me his macaroni art.

You know what would be more useful than a picture of a butterfly? A map of where they came from or something we don't already know.

Alien 1: "Hey what's that?"
Alien 2: "I think they call that a 'butterfly', but lets get back to taking samples"
Alien 1: "Wait... I must draw it.. in this field.."
Alien 2: "But they already know about butterflies, this is their planet, what would you draw something from their own planet?"
Alien 1: "What if I made it look like it had a body... like a human? A... butter-man?"
Alien 2: "A butter-man? Have you been drinking?"
Alien 1: "What else is there to do in space?"

I don't want to meet those aliens

Originally posted by ZombieOctopus

Originally posted by watchZEITGEISTnow
This footage is proof to me this was not man made.

I don't think I've ever seen you not accept something as proof of aliens to be honest dude, so I would expect as much lol
aliens

Well if you can show where I say I BELIEVE ETs did this - or any other crop circle - please show me - because I NEVER have. Period.

Please check your FACTS before running your tripe, there's a good lad.

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The 'making of' a cover-up?

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[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/46a4c79d152a.jpg[/atsimg]

If it really were all that easy to solve the complexities of the logistics involved
of making this stunning, mega-sized and very accurate work of art during a short
6 hour summer night, as claimed by "xld-sign" with a bunch of inexperienced folks
as insinuated in the BNN video, why then is it so hard for those claiming they
created this CC to provide some actual convincing evidence they did so?

Why wouldn't the "crop circle artists" want to show off to the world,
tell about their historic unprecedented achievement?

Claimant "xld-sign" is never mentioned during the 6 minute BNN "movie"
that was broadcast on Dutch national TV?

Broadcast company BNN has made it clear in this video they were not involved with
the "initiative" of creating the Butterfly CC, all they state/claim is that they
were merely present just to shoot some footage featuring "Geraldine".

Meaning, BNN has officially retracted a previous unconfirmed rumour
of their alleged involvement.

So, going by the revelations of this stunning BNN reportage, all we know now
is that a guy named "Ron" claims he created this CC, "xld-sign" is no longer mentioned,
yet we have not been provided with any actual convincing footage, we have not seen
a single image of the process of creation nor of any aspect of the logistics involved.

"xld-sign" has not posted nor mentioned the BNN broadcast at their website.

www.xld-sign.com...

A segment of the CC establishment continues to ignore the many odd facts
surrounding the "xld-sign" claim, in particular the complete absence of actual
solid evidence that would show/prove how this Butterfly CC was made.

Crop Circle Connector website has never explicitly denied nor confirmed
the authenticity of the Human Butterfly CC.

They have mentioned the Human Butterfly CC at their "rumours" section,
adding a link to the "xld-sign" website where no facts can be found and
a link to a Dutch fringe forum "Niburu.nl" where neither any facts can be found.

Another link was added to an image gallery no longer available online which contained
the infamous group-shot of the alleged "artists" posing in front of the camera.

The infamous group-shot has never been posted at the "xld-sign" website
nor did they ever add a link to this now no longer available image gallery.

defotograaf.smugmug.com...

The 2009 CC year is now archived at CCC and only accessible to paying members.

As mentioned earlier, researcher Colin Andrews has hailed the 6 minutes of BNN bliss
as the anticipated "movie" that would prove the Butterfly CC to be man-made.

www.colinandrews.net...

Of interest here is the highly peculiar fact that Dutch crop circle organization "DCCA"
has been supporting and promoting the "xld-sign" claim, yet, without ever offering
a reasonable indication for their motivation to do so.

- "DCCA" has never posted any photographs nor any other facts/details
as to show that the Human Butterfly CC would have been created by "xld-sign".

- "DCCA" has never published any statement nor facts at their website
as to point out why they support the unsubstantiated "xld-sign" claim.

- All "DCCA" has ever offered at their website is a single direct link
to Dutch fringe forum "Niburu.nl", merely redirecting the inquiring visitors
in search for facts/details to rumours posted at a Dutch fringe-board.

