Where is the connection?

I'm always hearing how the Illuminati is linked or connected or affiliated with freemasonry..

I've never understood why or how this connection is made.. is it just an assumption? Did Freemasons cooperate with the Illuminati at one point in history?

Maybe someone on the board can enlighten me a bit and let me know if freemasonry and the Illuminati are actually cooperating together and if not, why do a lot of people feel like they are?

Hmm the only reasons why is that at the height of the Degree in Fremasonry is the 33rd, and that being the highest you are given ultimate trust and somtimes give some secrets. and if your really good, then you'll be put in high places like Presidency. And if your a really good boy who follows the rules even at your own exepense but your worth something, you might get to join a little club.

But thats my interpretation. I think theres a valid reason i just dont know what that reason is lol. Hope some ppl can clear up this connundrum!

It might just be that it gets its control by choosing people with the same ideological values to move up to higher spots in secret orders. These people are then tapped for spots of power. (see link in signature)

Or people are indoctrinated while they move up, those cold enough to perpetuate power by the few are given more secrets and power.

Search the net, you will get many wild theories, but you will also see some history on who they might be, now because they are secret there can always be another layer we don't know about, or maybe the layer really doesn't exist. It is the secrecy that is the problem.

Here is an example of how a group can begin to form, then how it is bought off and then brought into the club. It starts with pre 2004 attitudes in rap culture, then goes to post buy off in the club attitudes.

They each have a common message without the use of command and control, the Illuminati do not need to issue orders they only need to control the people who have power.

(Songs contain graphic language)

Shorty Lets Ride
www.youtube.com...
After this vid release a FBI director showed up in California and announced he was going to crack down on gang violence, the next week an individual attacked Young Buck and his crew with a knife at Vibe awards, Young buck was arrested accused of stabbing the person attacking them. Accused of stabbing the guy who was attacking people on stage.

eminem
www.youtube.com...
He got a Secret Service investigation from this one.

Brethe
video.google.com...

I need a soldier
www.youtube.com...

Stand Up
www.youtube.com...

What they gonna do
www.youtube.com...

I mean no disrespect, I only repeat a comment I heard "We thought this was just jungle beats, we are looking into it" It was actually more disrespectful of a phrasing.

Ludacris seems to have moved into the club.
Get Back
www.youtube.com...

It seems he may have just sworn allegiance just to teach the children.
Southern Fired Intro/Blow it out
www.youtube.com...

Within a year Snoop dog had an advertising contract with a mobile phone company. And so did Fat Joe. I quote the advertisement he did "We found that Fat Joe has the remarkable ability to speak to animals"
www.youtube.com...

Fat Joe also sung of being in the club, and told people to lean back
www.youtube.com...
The corporate agenda of promoting wealth and ownership of wealth returned to the rap music scene. With focusing on getting rich(the clubs power) women and commercialism.

I post all this to try explain the mechanism of communication that is used within secret orders, or those that rally against them. This is why you just can't explain the Illuminati and how it connects with other societies. It is not a few people meeting and handing down memos to their foot soldiers, it is many of common thinking taking care of each other and speaking in allegory and metaphor.

Learn the code, Parent/child, spark, The Club, Firemen putting out the passions of the masses, animals, monkeys, clowns, baby, Giants, small people, bunnies, and of coarse much more. Join the fight by understanding the mechanisms.


[edit on 4-10-2007 by Redge777]

The Illuminati

This movement was founded on May 1, 1776, in Ingolstadt (Upper Bavaria), by Jesuit-taught Adam Weishaupt (d. 1830), who was the first lay professor of canon law at the University of Ingolstadt.The movement was made up of freethinkers, as an offshoot of the Enlightenment, which some believe was a conspiracy to infiltrate and overthrow the governments of many European states. The group's adherents were given the name Illuminati, although they called themselves "Perfectibilists". The group has also been called the Illuminati Order, and the Bavarian Illuminati, and the movement itself has been referred to as Illuminism. In 1777, Karl Theodor, Elector Palatine, succeeded as ruler of Bavaria. He was a proponent of Enlightened Despotism and in 1784, his government banned all secret societies, including the Illuminati.

Source

Many of the original founders of this group were thought to be Freemasons. Since they were banned by a despot (tyrant) maybe they weren't so bad. In any case it was widely rumored that they intended to take over every world government and whether true or not it is what most people believed. The Illuminati did not last long but because of their reputation their name gets attached to any group that one supposes is controlling the world.

The term Illuminaty is basically a slang or generic term applied to any secret society. If there is one group in control of the world, I doubt they call themselves by that name.

If you want to know who controls it all, follow the money, banking, oil etc. They use religions, political parties, governments, corporations and societies to take the fall for their actions. It is not hard to spread the blame, just drop a few conspiracy theories and plenty of people will propagate it like a virus.

