US right-wing groups keen to demonise NHS

Originally posted by thisguyrighthere
Through personal experience we've learned that gov is not to be trusted. . .

A rather broad-stoked mischaracterization don't you think?

Under the auspices of the Department of Defense, I'd say the 'government' does a fine job of fighting war to protect us and keep us safe. No? Are you against the troops/military?

I'd say America at the behest of the government often provides humanitarian relief in times of crisis to other nations. No?


I could go on. But to simply imply Government = Bad without citing examples is a gross over simplification.

Regards. . . KK

reply to post by thisguyrighthere


I think you've missed Mr.Lizard's point. We are discussing the NHS, which many american posters on this site have suddenly become "experts" in, despite having never had any first hand experience of it, or even been here i'd wager.

Mr Lizard gave 3 or 4 concrete examples of when the NHS has saved someones life. Flyersfan has been continually saying it has cost 'thousands' their life, yet has no evidence for this. I could add another 4 or 5 to Mr. Lizard's list from my own experience. Most British people could.

Your misgivings about American beurocracy are exactly that. It is unfortunate, but has no relation to anything pertaining to the British NHS, which is what this current discussion is focussing on.

reply to post by kinda kurious


Well, my "personal experience" was in response to mr. lizard's "personal experience but since you responded

No, I do not trust the military. Lord knows they've bombed enough aspirin factories and invaded enough countries for no reason. I also do not approve of the "humanitarian" efforts that waste billions of dollars without providing any solutions. They simply enable the issues the pretend to be easing to perpetuate.

Frankly, knowing there are gov troops all around me makes me incredibly uneasy.

Originally posted by mnemeth1
Daniel Hannan is one of my Heros.

I love that guy.

That speech of power he made to the PM is one of my all time favorite videos to watch. He knows what liberty and freedom means.

Dan Hannan, far from being the voice of the British people, is nothing more than the typical Tories windbag with delusions of grandeur. The fact that barely anyone in britain even knows who he is (before today when he got a stern public rebuke from his party leader, David Cameron) and yet has decided to set out his stall as the 'voice of the disenranchised British people' to the right wing American media is repulsive. He does not speak for me, or anyone i know. His views on the NHS, far from being representative, are actually so far wide of public opinion that he has found himself in a lot of trouble.

Rightly so, too. Let's hope the little guttersnipe gets what's coming to him and is sent packing back to being a (not very successful) tabloid journalist.

Horrendous human being.

Originally posted by CRB86

Originally posted by mnemeth1
Daniel Hannan is one of my Heros.

I love that guy.

That speech of power he made to the PM is one of my all time favorite videos to watch. He knows what liberty and freedom means.

Dan Hannan, far from being the voice of the British people, is nothing more than the typical Tories windbag with delusions of grandeur. The fact that barely anyone in britain even knows who he is (before today when he got a stern public rebuke from his party leader, David Cameron) and yet has decided to set out his stall as the 'voice of the disenranchised British people' to the right wing American media is repulsive. He does not speak for me, or anyone i know. His views on the NHS, far from being representative, are actually so far wide of public opinion that he has found himself in a lot of trouble.

Rightly so, too. Let's hope the little guttersnipe gets what's coming to him and is sent packing back to being a (not very successful) tabloid journalist.

Horrendous human being.

Those views are why American patriots went to war with the Crown.

I'm sure you do enjoy your socialist system you guys have got going on over there. Here in America we aren't such big fans.

The US was founded as a federalist republic, where the states had the bulk of the power. If a state wanted to try some socialist nonsense they could. Of course, since socialsim doesn't work, they would simply bankrupt themselves.

That's why we are all so mad that the federal government has usurped the states rights and led us down the road of socialist tyranny. If it was just one state that wanted to try and socialize healthcare, more power to them. However when the federal government rams it down the throats of freedom loving Americans, there's going to be some serious backlash.




[edit on 14-8-2009 by mnemeth1]

reply to post by mr-lizard

On topic. Finally. Good.

Originally posted by kinda kuriousyou really should report back to your Obama fake Doc thread and honor us with your Mea Culpa.

Posting a picture and saying let's debunk/verify is nothing to be sorry for.

Originally posted by CRB86
Flyersfan has been continually saying it has cost 'thousands' their life, yet has no evidence for this.

Um ... wrong. I pointed out the information about the cancer. I would have posted it myself but someone else beat me to it. So yes indeed, information was posted about lives lost.


All the NHS will do is redistribute health care, not improve it.
It will take away health care from those who are getting it now.
(as evidenced by the cancer info) and redistribute it to those who aren't
getting it.

It will have to be rationed. That's the only way it will work.

What needs to happen is that everyone needs to get health care at the
same rate that those who are getting health care now are getting it.

Just flattening out the system isn't the way to do it.

They are replacing a broken system with another broken system.

Originally posted by CapsFan8
Great britain is the worst in terms of being a police state in the world. Does no one have a problem with all the surveillance and gov't control there?

