Roswell Smoking Gun? - Ramey Message

Originally posted by yeti101

incorrect, Marcel stated in his 1978 interview with stanton friedman & in the 1979 film "UFOs are real" that the debris was that recovered from the ranch.

Marcel's Last Words on Roswell Crash
By Robert Scott Martin
Staff Writer

According to a previously unknown 1981 interview, Jesse Marcel, the Roswell Air Force Base intelligence officer who transformed UFO history when he recovered pieces of an unidentified object in the desert, maintained to the end of his life that the object was no weather balloon.

The infamous photograph of Brigadier General Roger Ramey displaying the wreckage was unquestionably a fake, he said, staged later "strictly for the press."

Marcel wasnt referring to the debris in the photo in 1978 & 1979 interviews?. are you serious? its shows the lengths roswelian belivers will goto to distort the truth to keep their alien spaceship theory intact.

Well if marcel did change his story on his death bed it was only after finding out the stuff in the photo was proven terestrial debris. I'll stick with the first two interviews of the time why would he make such a big mistake back then? . The roswell story changes as people get caught out.

As for Easley i presume your talking about UFO author Kevins Randles claims that Easly told him ET info. Shame Easley was dead and couldn't confirm it. Funny that....

still no Alien witnesses , sorry


[edit on 8-6-2007 by yeti101]

Originally posted by yeti101
Marcel wasnt referring to the debris in the photo in 1978 & 1979 interviews?. are you serious? its shows the lengths roswelian belivers will goto to distort the truth to keep their alien spaceship theory intact.

According to Marcel in his interviews, he stated that the debris was not what he recovered and in addition, I posted affidavits and official documents showing that the debris was staged, faked and not what Marcel recovered.

As for Easley i presume your talking about UFO author Kevins Randles claims that Easly told him ET info. Shame Easley was dead and couldn't confirm it. Funny that....still no Alien witnesses , sorry

Actually, Major Easley was in a prime position to know if there were bodies, not to mention Pappy Henderson (pilot of the B-29 who flew crash-field cargo to Fort Worth) and since General Exon confirmed that a vehicle was in fact, responsible for the Roswell incident, underlines the point that the Roswell incident was the result of an artificial flying vehicle and the properites of the material exclude aircraft and balloons.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kevin Randle Response To Kent Jeffery
"Three Hours That Shook the Press,"

In their article "Three Hours That Shook the Press," Focus, new series Vol. 5, nos. 7-9, September 30, 1990, Shandera and Moore write, "In his interview with Moore (The Roswell Incident) Maj. Marcel maintained that the debris in the two photos of him is the real stuff [Emphasis added]."

So we see that the quotes by Moore and Shandera referring to the number of pictures taken in General Ramey's office, who was in those pictures, and the situation around them, can't be trusted. In fact, Marcel himself has been quoted by a disinterested third party.

Reporter Johnny Mann accompanied Marcel to Roswell in 1980 to interview him about the UFO crash. Mann found the picture of Marcel posed by the weather balloon and told him, "Jess, I gotta tell you. This looks like a weather balloon."

According to Mann, Marcel said, "That's not the stuff I found on the ranch." In other words, the only ones to report that Marcel was photographed with the "real" debris was Moore and Shandera. All evidence to the contrary was apparently overlooked by Kent as he attempted to prove that what was on the floor in Ramey's office was the material found out on the Foster ranch.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Jesse Marcel

Throughout his lifetime Jesse Marcel maintained that what crashed at Roswell in 1947 was no weather balloon. He stated just before his death in a video taped interview "what crashed was not from this world". To say that Marcel was "mistaken" in his description of the debri, was an insult to this mans intelligence and professional knowledge.

www.geocities.com...


"Mac Brazel"

"I am sure what I found was not any weather observation balloon," he said. "But if I find anything else besides a bomb they are going to have a hard time getting me to say anything about it."

In 1994, the Air Force dismissed its own weather balloon story and now we have this:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
WAR V WU A50 NL PD
KALAMAZOO MICH JUL 8
WAR DEPT

INTELLIGENCE DIV WASHDC

****SUGGEST SAUCERS ARE RADAR TARGET FOR WEATHER OBSERVATION ...****
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



[edit on 8-6-2007 by skyeagle409]

Marcel couldnt even remember the year the roswell incident took place. Doesnt add much credibility to his recollections. Easley was dead when randle made these claims. The same kevin randle who has brought us numerous false testimony from the likes of Kaufmann. All Exons information is second hand. He saw nothing himself.

