Israeli soldier killed, Gaza truce breached

Originally posted by Britguy
reply to post by Cauch1

 

Israel and it's bought western apologists like to keep up the image of cowardly Arabs hiding behind civilians but they are hardly in a position to go fight Israel in the open. They'd be slaughtered in minutes.

Considering that Hamas are the instigators in this and that they purposefully attack civilian targets just to reap terror whereas Israel only attacks areas which contains enemies (admittedly no matter what else is there) I think you are viewing things from a distorted perspective. As this is the way they act they should just come out openly, be slaughtered and make the world a better place.

reply to post by Cauch1



You are ignoring the fact that Israel are the historic occupiers and oppressors though. Israel kills with impunity, men, women and children as a matter of policy and the numbers of dead and maimed back that up. The world has seen, both in Lebanon and Gaza, the level of violence carried out against civilian targets and no amount of spin can make it right.

Since Israel has just bomb into Gaza in response to the death of ONE soldier, I recommend that Hamas launch more rockets to teach Israel a lesson, thats the only way to achieve peace, by making Israel aware of the consequences.

Originally posted by Britguy
and no amount of spin can make it right.

Bend the truth far enough and it will break by itself without you having to actually lie. Everything can be made to appear right if you know how.

Originally posted by Cauch1
As this is the way they act they should just come out openly, be slaughtered and make the world a better place.

Thus they can not achieve their goal. A question, what makes you think that the Gazans would be better off with Hamas gone? You think the Israeli gov't would THEN drop the sanctions and treat them as people?

reply to post by intrepid


They might. Maybe not completely but I do believe that Israel would treat Palestine better if it was no longer a threat. Also no matter the outcome at least there would a few less scum in the world.

Originally posted by Cauch1
They might. Maybe not completely but I do believe that Israel would treat Palestine better if it was no longer a threat.

Well you have more faith in the Knesset than I do. They could be lambs to the slaughter without Hamas. This is the digital age and the Israeli propaganda machine isn't what it once was.

Also no matter the outcome at least there would a few less scum in the world.

Are you referring to Hamas or the IDF?

Here's a thought. Why doesn't Israel just send in the infantry? Fight by the same rules as Hamas? No tanks, no bombers, no attack helicopters? Bring a knife to a knife fight instead of a bazooka?

We should keep in mind, that Gaza is a concentration camp set up by Israel and held in a system of Apartheid. It is very crowded yet Israel chose to use illegal weapons to rain destruction upon the city. They promised precise targeted attacks, yet used bombs with a 300 foot area of effect, which is in no way "targeted" when you consider the urban environment. They also used illegal cluster bombs and flechette bombs, which the UN has gathered evidence of. They also used ilolegal white Phosphorus bombs, which indescriminantly burn victims alive. Prior to beginning the military campaign, Israel told the civilians of Gaza to go to the center of the city where it would be safe, they then proceeded to bomb the city center heavily.

When people claim that Israel only targets militants, they are dead wrong. Prior to any military action, the UN provided Israel with very precise information on where the UN safe zones were. Israel agreed not to bomb them. What israel did, was to systematically bomb every UN headquarters and School, despite there being no militants in them. When they bombed the UN main headquarters in gaza, they destroyed 1000 tons of food, medical supplies, and a number of civilians. When the UN complained about this, Israel said "opps" we will be more careful, and then then proceeded to bomb the building once again. They also targeted the UN schools and compounds during the conflict with Lebanon. Again, very precise target attacks on UN compounds, where there were no militants. More to follow on WHY Israel targets the UN>



[edit on 27/1/09 by Terapin]

Both the United Nations and the International Court of Justice refer to the area as the "Occupied Palestinian Territories," with Israel being the occupying force.

Israeli settlements in those areas are a clear violation of established international law. This violation has been affirmed by a majority of members of the Geneva convention, as follows: section 12.

"The participating High Contracting Parties call upon the Occupying Power (Israel) to fully and effectively respect the Fourth Geneva Convention in the Occupied Palestinian Territory, including East Jerusalem, and to refrain from perpetrating any violation of the Convention. They reaffirm the illegality of the settlements in the said territories and of the extension thereof."

The West Bank, and the Gaza Strip have been referred to as occupied territories (with Israel as the occupying power) by Palestinian Arabs, the rest of the Arab bloc, the UK, the EU, the USA, and both the General Assembly and the Security Council of the United Nations, the International Court of Justice, and even the Israeli Supreme Court.

If israel would abide by international law and end the illegal occupation, and illegal settlements then things would be a lot more peaceful in the region. This has been the agenda for years and for the basis of many accords including the Oslo accord. Yet each and every time, Israel has failed to keep it's promises, and continues to violate international law. Until Israel ends the illegal occupation, and illegal settlements, there is little chance of any peaceful resolution. Hamas in Gaza is like the dog in the corner. If you keep poking it with a stick, it will eventually bite back, But it isn't the dogs fault. Stop poking it with a stick all ready. Israel broke the recent ceasefire, and the suffering that resulted is blood on their hands and no one else.