At the Dutch fringe board "Niburu.nl" it is implied that "DCCA" associates
are the "specialists" who have established that the Butterfly CC would be man-made.

Initially, Peter Vanlaerhoven and Sjaak Damen, two "DCCA" associates, stated that they
had talked to the land-owner who allegedly explained to them being involved and that
the creation of the Butterfly CC would be part of an anniversary related land-art project.

The "land-owner/land-art project" rumour has turned out to be false
and has in fact later been retracted by "xld-sign" associate Manfred Koeleman.

It is indeed the only statement ever made by "xld-sign" since August 7th 2009
and when considering who is the actual land-owner it becomes clear why "xld-sign"
had to make this statement and why they had to retract this false rumour.

Landowner KMWP is closely associated with Dutch government, the fields they own
are used for advanced agricultural scientific research, they have never stated
to be involved with the Butterfly CC nor with any "crop circle artists".

www.kmwp.nl...

It is clear that land-owner KMWP, bearing a Royal honorary name
("K" in KMWP means Koninklijk = Royal), did not much feel like getting
caught up in any 'rumour games' and controversy relating to crop circles.

Last year, while discussing the Butterfly CC controversy, I have pointed
out to the dubious nature of the "land-owner/land-art project" rumour
and more detailed information can be found at the following links:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

None of these rumours were ever posted at the "xld-sign" website,
neither were they retracted at their website, the stage of the 'rumour game'
is Dutch fringe forum "Niburu.nl" in association with the 'CC researchers' of "DCCA".

You can still read these statements at link below, it is in Dutch so you may need
to use google translate. This page at Dutch fringe forum "niburu.nl" is the
one and only source of all rumours relating to the "xld-sign" claim.

www.niburu.nl...

Bottom-line, all the "specialism" DCCA has ever offered since August 7th 2009 relating to
researching the Butterfly CC is posting a mere single direct link to the "Niburu.nl" fringe forum
without providing any information nor any reasonable explanation/motivation why they do so.

The English section of the "DCCA" website no longer mentions the Butterfly CC,
any Dutch visitors are merely redirected to the "Niburu.nl" fringe forum.

More info about DCCA and their research:

www.dcca.nl...

Another Dutch crop circle organization, DCCCS, has never posted any statements
regarding the Butterfly CC, they have neither confirmed nor denied its authenticity.

The Human Butterfly CC was one of many rather graphical CCs which
have appeared during the 2009 CC year like the Dragonfly, the Jellyfish,
the Phoenix bird, the Owl, just to name a few.

Is it all that reasonable to consider the Human Butterfly to be
"too good to be true" in the light of the stunning 2009 CC year?

Is it reasonable to ignore the facts relating to a highly dubious
and so far unsubstantiated "xld-sign" claim?

Is it reasonable to ignore the dubious nature of the entirely unconvincing
BNN footage in which "xld-sign" is not even being mentioned?

My intention is not to prove the authenticity of the Human Butterfly CC.

I don't think anyone can prove the authenticity of any particular CC,
all we can do is take a close look at the facts surrounding a case
and draw our own private conclusions.

It seems only few people realize the tremendous size of the Human Butterfly CC,
the accuracy in the way it is laid out in a field of wheat, the extremely complicated
task of solving and executing the logistic issues involved, in particular, when considering
the "xld-sign" claim of having created this very accurate work of art during a short 6 hour night.

Anyone looking at the facts of this case will have to conclude
that the "xld-sign" claim does not hold any water.

Besides "xld-sign" no one else has made any claims.

The controversy surrounding the Butterfly CC points out that
there seems to be a massive interest to keep the public uninformed
about the many unanswered questions that surround this case
which point out that we are dealing with a CC like most others
in the sense that the origin and method of creation is unknown.

Some people will continue to argue that this CC has to be man-made
and that it was created to further some unspecified agenda.

