China's iron Olympic grip starts to slip...

China's iron Olympic grip starts to slip...

www.timesonline.co.uk

The mystery of the half-filled stands at many events at the 2008 Olympic Games has been solved, according to Chinese internet users, who say it is the result of a policy to prevent the gathering of large and possibly uncontrollable crowds.

...

In the nine days since Chinese leaders presided over a grandiose - and, it turns out, partly faked - opening ceremony, one fact after another has eluded the censors and fuelled public indignation at the costs and the charade.

(visit the link for the full news article)

So how should we feel about them shenanigans?

www.timesonline.co.uk
(visit the link for the full news article)

reply to post by Johnmike


i dont know whats your take on it aswell?
cant really expect others to give the views if you dont have one


its politics even so the olyimpics should be about sport and finaly
not my country
and with the way the leaders run the UK i have no business in judging them.

Can anyone say it would be wrong to make a strong impression on the world regarding the state of China? I think not, possibly the way they went about it was not favorable to most, but the goal was the same, to make a good impression on the rest of the world.

hmm i was watching the athletics last night and the birds nest looked pretty packed... so i don't know how true it is about civil unrest... also what was funny when china played japan and got beated (soccer) some of the comments before the game from the chinese where filled with nationalism. i love seeing people get shot down like that.

The UK papers are full of snip and is pure sensationalism at it's worst.

Like someone else here has said, if the Chinese are afraid of gatherings then why is the bird's nest and soccer matches completely packed. They are just making up stories to smear and nothing else.

The real reason why some events have had many empty seats has more to do with the Chinese culture than its fear of gatherings. Many tickets to events in China were given to people with power whether if their influence was business or politics. These people or groups have large blocks of tickets and the only way your average joe is going to get those tickets is if he or she knows people who are holding tickets. If that person does not, they have next to zero chance to seeing any olympics events live. Even if one can get tickets, I would bet that most people would not be able to pay for the scalper's price.

In the US, social classes are more interwined with one another so who you know can be a pretty good mix of rich and poor. In China, there are some very distinct differences between the rich and poor. Networking in China tends to stay within your own class. So if the upper class have tickets to events, the vast majority of lower and even middle class people don't have access to tickets.


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[edit on 17-8-2008 by Duzey]

The Japanese Olympic Committee (JOC) initially asked the Beijing Olympic Organizing Committee for 140,000 tickets to the Games. The JOC could obtain half of that number. And only a small number of the 70,000 tickets include sport events popular with Japanese people. That has led to headaches for the eight travel companies designated by the JOC to sell the tour packages. On July 1, Tokyo-based ANA Sales Co. reduced the price of its three-day tour package, which includes a women's volleyball match, from 298,000 yen to 198,000 yen. It also discounted the prices of tours for table tennis and badminton.

www.asahi.com...

I'm not sure what went on, but I was having a really tough time getting a tour package. There were only 20 seats available for the opening ceremonies. A couple of my friends went, but did not have much choice as far as events. I gave up trying - I'll head over in October when everything is a bit cheaper.

I've got a feeling that the Chinese over-estimated the demand from Europe and the USA - and the negative press China's been getting over the last few months, combined with the Visa restrictions and cost of airfare has had something to do with that....



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[edit on 17-8-2008 by Duzey]

I know that some event's, such as the Greco-Roman wrestling, where packed out at first, but as soon as the Chinese participant (some great, huge mountain of a man) got knocked out, they all litterally upped and left, leaving the arena virtually empty.

The same could be said for other events, I suppose. Because they're guy is out, they don't want to watch it, but the tickets have already been allocated rather than being resold, so you end up with some events being in empty arena's.

Having said that, there have been some packed out events as well, for example the athletics, soccer and rowing.

ANy event that doesn't have a big draw in it, China or the US, STINKS in the veiwings and attendence...

I've watched a bit of the games, and if it isn't Beach Volly ball, or swimming, the stands are over 1/2 empty...


That being said, all the important events are still being well atteneded...

ANy event that doesn't have a big draw in it, China or the US, STINKS in the veiwings and attendence...

I've watched a bit of the games, and if it isn't Beach Volly ball, or swimming, the stands are over 1/2 empty...


That being said, all the important events are still being well atteneded...

Yeah, it is kind of strange seeing some of those stands empty, but I never speculated as to why. Maybe they just anticipated more interest in some events then they could sell tickets.

I don't know if it's just me getting older and less interested or the television coverage just plain sucks in the U.S.