Most of what Randle/Schmitt have on Easley is weak and there are no true facts. Since Randle has no record of the interviews (other than the one audiotape which states Easley was sworn to secrecy - not uncommon for a Provost Marshall at a nuclear bomber base), the whole Easley story can be considered rumor, innuendo, and fabrication of facts from bits and pieces of information that may or may not have occurred in early July 1947. Randle’s statements about the "deathbed confession" are contemptible. Randle/Schmitt seem more interested in their agenda than in being concerned for Easley's well being or quote him fairly. In my opinion, Randle/Schmitt shamefully used Easley. While Easley was alive, Randle/Schmitt referred to him as an unnamed person and did not attribute much to him. After his death, they attribute all forms of statements made by him in The Truth About the UFO crash at Roswell and all the other books. One must question the integrity of these individuals when one views this process of "story telling".

Marcel did maintain it was ET debris but he was wrong.

heres a nice link to let people know the true story of roswell.

members.aol.com...



[edit on 8-6-2007 by yeti101]

Originally posted by yeti101
Marcel couldnt even remember the year the roswell incident took place. Doesnt add much credibility to his recollections. [/qluote]

Forgetting dates is nothing new, but we do have the original press release.

Easley was dead when randle made these claims. The same kevin randle who has brought us numerous false testimony from the likes of Kaufmann.

Major Easley was quite alive when he was inteviewed by Kevin Randle just before his death.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Interviews

The testimony of Edwin Easley, himself a retired colonel who told me the craft was extraterrestrial.

The testimony of Patrick Saunders, himself a retired colonel who wrote on the flyleaf to The Truth about the UFO Crash at Roswell that "Here's the truth and I still haven't told anybody anything!" which he then signed.

And the testimony of Arthur Exon, himself a retired brigadier general, who talked of two distinct sites, and who talked of the people at Wright-Patterson who had examined the debris and bodies of the alien creatures.

Kevin Randle
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------






[edit on 8-6-2007 by skyeagle409]

Originally posted by yeti101

members.aol.com...

May I suggest that you don't use Tim Printy as a reference.

I took Tim Printy apart a few months ago to where he was forced him to make a correction on his own website when he sought to debunk a crewmember's testimony on the Roswell incident by claiming that the crewmember was wrong because Tim thought the C-54 could not land at Kirtland AFB.

Tim Printy thought the runway was too short for the C-54 because he didn't do his homework. Had he done so, he would have found that not only was the C-54 operating out of Kirtland AFB from time to time, but the larger and heavier B-29 was capable of operating out of Kirtland AFB as well. If Tim Printy had checked, he would have found that those aircraft flew components of the first atomic bombs out of Kirtland AFB, NM.

Another Roswell debunker, "Access-Denied," was in on the fight and when the smoke had cleared, Tim Printy was forced to do what he had to do and you can read his correction on his own website here and note his correction is in red as you come to it as you read on down the page.

members.aol.com...

I might add that Lost_Shaman was in on the debate as well and in addition, I have pointed out to Tim Printy of other serious errors on his website.


[edit on 8-6-2007 by skyeagle409]

Originally posted by yeti101
do you have anyone who claims to have seen the bodies themselves?

That's the rub. People need to think about this a little like a detective.

How many people both at the time and over the years would have access to the Roswell stuff, if it really was an alien spacecraft and there were aliens around? Hundreds? Thousands?

With all this stuff happening, somebody's writing reports and sending letters and telegrams and taking dictation and making copies. Memos and reports and shipping invoices and bills and equipment requisition records and personnel orders and transfer papers and thousands of other things. Just how much paperwork do you think might be generated by the crash of an alien saucer? How about a mountain of paperwork? And essentially none of that can be found?

And we can't find one official member of the recovery team or preliminary analysis team to step up an say, "Here are my credentials. I was a scientist on the team. We definitively determined that the ship that crashed was a time machine from the year 2792 and there were small humans on board from that time. Here are some other specific names, dates, and locations. Here are some sketches. All of this stuff can be cross-referenced and verified."