I agree the term Illuminati is just are label for some mysterious cabal, even if it is just created by common interest and not some official chain of authority.

If it even really had a name, that name would change and rotate if it was ever part of the common consciousness. Also changing names allows knowing if the organization has a leak, as new labels are made, leaks can be identified.

all I've really gotten from this thread so far is: If the Illuminati does in fact exists it operates very similarly to the way the Freemasons operate or run their fraternity and some of the original Illuminati members may have been Masons

what am i missing? why are masons always bunched up with the Illuminati?

they seem like good people to me

[edit on 4-10-2007 by The Phantom]

man.. i had a really long response typed out, but somehow it got lost. so unfort, ill keep it short this time around.

from what i understand, the adam weishaupt's bavarian illuminati infiltrated freemasonry to exploit it's existing influence, much like the us has been infiltrated by corporations and arms dealers to exploit it's influence and power. That's why they are associated sometimes, regardless of whether or not the person making the link realizes / thinks that or not.

of course, it's all speculation - and modern day "illuminati" would not be comparable either, since we're talking about a group that was only really mentioned before there was an internet, cellphones, stock market, etc.

The core of the issue is this, boldly saying. The goodness of most freemasons can be disguise. As humans are predisposed to it in most of their daily lives. And many are genuine and good, and follow the masons as they would a place to be together with like minded people. They have a potential for being used and upper levels manipulating the lack of knowledge of fraternal trickery.

The obvious cultic behaviors behind masonry leads me to think it is of the origin of taking drugs, and seeking visions and silently dominate, the markings of a rich man, muwahahaha. Where do I find this belief? In its own imagery. Logo's of businesses, notice any themes in design? Any linking shapes, wordages..no? DOnt believe the hoccus pocus maybe?
ok. here.


www.youtube.com...

www.youtube.com...

let's keep this a bit more on topic. I'm not seeing where mushrooms and hexagons have anything to do with the connection between the illuminati or the freemasons.

i think your view of it all as "cult" is a bit myopic as well - although I do understand what you mean, and yes i agree, although not with the terminology.

reply to post by The Phantom


The actual historical Illuminati of Bavaria was a quasi-Masonic order, and many, if not most, of their members were also Masons. Dr. Adam Weishaupt, Adolph Von Knigge, the poet Goethe, the composer Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart, and mystic Comte de St. Germaine, were all Illuminati members and were also Masons.

The Illuminati was a separate organization from Masonry. However, Masonry and the Illuminati already shared several ideals, so the Illuminati sought to bolster its membership by recruiting from the local Masonic Lodges. This scheme mostly failed: most of the Masons were sympathetic to the Illuminati, but refused to back an armed rebellion against the Bavarian government, preferring a peaceful solution to the political problems of that time.

Today, conspiracy theorists often refer to rich folks, international bankers, and other big players as "the Illuminati", but they have nothing to do with the real historical group of that name.

Originally posted by Masonic Light
Today, conspiracy theorists often refer to rich folks, international bankers, and other big players as "the Illuminati", but they have nothing to do with the real historical group of that name.

thanks ML, i think this is where a lot of people, including myself, get confused.

the Illuminati today is basically rich bankers and things like that.. completely different then the historical Illuminati of Bavaria and people seem to get them mixed up. people thing the Illuminati of Bavaria and todays "Illuminati" is the same thing.

thanks guys, i think i get why people associate todays "Illuminati" with Freemasonry. I'll be sure to start correcting this now when i hear it or read it.

The Bavarian Illumanoodles were mainly if not all freemasons, thus the connection. Also speculation on when founder of Skull and boonesfarm went to germany around the time of the ending of Adam W's outfit.

reply to post by Redge777


That was an excellent explanation. The Illuminati is an umbrella word also expressed this way - Establishment. They are a relative small world group of exceptional wealth and power. They have multiple membership associations in secret societies. The most prominent and powerful being Yale's Skull and Bones Chapter 322 (The Thule Society of Germany Chapter 322).

For people inquiring on Freemasonry, it is best to read Albert Pike's Morals and Dogma. This book is the heart of Freemasonry though those at 31st degree and down have no input into or first hand experience within the inner sanctum workings of the highest degrees starting at 32nd degree.

Albert Pike was a vocally avowed Luciferian based in Arkansas, specifically Fort Smith and Little Rock. He was also the Chief Justice of the KKK Southern Division. His statue, in DC outside the national Freemason's Temple, is the only Confederate soldier commemorated on federal land.

