We Weren't Designed To Eat Meat, Here Is Proof

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984


Yes his point about creatine is true, atp levels suffer without it. However it is certainly not true that it is only found it red meats, it is found in all meats and fish.

reply to post by AnOldFriend


Yep i agree, it's why i avoid alcohol for the most part. I can drink plenty alright but even one bottle of lager tends to seriously knock me about the next day. Not like your classic hangover, my body just doesn't seem to work right. My grandad on the other hand swore by a brandy each and every day, lived a long time as well.

As you said, what works for one might not work for the other Wish others would take that attitude instead of trying to force their way of living on another person.

Originally posted by mrmanuva
Yes his point about creatine is true, atp levels suffer without it. However it is certainly not true that it is only found it red meats, it is found in all meats and fish.

Yep i know, i also know cooking the meat or fish tends to seriously reduce it's creatine level as it breaks down rapidly. Have to love a bit of sushi.

[edit on 15-6-2008 by ImaginaryReality1984]

Originally posted by Ragnarok691
Vegans can have their lifestyle if they want. They can live their life weak and frail if they want.

How incredibly ignorant. I'm stronger than most people I know - quite possibly you yourself included.

reply to post by Cythraul


Read the points above about creatine. You are living in a modern society, this is posted in the survival forum. When faced with such situations the body needs animal proteins to run at peak performance. Without it your body shuts down, why do you think the army of the UK and the USA spent so much researching nutrition. If they thought veganism was more healthy they would force it on their troops.

They have to give them meat because under the heavy workload the body needs the protein and whislt you can get a very complete protein range from beans and other pulses. You have to eat wide and varied levels of foods to get the same as in meat and so it's harder to get.

Then there is the creatine arguement above, why don't you read it and reply, i'd be interested in hearing your view on it.

[edit on 15-6-2008 by ImaginaryReality1984]

We are omnivores, in fact until we started scavenging and eating meat, our brain size stayed relatively small. Once we started hunting, with the added protein our craniums increased. Just take at look at the early ancestors of Man, they were small brained monkeys till they started to eat meat. The move from the trees is what made us ominvores.

reply to post by Evil Genius


I think my point about vegans is valid, I think you just perhaps havent read up on their reasoning for things. For example, taking eggs from chickens doesnt hurt them, but the chickens that produce eggs are brought up in terrible conditions (especially battery hens) and arent allowed to live anything like a normal life.

[edit on 15-6-2008 by mrmanuva]

reply to post by mrmanuva


In regard to fats.

Fat is one of the easiest of foodstuffs for the body to break down. The ''Perfect'' survival food is in fact Lard.

Vitamins A, D, E, and K are fat-soluble, meaning they can only be digested, absorbed and transported in conjunction with fats. Fats are also sources of essential fatty acids, an important dietary requirement.

Fats are vital in maintaining healthy skin and hair, insulating body organs against shock, maintaining body temperature and promoting healthy cell function. They also serve as energy stores for the body. Fats are broken down in the body to release glycerol and free fatty acids. The glycerol can be converted to glucose by the liver and thus used as a source of energy. Any excess energy is then stored in muscles.

Obviously, too much fat is NOT good for you.

reply to post by pavil


I just wanted to say that the meat eating = big brains arguement, has come under heavy fire. I'm not convinced by it myself, and i'm speaking as a meat eater. I don't think we as meat eaters can use this argument in favour of being omnivorous.

Originally posted by cosmicstorm
my avatar doesnt look like someone ill or unhealthy... and ive never eaten meat

Forgive me for saying this, but for all we know you're plastered in makeup in that photo so it's hard to know if you're looking well or looking ill. It's true though that vegetarians and vegns look perfectly healthy to me when i've seen the and the stereotype of them looking sickely is wrong.

[edit on 15-6-2008 by ImaginaryReality1984]

Originally posted by Essan
Incidently, why do humans have canine teeth and only one stomach?

Check page 2. These teeth are apparently for decoration.

Originally posted by loam
However, that is not to say we shouldn't look more closely at the manner of our food production. The quality of our animal protein is something almost universally ignored, but pretty damned important. If ever there were a silent crisis in the modern world, it would be that one, imo.

And I couldn't have said that better!