I don't see how any agenda is being furthered when all the talking-heads
and "specialists" have unanimously agreed this Butterfly CC is man-made,
regardless the absence of any facts pointing out to this,
and the Butterfly continues to be ignored into oblivion?

I do see how an agenda is being furthered when considering
the Human Butterfly a genuine CC and that the agenda involved
is to keep it low-profile by means of spreading false rumours and
promoting an utterly dubious and unsubstantiated "man-made" claim.


[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/b46a7db30f02.jpg[/atsimg]

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Originally posted by Julie Washington

Originally posted by draknoir2
"You're right. No human being would stack books like this..."

This is a perfect example why these intricate CC's can't be duplicated by men. Thank's for posting this video.

Look at how long it took them and how sloppy it turned out!

No, it proves that a bunch of kids with no prior experience in crop circle making can grab a few planks of wood and create a semi-complex design of the Firefox logo.

Now imagine what a larger team of very experienced, "professional" crop-circle makers could produce...

Crop circles are man-made. The evidence tells us this.

However, this doesn't mean there is no paranormal activity around them. They apparently attract strange lights and other phenomena.

Which is why I always say crop circles aren't aliens sending a message to us - it's us sending messages to them.

reply to post by FOXMULDER147

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Fox,

I want to believe that the ATS forum is a place
where we can have civilized on-topic discussions.

The off-topic firefox video was initially posted accompanied by a one-liner.

Now you drag it into this discussion for the third time.

Originally posted by FOXMULDER147

"Crop circles are man-made. The evidence tells us this."

The subject under discussion here is the absence of convincing evidence/facts
relating to the creation of the Human Butterfly crop circle.

In this video we don't see any "professional CC makers", all we are shown
is how a bunch of inexperienced people are instructed how to handle a stomp-board,
besides ""Geraldine" we don't get to see anyone producing anything.




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I'm pretty sure the Butterfly CC has been proven to be man-made. 60 people made it for the town's 200th anniversary or something... it's on ATS. Search it.

reply to post by FOXMULDER147


No. You make the claim, so you provide the proof - as far as I have seen - there is none...

reply to post by Sol12


Just want to say - you have really nailed this and exposed either deliberate disinfo or scummy opportunists who have claimed so they can receive money from literature they sell (and the whole doing things for money crowd haven't jumped up and down about doing these for income...)

This Crop Circle is NOT man made - unless proven to be so. (which it never will).

reply to post by spinalremain
unknown origin lifeforms is all im prepared to call the creators of the true crop circles. Lets say (for discussion purposes) they are not human like, well if they came out of hiding they would be put into some kind of research zoo, if they where human like they'd be arrested for immigration laws. Plus they are guilty of criminal damage. Whoever makes the real ones im not sure but for sure they are of unknown origin, and the video doesnt prove these people made it. They'd need at least 3 qualified surveyors (is that the name for people who draw out on the ground the outline of where new buildings go?) to plan the whole creation beforehand, and then when making it each of 3 surveyors would need up to date lazer surveying equipment and each with their own team of 'tramplers.' That would mean a minimum of 35 people could make something that impressive, but its impossible to be made in night time hours. Lazer guided surveying equipment and the people doing the measuring is far from accurate when being used in night time light conditions.
True crop circles to me are the most impressive evidence of the supernatural we have, probably cause that's the intention of the makers, to make us look and realise what they are telling us, these messages are given to us in these ways because pictures are always the best way around language differences.

Originally posted by watchZEITGEISTnow
No. You make the claim, so you provide the proof - as far as I have seen - there is none...

Originally posted by watchZEITGEISTnow
This Crop Circle is NOT man made - unless proven to be so. (which it never will).