I wouldn't mind living in canada or sweden though, and they have national health care. It's just got to be done right. Somehow provisions have got to limit government intrusion.

Yes, some of us have a massive problem with it but you see, the problem is, the UK has a disease the NHS cannot cure - apathy. The vast majority of people do not know this or do not care. That said, there is a growing movement against this and we're hopeful that come the next election, when we remove the current shower we'll start to reverse this trend.

Whether that actually happens or not remains to be seen and is subject to debate!

None of this has anything to do with the fabulous service delivered by the NHS though.

reply to post by rich23


Fair points, well made.

Lets face it, do you even notice the money you pay toward the NHS going out?

Originally posted by mr-lizard
My opinion:

The NHS have been brilliant in regards to my operation last year and also giving my dying grandfather great comfort in his last days.

Shame on the right wing snobs who belittle this.

Thanks Mr.Lizard!

A lot of opposition to virtually any reform of healthcare here in the US has been rooted in the irrational "oh, this is a step towards communism and Obama is a Marx worshipper" and other such nonsense. It's sad to watch my fellow Americans who are so uninformed and brainwashed by the right wing media that they continue to spew out content-free hogwash against attempts to fix the system that by all accounts is badly broken.

Comparing the system that the UK has to what is being proposed in the us is not really very realistic.

It's like comparing an apple to a hand grenade.

Originally posted by buddhasystem
A lot of opposition to virtually any reform of healthcare here in the US has been rooted in the irrational "oh, this is a step towards communism and Obama is a Marx worshipper" and other such nonsense. It's sad to watch my fellow Americans who are so uninformed and brainwashed by the right wing media that they continue to spew out content-free hogwash against attempts to fix the system that by all accounts is badly broken.

Exactly. And fair play to you for seeing it for yourself as opposed to being swept up in the whole right wing blind nonsense. Where everything that benefits society is deemed left wing and socialist. Pfft.

It seems that the right for people to get free health care here in the UK is considered anti-American in the US.

I have no idea as to how it has become so backwards in the US, where more people would like a free gun as opposed to helping their ill grandmother.

As i've mentioned, the Uk has many faults but free health care isn't one of them. Yet it seems 'most' Americans dare not admit any fault in the US , lest they feel ashamedly Un-American.

i think a little common sense is missing.

As I recall, Obama's health policy brainchild is a public insurance system, similar - if not identical - to France and Germany. There is no tax based system being proposed.

As for " a rationed socialised system" - is the police, fire department, postal service and Library rationing and restricting their services to the general public? Never recall the fire department limiting the use of water

NHS a breeding ground for Terrorism.

Watch and wonder at the nonsense the Americans have to digest on their media . It is no wonder so many of them are perceived to be so maladroit of mental faculty when they regurgitate nonsense such as this .

reply to post by Gun Totin Gerbil


OMG, I literally fell off my chair. This needs it’s own thread.

Granted it is from a few years back but that guy who looks like the winner of the Billy Ferry (JFK) lookalike contest actually said (loosely transcribed):

“. . . The Muslim world is very good at creating Physicians. . . there’s really not much else to do because you don’t have much business or an entrepreneurial sector. . .so they produce a lot of Doctors. . . they’re producing more Doctors than they need. . .”

I'm sure Beavis is proud of his pal. Sheer lunacy.

Thanks Armed Gerbil.

[edit on 14-8-2009 by kinda kurious]

The right wingnuts are getting so shrill over everything about the Obama admin that they come off psychotic.

All the people screaming socialism, and we can't afford a national health care system, and I don't trust the government are the same people who support our government's huge military, which makes all these claims about a nationalized health care system pure stupidity, and pure hypocrisy.

If you don't trust our government, you should be screaming about the insane amount of money we spend on our military. Supporting our military budget is like buying your crazy neighbor an assault weapon. They should all be far more upset about our nations military budget.

If we can't afford nationalized healthcare, while the rest of the first world nations can, then how we we afford a military budget bigger than the other nations military budgets combined?

I think we should just adopt a nationalized healthcare system like nations in Europe, that way we could start to get something back from our tax dollars. Obama's plan doesn't go far enough.

Friend, ya'll also cant have knives or firearms either.

Why do I need the feds giving "permission" for something I was born with....inalienable rights!

thats why we arent part of your "empire" anymore.

Those of us that are "raising hell" over here arent just going off "half-cocked". We have read some of the bill in question, asked questions and didnt like the resulting answer (or non-answer as the case may be).

Why dont you ask the Irish and Scots why they arent happy being part of the "empire". I'm sure they will have similiar answers.

By the way, you empire is crumbling faster than our country. WE (at least for now) dont have area's of muslim influence that the constabulary are warned not to go into. Ya'll need to do something about it...oh, wait....

You cant. Your "teeth" have been pulled.

reply to post by felonius


Please try your best not to ruin our suave and elegant language.