We have this guy that won eight gold medals in swimming Phelps, but I've only caught about 3 of his wins because NBC wont tell you when it will be on in order to make you watch crap that you are not interested in.

I tried to watch a bicycle race and they show you 5 minutes and come back an hour later to show you the finish. So you never get entrenched completely in the event and it becomes meaningless.

So, after a couple days of crappy coverage I pretty much gave up trying to see what I liked. Just not worth my time sitting in front of the tube for 3 hours to watch a 10 minute event that's been tape delayed.

Why can't an network like ESPN get the Olympics and put in on 10 channels 24 hours a day live with the published schedules of start times and then repeated afterwards? Instead we have a bunch a dick wads trying to do it the old school tV when there was only a handful a choices.

Sorry, back on topic.

I think China did a fine job by the looks of the venues from TV - a few incidents aside - like reporters being arrested and the City having more smog than L.A.


[edit on 17-8-2008 by verylowfrequency]

Just look at the extremely (sarcasm on) "exciting" (sarcasm off) horse (pentathlon) events in Hong Kong, and it is even less than half-filled. What does it says? Yeah, the "commies" have picked up so many people that in Hong Kong we only have a handful of people left to watch this sport event....

*yawn* seems like people will keep on looking for something to bash on China...

Originally posted by bodrul
i dont know whats your take on it aswell?
cant really expect others to give the views if you dont have one

Well I just think it's pretty funny how China is faking everything. They're trying to show off, and it's extra laughable when they fail.

Originally posted by space cadet
Can anyone say it would be wrong to make a strong impression on the world regarding the state of China?

If it means having to fake things to show off? Yes, I can.

Originally posted by verylowfrequency
Why can't an network like ESPN get the Olympics and put in on 10 channels 24 hours a day live with the published schedules of start times and then repeated afterwards? Instead we have a bunch a dick wads trying to do it the old school tV when there was only a handful a choices.

They do it like the Super Bowl. The Olympics sell the rights to one network (well, two, another gets to run it when the regular network isn't). So we're reliant on what that one network decides to let us see. I hate it.

Originally posted by verylowfrequency
I think China did a fine job by the looks of the venues from TV - a few incidents aside - like reporters being arrested and the City having more smog than L.A.

Well, as long as you weren't the poor guy waiting on line for a ticket...

[edit on 17-8-2008 by Johnmike]

Without hijaking this thread but..

With the Faking of the Fireworks in the opening ceromony(-wich in my opinion was totally unecessary. China is the home of fireworks, they started the rocket for christ sake. they are the biggest producers of fireworks in the world!??!-)
and the fakeing of the girl singing, would it come to you as a big suprise to find out they may have given themselves an unfair advantage in many olympic events?

Busted!!! China Caught Cheating-- Female Gymnasts Too Young

www.politicalforum.com...

Between 2003 and 2006 the General Administration of Sport of China reported that Chinese gymnast Yang Yilin was born on Aug. 26, 1993.
In 2007 the Chinese bumped her birth date back to Aug. 26, 1992: results.beijing2008.cn...


There were already reports questioning the age of the Chinese gymnasts before the gymnastics team competition last night.
But, after the world got a better look at the teens with missing baby teeth www.nytimes.com...&oref=slogin there were several reports today on the controversy.

www.npr.org...=93555913
www.latimes.com...

The New York Times reported on August 4, 2008: query.nytimes.com...


With the start of the women's gymnastics competition less than one week away, questions are again being raised about the age of a Chinese gymnast scheduled to compete at the Beijing Games.

Yang Yilin, a top contender for gold in the all-around and the uneven bars, could be 14 instead of the minimum age of 16, The Associated Press reported Sunday.

She is the third of six Olympians on the Chinese women's gymnastics team whose age has been questioned in the lead-up to these Olympics.

Registration lists from 2003 to 2006, previously posted on the Web site of the General Administration of Sport of China, said Yang was born on Aug. 26, 1993, which means she will turn 15 later this month. Gymnasts must turn 16 during the year of the Olympics to be eligible to compete in the Games.


And China has been busted cheating in the olimpics MANY TIMES in the past..

[edit on 17-8-2008 by wolfmanjack]

This is why I won't watch the Olympics:

1. Variance in numbers punished in the 1990s and the 1980s

In the period 1987-1992, the number of officials under investigation at provincial and ministerial level reached 110, amongst whom 79 were investigated in the period 1990-1992. However, the number of severe corruption cases, and officials who were given disciplinary measures by the Party, increased by a considerable margin, especially those sentenced. Among 64 senior official corruption cases in the database, 31 cases were submitted to the judicial authorities and given judgments, of which only five were sentenced before 1992 and 26 sentenced after 1992.

