Win 250,000 Points: What Are The Top-5 9/11 Conspiracies?

Still not called I see. Did I mention my points come with a chart?



If I win lemme know and gimme time to brush up my points and links and the chart. It could be folded up in one's wallet to show the elevator people.

I only hope my evidence isn't TOO good. (gulp.)

[edit on 22-2-2007 by Caustic Logic]

I guess I'm out of my league here, or just thought it was supposed to be as simple as I naturally am.

I could try some visual aid though...a link to my own PP presentation?

Geez...as well, it's been fun anyway, it's hard not to keep doing new posts on different 5 issues...

For now...I'm sitting on my hands...and waiting to see if SO says anyone is getting ANY closer.

2l8

Excellent!!

When you see how much time lapsed between the planes going off course and the jets being scrambled, then actually told where to go....

WTF?!

How can anybody not see something goofy here?

People NEED to know about the war games. There was nothing routine about it,

Originally posted by Caustic Logic

Did I mention my points come with a chart?

Originally posted by Caustic Logic

Wow, the big guns are comming out now.

Maybe I should bump up my presentation a notch or two, just to make my theory more presentable.

With 250,000 points I could; I could; well I don't know what I would do with them anyways.

I give up.





Just kidding, but my theory does come with animated graphics.

The Grand Masonic Hailing Sign of Distress.

It is given by raising both hands toward heaven, with each arm forming the angle of a square, or a 90 degree angle. The arms are then lowered in three distinct motions to the sides.

www.ephesians5-11.org...

"O Lord, my God, is there no help for the Widow's Son?"

www.ephesians5-11.org...

The Qur'an [9.11]
But if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, they are your brethren in faith; and We make the communications clear for a people who know.

etext.virginia.edu.../modeng&data=/texts/english/modeng/parsed&tag=public&part=9&division=div1

[edit on 23-2-2007 by In nothing we trust]

1. Never heard a good explanation on who profited from the options trading.

2.US Army bases went from opened to closed posts in summer of 2001.

3.Very little mention of the NORAD exercise going on at the same time.

4. Building did not fall like expected too.

5. Why didn't these huge well funded agencies follow up on the info they had before hand.

for youse in the competition and readers alike,

there is a great article i found today, 24 feb '07, addressing the topic
"Reasons to Doubt the Official Story about the 9/11 Attacks"