As a well respected world leader and Nobel Peace Prize winner recently stated

"Peace will come when Israel grants to Palestine only that which Israel demands for itself; a right to exist and a nation of their own.
60 years of misery and death have resulted from Israel's basic hypocrisy of demanding recognition while refusing to give it."

[edit on 27/1/09 by Terapin]

Ungh, they're dropping the ceasefire over ONE soldier killed by an UNKNOWN party.

Great. With this form of diplomacy, we're going to get nowhere.


Investigate for crying out loud!
There are too many lives at stake to go about playing the blame game. For all we know it could have been an angry kid setting off an old bomb he knew about.


Well, guess I had better get my chanting ready again...
"Get the civilians OUT! REFUGEES! REFUGEES! REFUGEES!"

reply to post by masonwatcher


It is not genocide, you use thew term to try and whip up support to posted lies!!!!!!!!!

If they had commited genocide, then ALL the palistinain's would be dead, not a couple hundred.

Genocide is the deliberate and systematic destruction, in whole or in part, of an ethnic, racial, religious, or national group

Wiki

A couple hundred of about 1.5 million DOES NOT CONSTITUTE GENOCIDE.

Now, Hamas's saying Israel has no right to exist sure sounds a lot more like it.

As far as what happened, again, A palistainian terrorist planted a bomb right at the border crossing and they wonder why Israel closes the border to them.

The palistianians provide all the reasons that the border is closed to them.

Isrea, as well as everyone else, knows that if the border is opened, they will only use it to spread their terrorism.

Lets all remember why the border was closed in the first place, the palistian terrorists targeting civillians.

Close the border and don't allow palistainians in and terrorism stops dead in it's tracks.

[edit on 1/27/2009 by mrmonsoon]

Originally posted by mrmonsoon
A couple hundred of about 1.5 million DOES NOT CONSTITUTE GENOCIDE.

Hey, just give them some time. They're just getting started.

The palistianians provide all the reasons that the border is closed to them.

Isrea, as well as everyone else, knows that if the border is opened, they will only use it to spread their terrorism.

Lets all remember why the border was closed in the first place, the palistian terrorists targeting civillians.

It doesn't seem to stop the IDF from exporting terrorist though, does it?

Close the border and don't allow palistainians in and terrorism stops dead in it's tracks.

[edit on 1/27/2009 by mrmonsoon]

No, it just becomes a one way street for terrorism.

reply to post by intrepid


By "YOUR" thinking, why does the terrorists not fight man to man, instead of hiding behinds civillians.

Why don't they attack the idf and not launch attacks on civillians, everytime

Remember, it goes both ways!

Why should Israel open it's border to terrorists?

We all know what they do as soon as the border is opened, they attack.

Because of "THEIR" actions, the border is closed to terrorists, as is necessary to prevent terrorists from targeting civillians up close, instead of them using mortars and rockets.

Remember why the border was closed in the first place, the terrorist sucide bombers.

The only thing that stopped them was to prevent them from entering Israel, and we can clearly see, nothing has changed.

reply to post by mrmonsoon


Just a point of order: You don't have to actually kill everyone in a given group to call it an act of Genocide. Simply attempting is enough. Look to Rwanda, or the Former Yugoslavia. In Both cases there were clear acts of attempted genocide and the world recognized it as such. Many Jews consider Hitlers actions during WWII as a form of Genocide and I hazard to guess that few would argue the point. If someone wishes to label the systematic killing of Palestinians while simultaneously stealing their land as 'Genocide,' then it would certainly fit in with how the meaning has been used in previous cases.

If you were clever enough to read your OWN POST you would have seen that it states, and I quote, " in whole or in part" Yes, it is genocide.

[edit on 27/1/09 by Terapin]

Originally posted by mrmonsoon
reply to post by intrepid

 

By "YOUR" thinking, why does the terrorists not fight man to man, instead of hiding behinds civillians.

Why don't they attack the idf and not launch attacks on civillians, everytime

Remember, it goes both ways!

Yes it does. Like my earlier post says, why don't the IDF just send in the infantry and leave the heavy stuff at home and fight mano a mano?

Why should Israel open it's border to terrorists?

We all know what they do as soon as the border is opened, they attack.

Because of "THEIR" actions, the border is closed to terrorists, as is necessary to prevent terrorists from targeting civillians up close, instead of them using mortars and rockets.

Remember why the border was closed in the first place, the terrorist sucide bombers.