No, instead, all we have to show for this event, which might have been the most important military and cultural event in history, are a few questionable memos, a lot of foggy memories and a lot of "I knew a guy who said he saw alien-sized wooden crates in a truck." Wonderful.

Oh, except for Philip Corso, who said not only did he see the actual aliens in Roswell, years later on a completely different assignment, a Lieutenant General pulled some incredible alien artifacts out of an old filing cabinet and told him to give them to contacts in private industry. All while he was single-handedly saving the free world from the Commies.

You know, it's one thing for the military to be able to keep some classified stuff secret. They're pretty good at it, and can keep it up for quite a while. But it's another thing to just not have anything that important to cover up.

The Roswell case seems more and more like the latter. The years go by and nobody new steps forward. No more of the possible tens of thousands of documents pop up. It all seems more and more like the stupid mistake that just got out of hand.

Originally posted by SuicideVirus
The Roswell case seems more and more like the latter. The years go by and nobody new steps forward. No more of the possible tens of thousands of documents pop up. It all seems more and more like the stupid mistake that just got out of hand.

The mistake was on the part of the military that began when it initiated the Roswell cover-up. Now, it has been shown that all of the military's cover stories for its initial press release, are false.

Major Easley was quite alive when he was inteviewed by Kevin Randle just before his death.

it was never tape recorded though was it? and the information supposedly acquired not released until Easley died. I dont find Randle credible enough to believe his story.

again still no witnesses to the aliens.

[edit on 8-6-2007 by yeti101]

Originally posted by skyeagle409

Originally posted by SuicideVirus
The Roswell case seems more and more like the latter. The years go by and nobody new steps forward. No more of the possible tens of thousands of documents pop up. It all seems more and more like the stupid mistake that just got out of hand.

The mistake was on the part of the military that began when it initiated the Roswell cover-up. Now, it has been shown that all of the military's cover stories for its initial press release, are false.

The military has been known to make mistakes, and the flying disc press release was a doozy. But in no way does that mistake increase the chance that the "cover-up" involved a flying disc and aliens.

Oh, here's a more scientific analysis of the Memo, if anybody's interested:
www.scientificexploration.org...

Originally posted by SuicideVirus

The military has been known to make mistakes, and the flying disc press release was a doozy. But in no way does that mistake increase the chance that the "cover-up" involved a flying disc and aliens.

In this case, flying saucers were flying all over the area before, and after the Roswell incident, and one was seen flying low overhead into the direction where the crash debris were later found and reported before the military released its own report.

It wasn't a mistake because both Colonel Blanchard and Marcel were later promoted and in the military, you can't expect a promotion over serious errors, especially in those days..

Originally posted by yeti101
it was never tape recorded though was it? and the information supposedly acquired not released until Easley died. I dont find Randle credible enough to believe his story.

I find Kevin Randle credible on his Roswell investigations and bodies have been mentioned by others as well.


[edit on 8-6-2007 by skyeagle409]

I find Kevin Randle credible on his Roswell investigations

well im afraid your in the minority, even most ufologists think hes not credible.

Stanton friedman sights 38 false claims by Randle. Point 22 in the link deals with Easley & #25 with Exon. www.roswellfiles.com...

[edit on 8-6-2007 by yeti101]

Originally posted by yeti101
Marcel did maintain it was ET debris but he was wrong.

So who do I believe, yeti101?

Marcel? He was a military man, who saw the stuff, held it, felt, played with it and claimed until his deathbed that it was not of this Earth.

Or, do I believe you? You weren't there, and unless I know your age, may not have even been born when it all happened.

Right...

tezzajw, marcel stated himself the photograph taken in rameys office was some of the material retrived. Why dont you belive him about that? When the material was proven to be balloon debris the story changed.

He never claimed knowledge of alien bodies or another crash site. That was added by other people.

Contrary to the myth peddled by roswelians marcel never had any experience first hand with balloons or radar reflectors of any kind. He was no expert on the material retreived.



[edit on 8-6-2007 by yeti101]

Originally posted by yeti101

I find Kevin Randle credible on his Roswell investigations

well im afraid your in the minority, even most ufologists think hes not credible.

Stanton friedman sights 38 false claims by Randle. Point 22 in the link deals with Easley...

Now, what did Stanton Friedman say about what Easley's daughter and what she told him"

& #25 with Exon. www.roswellfiles.com...