The Dutch Butterfly (also known as "Atlas") was the work of well-known crop circle maker and artist, Remko Delfgaauw. Check out his official website for examples of his work (Atlas is the first photo on the slide-show):

Remko Delfgaauw's Website

Also, this article has information about how he goes about the work (scroll down to the section entitled "Crop Circles in the Netherlands"):

The Crop Circle Phenomenom in the Netherlands

He described the months of preparation, designing and practice, as well as the nights of the actual field work, in a 1999 issue of Skepter, the magazine for sceptic scientists. What he wanted to prove was that even the most complex crop circles can be made by man: it can be done, in the dark, without any overview, using tape measures, ropes, wooden tripods, tent pins, lots of pvc pipes and headsets to communicate.

reply to post by FOXMULDER147


This is BS. This is NOT true. You are repeating misinformation/disinformation. If you have read this thread correctly - you will notice what indeed you believe to be this proof - is quite simply NOT.

Originally posted by watchZEITGEISTnow
This is BS. This is NOT true. You are repeating misinformation/disinformation. If you have read this thread correctly - you will notice what indeed you believe to be this proof - is quite simply NOT.

A video of the man in the process of making it wouldn't be enough to convince people like you. You are of the breed that convince themselves.

Believe what you like, but you're only taking yourself further from the truth when you're too stubborn/delusional to know you're wrong.

reply to post by FOXMULDER147


You have a video of this crop circle been made? Cool let's see it!

You are using absolute made up websites with unbelievably transparent and FALSE claims as your source? Really sad you have been sucked into the lie.



edit to add: and thank you for exposing these obviously false sites that have ABSOLUTELY NO PROOF THEY MADE THIS CROP CIRCLE.

[edit on 20-6-2010 by watchZEITGEISTnow]

reply to post by watchZEITGEISTnow

Yes that's right, Remko Delfgaauw has created his own fake design company, a fake website, and has been interviewed by fake magazines and fake TV programmes.

Everyone is part of the global crop circle conspiracy!

Originally posted by FOXMULDER147
reply to post by watchZEITGEISTnow

 

Yes that's right, Remko Delfgaauw has created his own fake design company, a fake website, and has been interviewed by fake magazines and fake TV programmes.

Correct - great to see you see the light!

Cheers

edit:

Originally posted by PhoenixToEmber
So I left a comment on the XLD-Sign website explaining how skeptical the crop-circle community is about the Atlas/Butterfly crop circle being made by their team and Mr. Delfgaauw actually e-mailed me back saying this:

"Hi Phoenix

We are working on a documentary. But even then, at the end of the day it is always a matter of belief unless you have been there yourself.

Check out the movie: Capricorn One. An oldie, but the message is very much alive.

Thanks for your reaction.

Remko"

www.abovetopsecret.com...&addstar=1&on=8284462#pid8284462



[edit on 20-6-2010 by watchZEITGEISTnow]

reply to post by Sol12


Sol - well done on the layout of info.

Another thing to think about.

If the xld company had been hired to create this CC for the dutch government's 200 year annivesary (which is not on their website), I would consider this to be a PR program.

Now if it was part of a PR program - why is everyone distancing themselves from it, especially since it garnered so much attention. It would have been a brilliant plan. But no, no one wants any connection to it except xld. CC's have been created for commercial publicity before - but no one is claiming this as a commercial event other than xld?

Pretty simple question don't you think?

reply to post by watchZEITGEISTnow

Scroll down.

www.cabiz.net...

Truly, this issue is cut and dried. Man made crop circle.

reply to post by FOXMULDER147


What the heck is that? Just because someone "said" they planned it for 9 months makes that "true". I know you are not that naive.

Show me the plans and notes dated 9 months before the CC showed up. Anything?

a little teaser for you SOL came accross this by accident on some insignificant site someplace but seams science speaks of biblical events and it is in essance scientifiacally what all the crop circles represent solar alighnments and super magnetic events at least yeahh the emp will knok us electronically back into the stone age at worse well "and a third part of all the green green grass was burnt up" but i dont care much for science and religion i guess its just a matter of FAITH but anyway i could go on thought you might like this and this is like a tiny part of the big picture



www.asylum.co.uk...