On the surface, the Freemasons are supposed to look as a benign club for social events. It's the top level that changes to Luciferian practices. Nothing has changed in this respect. It was Luciferian before Albert Pike and still is long after Pike died. From the bottom up, it is dedicated to rituals involving ancient pagan Egyptian religion, including the worship of Isis, Osiris, etc. The Shriners are an intimate affiliate of the Freemasons.

P2 Freemasonry is the Catholic version (Opus Dei and the Mafiia) of WASP ideology Freemasonry. Freemasonry actually started as a mason's union. At some point, it became an occult secret society. The original WASP ideology version allowed no one but WASP Gentiles. At the same time, they allowed no one to supercede the WASP ideology organization. In time, the affiliation, but not necessarily integration of non-WASP Gentiles and Semites (Zionist ideologues), took place for business and political purposes only (Illuminati/Establishment). "Keep your friends close and your enemies closer."

Aside from the historical connection, it is pure speculation as to their connection. Pure speculation is a loose term though, as there is quite a bit of convincing speculation to their connection. Google is going to be the way to go for both pro-connection and anti-connection speculation. Come to your own conclusion. I personly believe there is a connection and that connection is conspiratorial. You can be a mason though and not suspect a thing about the fraternity. There are secrets that remain secrets even to those in the fraternity. JMO.

Because paranoid people are gullible and will believe anything...
or is it gullible people are paranoid...either way CT's believe what they want in spite of the evidence, or lack of evidence...fact be damned.

Hi OrionStars

One or two inaccuracies in your post which I hope you don't mind me pointing out...

Originally posted by OrionStars
For people inquiring on Freemasonry, it is best to read Albert Pike's Morals and Dogma. This book is the heart of Freemasonry though those at 31st degree and down have no input into or first hand experience within the inner sanctum workings of the highest degrees starting at 32nd degree.

Morals and Dogma is a book written by the then head of one part of the Scottish Rite, which is itself an additional series of masonic degrees available to freemasons. It is for and about the Scottish Rite, and has no bearing or relevance to Craft masonry. Furthermore, interesting though Mr. Pike undoubtedly was, his influence does not extend beyond the shores of the US in any meaningful way. It is quite untrue to contend that this book is at the heart of freemasonry. I would recommend the Bible to you as a closer alternative.

Albert Pike was a vocally avowed Luciferian based in Arkansas, specifically Fort Smith and Little Rock.

He was actually a Presbyterian and had nothing to do with Luciferianism (whatever that is). You might be thinking of his infamous and oft misquoted Lucifer phrase from Morals & Dogma. It's been well covered here on ATS but you can also read about it here

He was also the Chief Justice of the KKK Southern Division.

Although to my knowledge there is no direct evidence that Pike was a member of the KKK, even if he was, he died before the KKK became the racist organization it is best known for being.

. It's the top level that changes to Luciferian practices.

What do you mean by top level? To my knowledge there is no 'level' in freemasonry involved in 'Luciferian practices' (whatever they are) and I have never come across any evidence, direct or implied, that freemasonry is anything other than what its official literature says it is.

It was Luciferian before Albert Pike and still is long after Pike died.

You'll have to explain this 'Luciferianism' to me. And why the use of Pike as a milestone? He is quite unknown in most of the masonic world.

From the bottom up, it is dedicated to rituals involving ancient pagan Egyptian religion, including the worship of Isis, Osiris, etc.

From my personal experience I can tell you that this is quite untrue.

P2 Freemasonry is the Catholic version (Opus Dei and the Mafiia) of WASP ideology Freemasonry.

P2 is not even masonic. Just a bunch of corrupt Italians masquerading as freemasons.

The original WASP ideology version allowed no one but WASP Gentiles. At the same time, they allowed no one to supercede the WASP ideology organization.

I have never heard of this 'theory'. The evidence suggests quite the reverse.

In time, the affiliation, but not necessarily integration of non-WASP Gentiles and Semites (Zionist ideologues), took place for business and political purposes only (Illuminati/Establishment). "Keep your friends close and your enemies closer."

This sounds like someone's fantasy of what they would like freemasonry to be, rather than the reality on the ground. Using freemasonry for business and political purposes is strictly against the rules. A poor choice of organization, surely, for people wishing to to so.

reply to post by Trinityman


Hello, Trinityman,

Unfortunately, the history of Freemasonry isn't as benign as you have chosen to paint it. Once it transitioned from a mason craft(artisian) trade union, the occult, coupled with secrecy and occult rituals, turned Freemasonry a highly non-benign organization. The practice of racism and sectarianism caused a great deal of bloodshed on a world basis. The US was not excluded from these malevolent actions by Freemasons of the lower and upper levels. One of the most malevolent groups to arise directly from Freemasonry was the KKK.