the original content is at: www.opednews.com...

~~~~~~~~~

Of particular "Point On" is item 5 of the section The Administration Ignored Threats...

...FBI headquarters totally ignored urgent warnings by FBI field offices regarding Middle Eastern men attending flight schools in different parts of the country.
On July 10, 2001, Phoenix [AZ] FBI agent Kenneth Williams sent a memo stating this concern to FBI headquarters....

anyhow, the whole article outline might aid in your sifting thru the data points of the obvious govt 'CYA' cover-up
& how these agencies got bested by a cadre of zealots the govt thought were easily tagged & guided klutzes ...

[edit on 24-2-2007 by St Udio]

I decided to test this idea IRL, so I was on the bus today when some people were talking about 9/11 All I had to say was

"And how many skyscrapers have completely collapsed in history due to fire?"

It stunned the whole bus! It was completely awesome! So many people said, "Wow I havent thought about that before!"

I think thats all that needs to be said.

Hello all...

I'd like to thank everyone for their participation in a very productive and engaging exercise.

You have developed what is essentially an excellent summary of many of the most compelling artifacts of 9/11 conspiracy speculation, theories, and tantalizing factoids. Everyone has played an important role in exchanging data points and ideas in the effort to condense the issue into a concise list of plausible issue.

There is a lot of material here... much of it not in the format I was hoping for, but compelling none the less. I've narrowed the specific posts down to the list below. These all represent the kind of information artifacts we need to define and refine, but on first glance, I'm not certain there is a singular post to covers all the points I'm looking for.

Next steps...

1) Each of the members below will receive a point reward for their efforts.

2) I'm going to spend some more time (not until Wednesday, important stuff brewing tomorrow) looking through each of these posts

3) I'd like to also engage you (members) to consider how to refine the points in these posts to end up with our goal, 5 items you could mention with ease and aplomb at a mixed gathering.


In no order other than (somewhat) reverse chronology...


Pistons
www.abovetopsecret.com...

2l82sk8
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Reality Hurts
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Athenion
www.abovetopsecret.com...

nick7261
www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Caustic Logic
www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Ghost01
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Outrageo
www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Essedarius
www.abovetopsecret.com...

CameronFox
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Odium
www.abovetopsecret.com...

ViolatoR
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Pistons
www.abovetopsecret.com...

mikesingh
www.abovetopsecret.com...

subz
www.abovetopsecret.com...

timeless test
www.abovetopsecret.com...

whatukno
www.abovetopsecret.com...

sp00n1
www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...

mazzroth
www.abovetopsecret.com...

come on

1.George

2.Bush

3.Hates

4.Black

5.People


didnt even make it??????


I thought it was close

Congratulations to those who made SkepticOverlord's list!!! You combined both intelligence and effort. I frequently lack in intelligence and effort, and I am working on both.

God Bless You in Finding the Truth!!!

F ailure to stop the Pentagon strike using the best airforce in the world.
A llowing the Bin Laden contingent to fly out during the airspace lockdown.
K eeping photographic evidence under wraps for so long.
E mulation in flame does not melt steel Chemex does.
D ocuments confirming suspects identity found almost immediately.

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
3) I'd like to also engage you (members) to consider how to refine the points in these posts to end up with our goal, 5 items you could mention with ease and aplomb at a mixed gathering.

Ah! some feedback! Will do! Aplomb...

The top 5 9/11 Conspiracies in this order are. (and how to get people thinking about it effectivly)

Ever wonder how odd it is that the Assistant director of the FBI John O'Neill, leaves his post, and takes a job at the WTC, just to unfortunatly die on his second day at the job?

1) 1997 - Assistant director of the FBI and an expert on terrorism John O'Neill forecasts the possibility of an organized attack and said that terrorists were already operating in the U.S.

The reason this plays into the whole 9/11 conspiracy theory is that this man warned the government about an organized attack in the united states. For reasons relatively unknown he retires from the FBI and takes a job at the World Trade Center. The day before the attacks. Either he knew something and was placed at the WTC to be killed or this is the absolute unluckiest man in the world.

September 10, 2001 - John O'Neill starts his first day of work at the WTC; 9/11 - John O'Neill is feared dead on his second day on the job at the WTC; September 21, 2001 - The body of John O'Neill is recovered from the WTC)
John P. O'Neill - Wikipedia

How long did you sign the lease for on this place? Would you consider signing a 99 year lease? Why not? It seemed to work out realy well for Larry Silverstien?

2) July 2001 - Larry Silverstein, owner of the WTC 7, signs a 99-year lease for the rest of the WTC just six weeks before the attacks.

This man is in his sixties! There is not a person alive that takes a 99 year lease out on anything. When was the last time you have ever taken out a lease on something for the rest of your life? Now the insurance thing is not exactly a part of the conspiracy because the WTC was a known terrorist target. But the suspicious thing is that there is no one, no one that takes out a 99 year lease in their sixties!
CBS News

Is'nt it cool that they can successfully take off, fly and land an aircraft remotely now? How unfortunate that this technology wasnt in place on Sep. 11 huh? Oh wait it was.

3) August 25, 2001 - Raytheon and the U.S. Air Force successfully auto lands a pilot-less FedEx Boeing 727 six times at Holloman AFB, NM using a military GPS landing system that will enable ground control to take control of a hijacked airplane and force land it.
Raytheon Press Release

This one plays into the theory that the hijackers did not have adequate training in flying the types of aircraft that hit the WTC buildings. I don't believe that after a few weeks of flight training that these terrorists could possibly have figured out the controls of these aircraft well enough to have such pinpoint attacks on these two buildings.

Ever wonder where our fighters were on Sep. 11?

4) September 9, 2001 - NNORAD conducts operation "Northern Vigilance," planned months in advance, which deploys fighter jets to the Alaskan region to monitor a Russian air force exercise.
