Flight 93 "shoot down order" whistleblower Feb 2009

reply to post by thedman


That in itself is not what I was refering to being unusual. The fact that debris was strung over suck a wide and broken up field is unusual.

Interestingly and fortuitously, we of same mind here, are able to seek, research and embrace a clear truth; though certainly not always an agreeable one.

Originally posted by Reheat
I won't address the FDR, the recovered remains, the DNA of those remain plus a mountain of other evidence that all matches perfectly with the story that has been told.

Of course you won't address it. You won't be able to prove that the alleged FDR was from the alleged Flight 93.

You also know that alleged DNA evidence from alleged humans does not prove the identity of an alleged jet.

I don't blame you for waving your hands and glossing over 'details' that you can't prove.

The reason that 93 was shot down is because it took off late. It was 45 minutes late. Just after take off the pilots were made aware based off a communication sent to the pilot from his wife via airline communications.

If it would not have been for the congestion at the airport that morning we could very well as a country not have the White House or The Capitol Building which were the operational targets.

I do not believe this whistle blower story but I do believe that 93 was shot down. I think what happened was when it was done, it was realized that the passengers were attempting to take over and it made for a great story. There are too many inconsistencies in the "alleged FDR" that was played for even the families. They made a movie pretty quick. Get it in the heads of americans and that is what they will believe...sad but true and many of you know that.

Hi, I'm a new poster, but I don't believe this whistle-blower account.

Here's what doesn't make sense:

Elizabeth Nelson (EN): And we stood there, me and him and two other soldiers, and we looked at the TV, and we could see the smoke coming out of the building. And at that moment I saw the next plane coming, crash into the other tower. Now both towers were hit. And we all were just absolutely silent, you know. We knew what this meant.

...I do not know the names and ranks of the people in the room. I do know that it was, at the time, the head Commander of the Hospital and, I believe, the Commander of the Base.

...a plane that was flying in a no-fly zone near to Camp David and heading toward Site R. I had no idea what Site R was. And to me Camp David was a place where George Bush went on vacation. I didn’t know any more than that.

...Protocol is that this is a no-fly zone. We have to take this plane down. Yes, it’s a passenger plane. It needs to be taken down.

According to EN, the plane that was being discussed was one "that was flying in a no-fly zone near to Camp David and heading toward Site R." This couldn't have been Flt 93. It wasn't anywhere close to Camp David! Camp David is in Maryland, and Flt 93 was flying from somewhere between Cleveland and northern Pennsylvania when it was re-routed. It didn't make it to as far south as it would need to have been to be in Camp David's no-fly zone.

The whole story has to be credible, and this is just one aspect of many that don't add up.

reply to post by skeptic360


That's another thing too that bothered me. The only plane, if any plane is indeed being refered to that was anywhere near Camp David or got close was Flight 77. Given the other vagueness of the story listed, as well as questionable things, such as a base commander being in directly on a decision to shoot it down, it does raise questions.

If the story is true, that it was not flight 93 being discussed, or even a shootdown, but something else unrelated, then the witness was obviously not privy to any actual orders or anything serious, which seems most likely. It is possible she only thought this was happening, and had little clue to what was actually being discussed or taking place.

It is possible there was another plane in the area that had not landed yet, unrelated to the attacks or another aircraft they were tracking. She could be mistaken here.

Or, she could be making it up. Regardless, i think, at least for this case, it is safe to say that it is unlikely that flight 93 played any part here.

I still put it in my grey box. Not for flight 93, but simply for future reference in case something comes up, hoax or truth, related to something else.

Unfortunately, however, I do not believe there is any smoking gun here, at least not related to flight 93.

There were 2 other planes in the region of 93 that were thought to be hijacked. Delta 1989 is the plane that landed in Cleveland and was boarded by armed agents. Evidently this plane was mistaken for 93 as there was a untraced transmission referring to a bomb. This is where the conspiracy theorists get the story about 93 landing and everyone getting off the plane.

reply to post by esdad71

This is where the conspiracy theorists get the story about 93 landing and everyone getting off the plane.