Let's hear what General Exon had to say about the bodies.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Alien Bodies
(Sandow)

[Exon spontaneously bringing up Roswell crash after being asked about rumors of little bodies at Wright-Patterson] "Yes, I have. In fact, I know people that were involved in photographing some of the residue from the New Mexico affair near Roswell."

[He was told about bodies by] "...people I have known who were involved with that."

(R&S)

"There was another location where ... apparently the main body of the spacecraft was ... where they did say there were bodies ... They were all found, apparently, outside the craft itself but were in fairly good condition. In other words, they weren't broken up a lot"
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Originally posted by yeti101
He never claimed knowledge of alien bodies or another crash site. That was added by other people.

Apparently, there are those, including General Exon himself, who have confirmed the second crash site.

Contrary to the myth peddled by roswelians marcel never had any experience first hand with balloons or radar reflectors of any kind. He was no expert on the material retreived.

You don't need to be an expert to differentiate between ordinary balsa wood and tin foil, any school child could have done that, but according to Marcel, the debris he recovered was not of this world and he maintained that position until his death, which once again, means that the debris Marcel posed with was not what he recovered on the Foster ranch.

As time goes on, it is becoming apparent that the Roswell incident is no myth. The following was taken from a video tape of Jesse Marcel on the "Larry King Live" show on CNN.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"LARRY KING LIVE" Show

Jesse Marcel, SR Video

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JESSE MARCEL, SR., 509TH BOMB GROUP:
One thing I was certain of, being familiar with all air activities, that it was not a weather balloon nor an aircraft nor a missile. It was something else, of which -- we didn't know what it was. There were just fragments strewn all over the area. So we proceeded to pick up the parts.

A lot of it had a lot of little numbers with symbols that -- to me, I call them hieroglyphics because I could not interpret them. They could not be read. They were just like symbols of something that meant something. These little numbers could not be broken, could not be burned. I even tried to burn that, would not burn. See, that stuff weighs nothing. It's not any thicker than tinfoil in a pack of cigarettes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: So the obvious, Jesse, (JR.) is what do you believe?

MARCEL, JR.: Well, I think it's something very extraordinary. I don't know what it was. But since that time, I -- and thinking more about this, I can't help but believe that it was something that came from another civilization, much like a space probe that we're sending to other planets right now and -- because the material was unique, like I say.

And I do know it was not a weather balloon or even a mogul (ph) balloon, like the Air Force later said, because the material was totally different.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


[edit on 8-6-2007 by skyeagle409]

Originally posted by yeti101
tezzajw, marcel stated himself the photograph taken in rameys office was some of the material retrived. Why dont you belive him about that?

The Army claimed in their press release that they captured a flying disc. Why don't you believe them about that?

Originally posted by yeti101
tezzajw, marcel stated himself the photograph taken in rameys office was some of the material retrived. Why dont you belive him about that?

Because, Marcel stated right up to his death that the debris he posed with was not what he recovered from the Foster ranch.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Interview with Jesse Marcel, SR.

Jesse Marcel---The infamous photograph of Brigadier General Roger Ramey displaying the wreckage was unquestionably a fake, staged later "strictly for the press."
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Jesse Marcel's statement corroborates the affidavit of Colonel Thomas Dubose, the other officer who posed with the debris, and his affidavit is as follows:

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Brig. Gen. Thomas Jefferson Dubose
and the Weather Balloon Cover Story

His Affidavit

7) "The material shown in the photographs taken in Maj. Gen. Ramey's office was a weather balloon. The weather balloon explanation for the material was a cover story to divert the attention of the press."

Signed: T. J. Dubose
Date: 9/16/91
Signature witnessed by:
Linda R. Split
Notary Public, State of Florida
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And, their testimonies are reaffirmed by this document, which provides a picture as to where the suggestion came from to use a weather balloon device as a cover-up in the first place.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
WAR V WU A50 NL PD
KALAMAZOO MICH JUL 8
WAR DEPT

INTELLIGENCE DIV WASHDC

****SUGGEST SAUCERS ARE RADAR TARGET FOR WEATHER OBSERVATION ...****
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The "icing-on-the-cake" comes from the Air Force itself when it dropped its claim that a weather balloon was responsible for the Roswell incident, and as you can plainly see, the object is from a weather balloon.