Freemasonry a highly secret society. Albert Pike's book became the heart of 32nd degree and up Freemasonry. The rituals practiced at the lower or highest levels will not be found in the Bible. If they are, please point them out.

I know what transpired with Albert Pike in Arkansas. That from spending part of my life in Arkansas. Albert Pike was indeed an avowed Luciferian of no moral character. Albert Pike was indeed Chief Justice of the KKK Southern Division. Albert Pike's statue does indeed stand on federal land in Washington, DC. The national temple of the Freemasons stands on land in Washington, DC.

Top level means 32nd degree Freemasonry and higher.

Freemasonry did indeed transition from a masonry craft trade union to the occult called The Craft. The Craft has nothing to do with masonry or building construction.

Freemasonry is indeed a part of the web of world power and wealth run by the Establishment.

Luciferian is, as the name implies, worship of Lucifer. Replacement of Jesus and God by Lucifer. The highest level leaders have a ritual for this for every new 32nd degree initiate into the higher order of Freemasons.

I am not of any religion. My information is based on life in Arkansas and extensive academic study of all secret societies.

I have probably heard just about every excuse given by Freemasons to deny the reality of what actually occurs inside Freemasonry temples. I did not see any new denials.

Originally posted by OrionStars
reply to post by Trinityman

 

Freemasonry a highly secret society.

One might not even have to leave ATS to 'discover' all the secets of Masonry. On this site I have read oaths and obligations, discriptions of lodge floor work and verbatim interactions between lodge officers and candidates. While I will not confirm the veracity of these postings and discriptions I feel if there were some truly 'sinister' secrets they too would have been documented here and other places with expository glee.

Luciferian is, as the name implies, worship of Lucifer. Replacement of Jesus and God by Lucifer. The highest level leaders have a ritual for this for every new 32nd degree initiate into the higher order of Freemasons.

Luciferian references linked to a diabolical connotation are a realatively recent inference. As has been stated previously on this site Lucifer is not mentioned in the Bible as a substitute or psuedonym for the Devil.

There is no 'replacement ritual' for Jesus Christ in the 32 degree. To replace something it has to be there in the first place. Jesus is nowhere mentioned in any ritual regarding any Masonic degree. To do so would impinge on an individual members belief in a Diety or Saviour of a different theological denonmination.

I have probably heard just about every excuse given by Freemasons to deny the reality of what actually occurs inside Freemasonry temples. I did not see any new denials.

What does occur in a Masonic lodge? As it is obvious that you have never been in one why do you feel your second hand or hearsay evidence supercedes that of others? Where in academia were you 'educated' as to the 'true' activities of Masonic degree work?

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus
[As it is obvious that you have never been in one why do you feel your second hand or hearsay evidence supercedes that of others? Where in academia were you 'educated' as to the 'true' activities of Masonic degree work?

Obviously, his "education" comes from Internet conspiracy websites. To an honest, unbiased researcher, his assertions about Albert Pike, the Scottish Rite degrees, the P2 Lodge, etc., are laughable.

Originally posted by The Phantom
I'm always hearing how the Illuminati is linked or connected or affiliated with freemasonry..

I've never understood why or how this connection is made.. is it just an assumption? Did Freemasons cooperate with the Illuminati at one point in history?

Maybe someone on the board can enlighten me a bit and let me know if freemasonry and the Illuminati are actually cooperating together and if not, why do a lot of people feel like they are?

My friend, in order to find this alleged connection, we would have to describe exactly what the illuminati is and who is involved.
And, since 99.9% of the information out there of who/what the illuminati is, is highly suspect, no one on here (I'm pretty sure) can say with absolute certainty.
People just speculate and because it can't be disproven, assume that they're right.
People are gonna talk about 32 and 33 degree masons and whatnot without knowing what they're talking about.
Those "higher" degrees are only one part of Masonry and not representative of what we're about.
There are many aspects of what Masonry is, people seem to either forget that, or not know in the first place.
Now, honestly, I'm not an expert in Freemasonry, only a student, so keep that in mind.

Many people are gonna say things like, when you get to the 33rd degree of Masonry, you have to do all this devil stuff and rebuke Christ and a whole bunch of nonsense.
Of course, they have no idea what they're talking about.
They also are (more than likely) unaware that the degrees that go to that number, (which are not considered "better" in Masonry, but rather lateral) are from Scottish Rite, which is only, like I said, a part of Freemasonry, and not mandatory and are certainly not a pre-requisite for "special treatment."

And, as previously stated, the information that circulates about the current incarnation of the "illuminaiti" (whatever and whomever they are) are mostly speculation.
And no one can conclusively prove otherwise.
I would, however, love to learn more about them myself.
But I'd rather not learn someone's opinion of them.
Y'know?