No you are wrong, as usual esdad71 nice try though.

FLIGHT 93 LANDED IN CLEVELAND
The first story, posted at 11:43 a.m. on September 11, 2001 by "9News Staff" of Cincinnati's WCPO-TV, reported that United Airlines Flight 93 had landed in Cleveland. This is an up-to-the-minute news report about the flight that supposedly crashed in a reclaimed mine near Shanksville, Penn. at 10:06 a.m.
"A Boeing 767 out of Boston made an emergency landing Tuesday at Cleveland Hopkins International Airport due to concerns that it may have a bomb aboard, said Mayor Michael R. White.
"White said the plane had been moved to a secure area of the airport, and was evacuated.
"United identified the plane as Flight 93. The airline did say how many people were aboard the flight.
"United said it was also 'deeply concerned' about another flight, Flight 175, a Boeing 767, which was bound from Boston to Los Angeles.
"On behalf of the airline CEO James Goodwin said: 'The thoughts of everyone at United are with the passengers and crew of these flights. Our prayers are also with everyone on the ground who may have been involved. United is working with all the relevant authorities, including the FBI, to obtain further information on these flights,' he said."
This small, but extremely significant story of 147 words, which can still be found at the station's archives, has been purged from the historical record.
The original story is here:
web.archive.org...://wcpo.com/specials/2001/americaattacked/news_local/story14.html
A search for the story on WCPO's website brings up a page with the title, but no story. This is what one finds:
Plane Lands In Cleveland; Bomb Feared Aboard
Reported by: 9News Staff
Web produced by: Liz Foreman
9/11/01 11:43:57 AM
This story has been removed from WCPO.com.

www.rumormillnews.com...
I do not know about you esdad71, but I saw this report broadcast on TV that morning I remember it like it was yesterday. So the conspiracy theorists did not get it wrong, you did.

The report also says that flight 93 left Boston, which is untrue. Flight 93 flew out of Newark, New Jersey. This was an early report, during all the chaos and confusion, it is not inconcievable they got some details quite wrong.

It looks as if this flight was shot down but I don't believe that because of this woman. She is confused, flighty and changes her story as it goes along. She makes no sense at all. No one who prepares for this kind of interview would say 'ooo wait, no ..this happened and then that happened' eesh.

The report also says that flight 93 left Boston, which is untrue. Flight 93 flew out of Newark, New Jersey. This was an early report, during all the chaos and confusion, it is not inconcievable they got some details quite wrong.

DELTA 1989 had left Boston -Logan, this was the reason it was suspected
as hijacked. After the first two aircraft (American 11/United 175)
struck WTC, both which came out of Logan, transcontinental flights
originating out of Logan were suspect. Add to that that Delta 1989
crossed paths with United 93 at the time it was hijacked adding to the confusion.

reply to post by thedman


Yes, makes sense, that the two might have been confused, regarding this. Alot of flights out of Boston, after the first two planes hit, worried everyone, and until the planes were on the ground, there was alot of nervous speculation.

[edit on 10-4-2009 by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

Originally posted by tezzajw

Originally posted by Reheat
I won't address the FDR, the recovered remains, the DNA of those remain plus a mountain of other evidence that all matches perfectly with the story that has been told.

Of course you won't address it. You won't be able to prove that the alleged FDR was from the alleged Flight 93.

You also know that alleged DNA evidence from alleged humans does not prove the identity of an alleged jet.

I don't blame you for waving your hands and glossing over 'details' that you can't prove.

I've seen a lot of waving of hands and glossing over details in this thread. Almost all of it from those unwilling to accept that a plane controlled by foreign terrorist hijackers was deliberately crashed.

In the light of so many other events in the last decade, I still can't comprehend why this is so difficult to accept.

The topic under discussion is a flight that crashed and killed the passengers and crew. The debate has come down to whether it was part of an orchestrated act of terrorism against the US, or the government was complicit in the deaths of it's own citizens. If you're an American that's a pretty heavy issue. There are people willing to kill en masse, and it's vital they be recognized. This is not a movie or a video game.