The only thing that stopped them was to prevent them from entering Israel, and we can clearly see, nothing has changed.

Which I have no problem with. They've closed the borders why continue to starve the Gazans? Cut off their electricity? Humanitarian aid? Etc? You should try to see this from both sides, not be spoon fed the propaganda.

[edit on 27-1-2009 by intrepid]

reply to post by intrepid


"Which I have no problem with. They've closed the borders why continue to starve the Gazans? Cut off their electricity? Humanitarian aid? Etc? You should try to see this from both sides, not be spoon fed the propaganda."

The border is closed to stop palistian terrorists from directly targeting civillians as they do whenever they can.

These terrorists are why the border is closed, so they terrorists are to blame for people starving-pfff.

Humantarian aid is being allowed in, just terrorsts are not being allowed out.

The electricty has NOT been turned off, that is a LIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Gaza gets 70+% from Israel.
Gaza gets about 10% from Egypt
Gaza makes only 20% or less of the electricty they use.
(google it, it is an undenyable FACT)

When the palistianian terrorits stand up to fight man to man, then and only then Israel will/should do the same.

When the terrorists stop being terrorists and stop acting like bloodthirsty animals, then and only then should they be trwated as such.


[edit on 1/27/2009 by mrmonsoon]

As far as genocide, then by what you say, the terrorists are trying to commit genocide, targeting Jews and saying they have no right to live, that sure meets the definition, eh?

[edit on 1/27/2009 by mrmonsoon]

Originally posted by mrmonsoon
These terrorists are why the border is closed, so they terrorists are to blame for people starving-pfff.

Are you comfortable in that cocoon you're in? The sanctions are the reason for the continued aggression towards Israel. By your logic the rocket and mortars that Hamas send to Israel is the Knesset's fault.

Humantarian aid is being allowed in, just terrorsts are not being allowed out.

The electricty has NOT been turned off, that is a LIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Gaza gets 70+% from Israel.
Gaza gets about 10% from Egypt
Gaza makes only 20% or less of the electricty they use.
(google it, it is an undenyable FACT)

Links, not rhetoric please. I can provide mine, can you? Btw, you just proved my point. 70%? That sounds significant when the switch is turned off.

When the palistianian terrorits stand up to fight man to man, then and only then Israel will/should do the same.

More opinion?

When the terrorists stop being terrorists and stop acting like bloodthirsty animals, then and only then should they be trwated as such.

As I asked earlier, AGAIN, are you referring to Hamas or the IDF, with orders from the Knesset of course.

reply to post by mrmonsoon


So... when will Israel stop being terrorists???

Lets see, Israel deliberately target civilians.
They deliberately target UN buildings and schools, just as they did in Lebanon.
They use weapons that are banned such as White Phosphorus, Flechette bombs, and cluster bombs.
They regularly violate the Geneva Conventions
They are in violation of numerous international laws.
In fact their whole occupation of the Palestinian Territories is illegal.

That is clearly terrorism.

Gaza..... well as I said earlier, if you push a dog into the corner and poke it with a stick, it will eventually bite back. That is what Hamas has done. They bit back when faced with being forced into a concentration camp under a system of apartheid. You call them terrorists but many call them freedom fighters and with good reason. It is time for Israel to stop it's terrorism, Stop violating international law, and end the illegal occupation.

As I understand it, the truce was one-sided, the Israelis declared it and Hamas failed to join in on the agreement.

So it was doomed to fail. Of course some people are jumping on the fact that an Israeli helicopter killed some guy who was trying to get through a security fence. The fact that he was looking to slit a few Israeli throats doesn't appear to justify their actions

I think the Israelis are trying to create some clear water here by punishing the Gazans, and then stepping back to say:

"Ok, cut it out and we'll have peace"

It just won't work though, those fanatical Hamas dogs just don't want peace, they expect Israel to simply evaporate, they don't have the intelligence to see that while they have suffered great injustices, both sides have to find a way to live with each other.

There are no such things as "terrorists" as its only a word used as a propoganda tool.

Those who are caged in Gaza only want freedom. Freedom to live in their own land, freedom to go about their business, freedom to see their kids grow up. That in their eyes and many of the worlds eyes makes them " Freedom Fighters".

Those who live in Israel have freedom to live on a land they took to call their own, are free to go about their business and see their kids grow up.
They attack civilians and children as witnessed by many world wide. That in the eyes of the "fair and just" countries of world. Makes them view Israel as the "Terrorist"

IMO there are no terrorists on any side, only murderers, walled prisons with guards and many dead children.

Israel want rid of the Pallestinians permanently. IMO thats a fact.
Israel must surely be becoming the most hated race on this planet. But their time will hopefully come. I hope I live to see it.

Respects



[edit on 27-1-2009 by captiva]

[edit on 27-1-2009 by captiva]