To sum it all up, the military's weather balloon claim is now history, thanks to statements made by Marcel and Dubose, the official document suggesting the military use of a weather balloon device as a means of a cover-up, and the fact that in 1994, the Air Force dropped its false weather balloon story, but as you can see, the debris in the photos is from a weather balloon device, which means that the debris in the photos was as Marcel had stated, "faked" and not what he recovered from the Foster ranch.


[edit on 9-6-2007 by skyeagle409]

Originally posted by SuicideVirus

Originally posted by yeti101
do you have anyone who claims to have seen the bodies themselves?

That's the rub. People need to think about this a little like a detective.

Exactly, and that is why I went to the Air Force, which supplied me with Project Mogul documentation that proved that no Project Mogul balloon flight took place on June 4, 1947.

How many people both at the time and over the years would have access to the Roswell stuff, if it really was an alien spacecraft and there were aliens around? Hundreds? Thousands?

Actually, less than a hundred, if that many. Senator Barry Goldwater tried to access a certain area on Wright-Patterson AFB, but was turned down. The following is what he wrote:

BARRY GOLDWATER
Arizona
Committees:
Aeronautical & Space Sci. Armed Services
Preparedness Inv Subcommit

UNITED STATES SENATE
Tactical Air Power Subcomm
Washington D.C. 20510
N. S. Naval Petroleum Reserves Subcommittee

March 28, 1975

Mr.Shlomo Arnon U.C.L.A. Experimental College 308 Westwood Plaza Los Angeles, California 90024

Dear Mr.Arnon:

The subject of UFOs is one that has interested me for some time. About ten or twelve years ago I made an effort to find out what was in the building at Wright Patterson Air Force Base where the information is stored that has been collected by the Air Force, and I was understandably denied this request.

It is still classified above Top Secret. I have, however, heard that there is a plan under way to release some, if not all, of this material in the near future. I'm just as anxious to see this material as you are, and I hope we will not have to wait too much longer.

Sincerely.

Barry Goldwater

With all this stuff happening, somebody's writing reports and sending letters and telegrams and taking dictation and making copies. Memos and reports and shipping invoices and bills and equipment requisition records and personnel orders and transfer papers and thousands of other things. Just how much paperwork do you think might be generated by the crash of an alien saucer? How about a mountain of paperwork? And essentially none of that can be found?

According to the GAO, important documents relating to the Roswell incident, and Roswell AAF in particular, are missing or were destroyed without authorization.

ALBUQUERQUE, N.M. (AP) -- Key military documents on the so-called Roswell Incident, cited by UFO buffs as an alien crash, were apparently destroyed without authorization decades ago, a congressman said Saturday.

Rep. Steve Schiff of New Mexico said a General Accounting Office report shed no new light on the 1947 crash and showed that important documents are missing. Documents that should have provided more information were destroyed,'' Schiff said. ``The military cannot explain who destroyed them or why.''

Schiff said the GAO estimates the information was destroyed more than 40 years ago.

It seems that as the years roll on by, the more that we are learning of the Roswell cover-up.

The Roswell case seems more and more like the latter. The years go by and nobody new steps forward. No more of the possible tens of thousands of documents pop up. It all seems more and more like the stupid mistake that just got out of hand.

Since Marcel and Blanchard were both promoted after the Roswell incident, there was no mistake on their part. You don't make gross errors in judgement and expect to get promoted in the military, especially during those years, so what they released in the press, was a valid report on the recovery of a flying saucer.

On another note, scientist and engineers at White Sands, New Mexico, were stating that the flying saucers they were tracking and observing overhead were in fact, extraterrestrial flying saucers, and they include the Project Mogul and Skyhook balloon teams as well.

The scientist noted that they have observed flying saucers hovering 200 miles above the earth.

HOW SCIENTISTS TRACKED A FLYING SAUCER
by
Commander Robert B. McLaughlin, USN

In its January issue TRUE said that the flying saucers are real and interplanetary. Its story was widely supported by the nation's press and radio. TRUE's findings are here confirmed by Commander McLaughlin, a rocket expert at White Sands Proving Ground, who worked independently of this magazine's investigation.

He reveals how a troup of Navy men and scientists tracked a flying disk with a precision instrument and tells of flights he and others witnessed.

[edit on 9-6-2007 by skyeagle409]