One's judgement and analytical skills should be in place when examining something so critical to one's life and liberty.


What I've learned after a few months on ATS is that there are a lot of people out there, I presume mostly young, determined to demonstrate they have an inside track on massive deceptions from the the US government. My guess is they feel this enhances their stature somehow.

So admission that they've allowed themselves to be mislead and deceived means a loss of self-respect.

This being the case, no evidence will ever be deemed satisfactory for them.


Mike




[edit on 24-4-2009 by mmiichael]

What I've learned after a few months on ATS is that there are a lot of people out there, I presume mostly young, determined to demonstrate they have an inside track on massive deceptions from the the US government. My guess is they feel this enhances their stature somehow.

Riiiiiiight.

Your first mistake is boxing yourself in by assuming WE believe it was strictly a US led campaign. Nothing could be further from the truth. To think like that is highly misleading, you must understand the corporation that made 911 is a worldwide ambiguity, not just poor ol' dumbo "W" and his pals! Are you joking?

Once you understand the network of the Illuminati and their NWO plans, then you may just be able to understand the "young" people that are onto this inside job - are clever, articulate, free thinking, truth seeking future "adults".

The biggest shock to your 'programmed' self will be you have been duped. nothing can hurt ones ego especially if you have been had. But when you face the fact and understand there is a whole different version of the world your false perceptions shatter. This is "waking up". This is evolution en masse! This is a good thing! Be happy.

To quote some guy off Project Camelot:

At first you will be freaked out

Then you will be MAD - mad as hell!

And then, you will be glad you know.

I don't say this to you to start an argument, but surely you are on ATS for a reason? Conspiracy. Conspiracy theory. Conspiracy facts. You have unwillingly, maybe even subconsciously entered a place where you will be offered "the red pill". You will be offered historic record of crimes that have gone unnoticed for centuries, maybe longer. You will think "Hey, hang on a second - how come I didn't know that before?!" or "How the heck did 'we' let that one slide!?" even "They're doing what now?!!"

And you will see clarity in the madness that is the biggest and most consistent lie ever seen - you will find like minds and talk openly about these issues - you will meet those who choose to come here for ulterior motives - some huge egos, some government observers, insiders, or even spooks. Everyone plays their part - as they should.

The onus can be put back onto you, by simply demonstrating in this case how 911 happened. The official story - does not add up. Follow the money. Follow the many many people that are waking everyday to this brave new world of thought resistance and clarity. The greatest unanswered question I think ATM is : "What's next?".

Hope I opened your mind a little more - keep investigating.

wZn

Originally posted by watchZEITGEISTnow

t surely you are on ATS for a reason? Conspiracy. Conspiracy theory. Conspiracy facts. You have unwillingly, maybe even subconsciously entered a place where you will be offered "the red pill". You will be offered historic record of crimes that have gone unnoticed for centuries, maybe longer. You will think "Hey, hang on a second - how come I didn't know that before?!" or "How the heck did 'we' let that one slide!?" even "They're doing what now?!!"

And you will see clarity in the madness that is the biggest and most consistent lie ever seen - you will find like minds and talk openly about these issues - you will meet those who choose to come here for ulterior motives - some huge egos, some government observers, insiders, or even spooks. Everyone plays their part - as they should.

The onus can be put back onto you, by simply demonstrating in this case how 911 happened. The official story - does not add up. Follow the money. Follow the many many people that are waking everyday to this brave new world of thought resistance and clarity. The greatest unanswered question I think ATM is : "What's next?".

Hope I opened your mind a little more - keep investigating.

I'm on ATS because I have a wide range of unorthodox interests. I like the exchanges, and have learned a lot.

On 9/11. I was prepared to find out more and to see if there was a basis to the Truther false flag thing. Enough time and reading thousands of postings later, I think it's pretty clear.

The whole notion is kid's stuff. A cult at best. Grade school science throwing around a lot of impressive sounding jargon, gullible people attracted to a notion that they are champions of truth and justice tracking the Evil Empire US. Some strange notion of empowerment getting immersed in a sub-cullture of paranoid histrionic websites and endless Youtube videos - thinking they're doing what's called research.