Originally posted by cosmicstorm
my avatar doesnt look like someone ill or unhealthy... and ive never eaten meat

Great! That's cool. Can you understand that it's okay if you choose this for yourself but that doesn't mean that everyone should make the same choices you do?

reply to post by Rasobasi420


I always thought that the Aussies ate more meat than the Americans. Either way humans eat meat for the protein value. That is why our ancestors did to get where we are today. Otherwise, we would still be primitive and brain not developed as it is today.

Originally posted by AnOldFriend
look people the fact is that nobody knows what is good for me or anybodyelse. What is good for me may be bad for you and vice versa. If you feel like you are healthier eating one thing and not another then great, but that doesn't mean other people will have the same outcome. Just because your allergic to bees doesn't mean I am.

Let's keep in mind that we're all built basically the same so we basically need the same things to keep us working correctly. There are anomalies and diseases that change needs but for the "normal" population, we're all basically the same-OMNIVORES.

The way our bodies are built proves that we are omnivores and not vegan's.

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984



I don't use it in the argument of humans being omnivores. Go take a look, Human brain sized did not majorly increase till we first started eating meat in addition to our diet. Primarily it was the marrow that we cracked out of bones of animals killed by other predators with our primative tool making.

A large brain requires a large amount of protein. The easiest source of large amounts of protein are in meat products for the most part.

Originally posted by mlmijyd
What insular ignorant dribble you do post and it smacks of typical defensive denial of the facts. So you too can have a read this is only one of many.

Vegan's and B12

Let me guess you probably would argue for being allowed to have guns also?

Buddy, I think you should have read that link before you posted it, because it disagrees with you. It also states (well, implies) that humans can't produce Vitamin B12 on their own, like you, through a great deal of ignorance, falsely stated. These yeast extracts are fortified with Vitamin B12. Like I said, yeast extract does not have Vitamin B12 unless it is fortified with it. that is, unless humans unnaturally add Vitamin B12.

The point of this thread is whether or not it is natural to eat animals. The fact that, if you don't eat dairy, eggs, or meat, all animal products, you will become deficient in Vitamin B12, shows that it is inherently unhealthy for a human to refrain from eating animal products. You can supplement it, through unnatural, man-made vitamins and supplemented foods, but the bottom line is that in nature, a human would become Vitamin B12 deficient without animal products.

And due to your son's vegetarian diet, make sure that you see a nutritionist to ensure that he is getting all the vitamins and proteins he needs. There are right ways to go vegetarian, and wrong ways to go vegetarian.

And I generally favor civilian ownership of firearms, though I have no idea how it has anything to do with this.

[edit on 15-6-2008 by Johnmike]

reply to post by jfj123


I certainly agree and will and always have eaten meat. I am just saying that some peoples make up allows for less of certain things and more of certain things. So therefore some people might be able to eat only veggies and the like and be just as comfortable and able as a person who eats both veggies and meat.

Originally posted by Cythraul
Don't worry mlmijyd. JohnMike is just demonstrating the predictable actions of an anti-vegetarian (see my post, 4th down on this page). They'll always be around and they'll always be excessively offensive to over-compensate for something. All of my friends are meat-eaters but seeing as they respect my choice, I choose to respect theirs. If JohnMike was a little more respectful he'd be worth paying attention to.

Stop making fun of me! That's mean, Cythraul.

Uhh, It's called evolution. Monkeys herbivores. The got down from the trees, got to harsher environments where there aren't any bananas, only i.e. snow and sabretooth tigers and mammoths or desert with camels, etc. Humans started eating that. We have the characteristics of herbivores, because we evolved from them, but we became omnivores.

If you take a skeleton of a human 100000 years ago, you'll find stronger, bigger, sharper teeth. If you continue forward from there, you will find that people found fire, people learned to cook, to prepare food and they acquired milder organisms, enough to eat cooked meat. After a while the appendix became useless, but it contained the immune system cells that digested raw meat.
Humans were hunters, they hunted and ate millions of mammoths.

No, at the moment we aren't adapted to eat raw meat, but rather, to eat cooked meat, plus vegetables, plus minerals. The organism adapts gradually to it's environment to survive better. But a long time ago we were the meanest carnivores around. Right now, if you take the food we eat with all the additives and preservatives and colorings and other chemicals and give it to somebody 500 years ago, you are likely to kill him. Maybe in 100 years much less things will be poisonous for us, as the organism adapts, but we definitely had enough time to adapt to raw meant and then divert from it toward softer, cooked meat.