With regard to the amount of money involved, cases in the 1990s were much higher than those of the 1980s. Before 1992, there had been no embezzlement or bribery case with money reaching 100,000 yuan (US$12,081.7). While after 1992, among 37 cases in the statistical data, there were 27 cases exceeding 100,000 yuan, amongst which 12 cases accounted for over 1 million yuan (US$120,816.84) and four cases accounted for more than 10 million yuan (US$1,208,167.99). Five cases after 2000 were all above 1 million yuan.

2. High incidence of corruption (late 1980s - early 1990s)

Among 54 cases clearly dated, 43 cases began in the period 1988-1995. In the meantime, the Circular of the Supreme People's Court and Supreme People's Procuratorate, released in 1989, declared the central government's determination to severely punish corrupt officials. There was still a high incidence of corruption during this time and it meant that the effective goal of reducing corruption was not entirely successful.

3. Ministerial and commission corruption severe (1980s); coastal areas high incidence (1990s)

Before 1992, severe corruption cases in ministries and commissions accounted for the greatest number, decreasing in the early 1990s but conspicuously increasing by the middle of the decade.

Further research shows the difference between corruption behavior in ministries and commissions in the two periods. Before 1992, corruption mainly occurred in the self-management systems of the ministries and commissions. Corrupt officials usually entered economic fields through government engagement in trade and sought to profit by taking advantage of their rights of examination and approval. After 1992, a new corruption characteristic appeared where senior officials colluded with local enterprises, seeking to profit by taking advantage of their position and power. The former mainly consisted of unit corruption while the latter was mostly individual.

With regard to the range of corruption, once China implemented its policy of reform and opening up, the incidence of corruption in coastal areas was little higher than that of inland areas, while money involved in coastal area cases was obviously much higher than that of inland.

4. Gang cases increase

In 1989, the bribery case of Luo Yunguang, vice minister of railways, shocked the whole nation, owing to the group of people concerned, as well as the high-level position it involved. After that, China's prosecuting agencies, at all levels, successively probed a number of new group and gang corruption cases, including many officials above ministerial and provincial level, such as the embezzlement and corruption cases of Wang Baosen (former Beijing vice mayor) and Chen Xitong (former Beijing mayor) exposed by the "Wuxi Xinxing Co. illegal fund raising case" and the bribery case of Wu Wenying and Xu Penghang, two top leaders in charge of textile industry, exposed by the "Kangsai case". The Xiamen Yuanhua smuggling case involved a greater number of people with two officials at provincial level.

Local group corruption cases have been more problematic. The latest case in Shenyang, northeast China's Liaoning Province, involves one official at vice provincial level, four at vice department level, 11 at division level, seven at county division level. They got over 200 millio

I think China has gone all out to prove itself to the world at these Olympics. While China's civil rights record is bad, they are trying to change all that, and that is important.

China has done a great job at these Olympic games, and this should be acknowledged.

Originally posted by poet1b
I think China has gone all out to prove itself to the world at these Olympics. While China's civil rights record is bad, they are trying to change all that, and that is important.

China has done a great job at these Olympic games, and this should be acknowledged.

Great job at what? Not getting caught cheating yet? LMAO

China or rather the teams they send to the Olympics are rampant with cheaters. Do a google search and you will see how many times their people have been busted doping etc....... Over MANY years worth of Olympics.

Mehh.. Sorry i have no faith in them.... Just like the Russians...

CGI Fireworks...
Fake singers
Ethnic minorities played by young chinese
Mt Everest climb

all these have question marks over them..

if indeed they are fake, it shows the chinese do not hold ethics and truthfullness as a priority..

so long as it looks pretty, and draws the crowds.. they dont care if its a farce..

I wonder what they'd be prepared to do, to get more medals than the USA?


One just cannot be sure at china's ethics when it comes to these games.
A nice show with lots of bright lights and happy people doesnt mean its all good, or legal.

We all remember the swimmers,

China have done exceptionally well at these games, they are flogging the US, and I cannot remember a games where the US didnt finish #1.

I have no doubt a country that has the tech to create a nuclear weapon, has the biological capacity to create a doping agent thats not detected.
hell, why even make it an agent, surely there's something out there that makes people stronger, faster or perform better..without leaving traces in their bodies.

If Im wrong, I apologise to all chinese athletes, but watching a chinese women weightlifter, thrash the world record by upper her left so dramatically... and doing it without raising a sweat...

raises questions...