So many parallels to the quest for the elusive ET. Another US govt cover-up. All those videos, testimony from simpletons and delusionals. The inevitable mountains and mountains of evidence that never quite gels into anything substantial.

The US govt has done innumerable disservices to itself and the world, but taking in all the solid proof available. did not fake an attack on itself. I learned it on ATS.

My primary sources are the few dozen ATS adult members I've encountered and exchanged with who supply real science, hard data, genuine and often first-hand knowledge of history and other subject they talk about, and have the ability to discern fact from fiction and disinformation.

Most of the other people I encounter on the site are at best naive and uniformed. I'll presume teenagers or advanced age adolescents. Arguing and providing Youtube links must give them some sense of involvement and an interface with the outside world.

Real knowledge and learning are wonderful. Free and readily available for the asking.

A pity to waste one's reading time sharing other people's fantasies.

Thanks for the concern, btw. No need to reply to this.

Over and out.


Mike

There is allot of alternate veiws here on ats that are very,very clouded..I for one know in my heart that there are many things of 911 that arent being told to us..Just as flt.93 was indeed shot down..But there also alot of very obscure veiws here on ats that or so outa context that it gives us all a bad rap..And TPTB use it against us..
allot of odd things happened on 911..Allot of odds that would have turned a nickle bet into a million..
3 buildings collapsed almost identicly,and two other planes crashed without as much as an engine of the proper size to be found..That alone is suspect..

As one who lives between Pittsburgh & the crash site I can give these two observations:

1. Friend working outside north of downtown Pittsburgh saw a low flying plane so close he could see people in the windows--which was unusual, he thought, because the airport was in the opposite direction and it was so low.

2. Not long after the crash, the local news station interviewed a woman in the Shanksville area who stated that she heard and explosion, looked up, then saw the plane falling straight down into the ground, then a cloud of smoke rising above the trees... in that order... I saw it. Subsequent news broadcasts did not include this eyewitness report. I wondered about it until I realized the government must have shot it down but was not about to admit it.

It leaves a better 'taste' in the mouths of victims family to believe in the movie scenario... Say, what's it gonna hurt to let them grieve a little easier? Sweet lemons.

If you want some more hidden, lying government stuff to worry about:

10/21/01 - Remember when the Irish NYC fireman named fireman Mike Moran said his famous words at the Concert for New York for Osama Bin Laden to kiss his royal Irish Ars and that he could find him in Rockaway, NY?

11/12/01 - Remember when American Airlines FLIGHT 587 A-300 Airbus crashed just outside New York's JFK airport. The plane exploded in midair over New York's Jamaica Bay. The Bush administration has announced the FBI believes Flight 587 did explode in midair and is working to determine the cause (yeah right). The FBI has a VIDEO TAPE of this plane exploding in mid air and refuses to release it to the public. It only took Osama's people under a month to take Moran up on his offer?...Suspicious? Ah, dah...didn't believe the engine fell off when they said it.
...More info here: www.revlu.com...

The government this time was probably too embarrassed to admit they couldn't protect us...

Originally posted by seeingUFOsPA

Not long after the crash, the local news station interviewed a woman in the Shanksville area who stated that she heard and explosion, looked up, then saw the plane falling straight down into the ground, then a cloud of smoke rising above the trees... in that order... I saw it. Subsequent news broadcasts did not include this eyewitness report. I wondered about it until I realized the government must have shot it down but was not about to admit it.

Lot's of Truther isolate aberrant claims on this one.

How about this one.

“There was no plane,” Ernie Stull, mayor of Shanksville, told German television in March 2003:

“My sister and a good friend of mine were the first ones there,” Stull said. “They were standing on a street corner in Shanksville talking. Their car was nearby, so they were the first here—and the fire department came. Everyone was puzzled, because the call had been that a plane had crashed. But there was no plane.”

So another unexpected point for the No Planes Theory.


But innumerable witnesses saw the plane crash as reported, and the debris collected was consistent with a normal crash of this nature.

But let's not facts get in the way of a good story.


Mike