Originally posted by Wotan
reply to post by mrmanuva

 

In regard to fats.

Yes I know this, my knowledge of nutrition is beyond that of the average mans comprehension, due to being an avid bodybuilder and having been a vegetarian in the past. I take in as much fat as I need and from healthier sources than red meat. The body needs fat to function, but it does not need much saturated fat to be healthy, red meat and dairy are higher than many other sources, hence why I dont eat them. The average fat man with rather bad ldl readings is unlikely to be eating lot of grilled salmon and chicken, he is far more likely to be eating loads of red meat.

As for the digestion comment, I was not talking about fat being hard to digest, I was talking about the fact that red meat is harder to digest, courtesy of its nature of grissle and general toughness.

Originally posted by Cythraul
I'd like to add that these debates are POINTLESS on forums where 95% of people are meat-eaters. There will never be a fair, civil debate and nothing will be accomplished. See how this thread is awash with fanatical meat-eaters finding any and every way to ridicule vegetarians for making a positive choice!?

Lead by example in the real world!

Lead by example, indeed! "Awash with fanatical meat-eaters"? If I followed your example, I would ask, "Where do these obsessive lettuce heads come from anyway"? But I don't say that because I don't have any problem with you (or anyone) choosing not to eat meat.

Do you have a problem with other people eating meat?

Originally posted by cosmicstorm
why all this negativity towards someone who doesnt eat meat? where is the problem?

I suppose its because some have a feeling that he vegetarians trying to force their beliefs on them. That's never fun.

reply to post by mrmanuva


Well i don't want to take the thread off topic but i'll say this. I think if soeity gave up red meats, stuck to poultry and fish then we'd be a lot better off. As you said red meat takes a while to digest, and lots of energy by the body to do so. It sits in the stomach a long time and contains high levels of bad cholesterol.

Whilst many people think it can be part of a balanced and healthy diet i tend to avoid it most of the time. The only time i do eat it is in certain dishes that pack it out with a lot of vegetables. Our ancestors often ate red meat but that was at a time before we understood it's damaged effects.

Poultry has all the benefits of red meats and very few of the drawbacks. Fish also are extremely good for you, providing high quality proteins and large amounts of quality, good fats. Fat has been demonised so much and yet good fats are essential!

However ina survival situation we must address bad fats. Bad fats give a very concentrated energy source, needed for the long haul to heat, insulate and power the body. In a survival situation, animal fat is your friend.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


Exactly, i tired to point that out ina previous post, being called fanatical meat eaters is going to get everyones back up and i wouldn't do it in return to a vegetarian. That guy seems to be rather hypocritical.

I've had a few vegetarian friends and been called things like "corpse cruncher", it's never bothered me because they'll never stop me eating meat when i think it provides a good part of the diet if used correctly. However the need to force their beliefs on me is what always bothered me, and trying to throw in the guilt factor is a common tactic.

[edit on 15-6-2008 by ImaginaryReality1984]

[edit on 15-6-2008 by ImaginaryReality1984]

I imagine it's been mentioned already, I didn't have time to read all seven pages, so apologies if this is redundant.

Reminded of Arthur C. Clarke's "The Sentinel"....later crafted into the exquisite "2001: A Space Odyssey"

The iconic opening sequence of proto-humans, starving in a drought....and not realizing the protein-rich, life-giving source of food (the other animals) that were literally right under their noses. The 'monolith' appears, to teach...and rest comes along, in the story.

Of course, the other analogy is, with this knowledge of slaughtering animals, we can also slaughter others of our own kind. This is the irony of knowledge....

Back to point, of OP. The modern human brain requires a lot of energy to function properly. Homo-Erectus and Homo-Habilus needed good sources of protein, to continue to evolve and change....to adapt, as needed, to Homo-Sapiens and eventually, us.....Homo-Sapiens-Sapiens. (Yeah, I may have skipped a few bits there, but my point is made)

Our gray matter kept getting bigger, and needed energy to develop. Do we, or do we not, have the largest brain mass, in relation to our body mass, than any other species on Earth?

The limitation was in the ability of natural childbirth....the head is the most critical feature, and the largest impediment to future cranial development is the vaginal canal.