NORAD Press Release

This stands out in my head. At any time there are doesns of military aircraft that are on patroll in the skies over our heads. It amaises me that this timing was so bad. That at this time our best defense is gone! And for the Russians no less?

How lucky it was that FEMA was on site so quickly for Sep. 11, heck they were there so fast they were already in place the day before. Now thats efficiant.

5) September 10, 2001 - The Massachusetts Urban Search and Rescue Task Force -- one of the first teams deployed to the WTC -- arrives late in the evening and goes into action the following morning on 9/11 according to task force member Tom Kenney on a CBS interview that aired on Sept. 13th.
OEM Press Release

I will refer you to the title of Penn & Teller's show on A&E for this one. What a nice coincidence that FEMA just happened to be training in the neighborhood and a mass amount of staff and equipment arrive in New York the day before the attacks.

There are many other quite plausible theories out there and many of them have decent merit. But in my opinion if you want to get to the bottom of something you have to A go where the money is. And B find the one or two guys that have either the worst or the best luck during something like this.

Awesome job on all of the good points and links posted by everyone. I even loved the attempts at comedy and some of the skeptical views.

Here's one more thing to think on that has always bugged me. I was in the services and worked in the intelligence group for my battalion. It's nothing too spectacular and I only had secret level clearance. However, what I did learn from working with the high ranking brass was what constituted national security and what didn't.

Think on this one. Why did the president and vice president refuse to swear under oath for the so-called 'investigation'? Why did they HAVE to be together and why in a private room? Why is anything being held back from these attacks?

The argument of national security simply cannot apply here. To present the truth of the details of these attacks will hurt our country how? Why was there top secret documents that only two members of the committee were allowed to view? Why ANY top secret documents about these attacks?

There truly should not be any classified documents on the events of that day other than any high end responses and/or manuevers that we would have used. From what I can see that didn't happen so thus, there should not be anything that can be withheld from the public.

Just something that has been gnawing at me for a while.

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
I'd like to also engage you...

My Lord, is that a proposal?

Ahem....ok, joking aside...

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
... engage you (members) to consider how to refine the points in these posts to end up with our goal, 5 items you could mention with ease and aplomb at a mixed gathering.

So, we've gotten off the elevator, having arrived at the penthouse for a cocktail party consisting of average everyday people, and need to casually discuss the 5 major flaws of the official story of 911, and/or the 5 issues leading up to 911. Anyone else frustrated?

Not with S.O. but with themselves? I'm downright irritated with myself and feel braindead.

What is difficult for me is that first I'm thinking elevator conversation, but then I see where S. O. did ask for evidentiary links, and then a seperate contest/challenge for 5 events leading up to 911...

... and just when I get the pre and during/post 911 conversational points-finally with links as well- done... I find I haven't produced the desired results even though I've mixed it up a little each time.

It's just hard to know when dismissing one of my favorite factoids for another trying to refine my entries, am I choosing a good factoid, but also dismissing a good one as well-defeating the purpose of changing things at all! YK?

*sigh* I'm not intellectual enough to worry about talking over people's heads, however I am still more than the average person bargains for in conversation generally. I am trying to stay concise, but sound educated enough on the subject without sounding like a nut. it's a difficult balance...and trying to narrow things down to 5... in two seperate categories...ugh...I'm just boggled at this point.

So, the point of my rambling post is, though I am working on refining my points, or choosing new ones, I would also be happy to possibly collaborrate with someone who is on the same page as I nearly, but with enough difference that we can make a difference combining our work than presenting it alone.

u2u me with any proposals (...for work to be combined. My husband already has me otherwise spoken for-sorry. )

edited for being

[edit on 27-2-2007 by 2l82sk8]

Please don't forget this one:

BBC News Reports Building 7 collapse 23 Minutes before it collapses.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

by r4758

It's hot, hot, hot!

BBC reports that WTC7 has collapsed (23 minutes prior to the collapse) and then the New York correspondent confirms that it's has collapsed while it's still visible out the window behind her.


[edit on 27-2-2007 by Benevolent Heretic]

You know there are a lot of facts that don’t add up when looking at the official story of 9/11. Most intriguing, and in contrast to the “official story,” are facts such as...

Why yes this is a new dress...oh thank you I thought it was nice too...no it's not Versace......Paris who? Brittany who? No, we're discussing 9/11. Ok, nice to meet you too. Yes maybe we'll talk more later...

Anyway as I was saying...The WTC towers collapsed demolition explosive style, instead of a typical burning or structurally damaged building indicating explosives and planning were involved.

Oh, hello nice to meet you. We were discussing 9/11. Nine-eleven? Sept 11, 2001? Terrorist attack? Yes, this is a new dress. Oh thank you. No, it's not Versace...

Also, there was molten metal at the WTC towers and not even jet fueled fires are hot enough to melt metal. Oh am I, now? Well, thank you, I'll be sure not to spontaneously combust or melt any metal tonight.

No, I'm not flirting with your date, I was just answering his comment. No, I'm not even interested him or anyone here. No, I don't think I'm better than you... or too good for him...I'm married, I just...ok, well you go have another drink -good plan.

So, where were the rest of us on the 9/11 subject?

Ah yes, the WTC, thank you, well thats just the starting point. Besides the WTC towers 1 and 2, and let's not forget 7, there is the fact the Pentagon confiscated and delayed releasing tapes for an unreasonably long time, and when they did, it cast more doubt than it proved anything of the official story that a hijacked plane had crashed into it, as it still appeared as though it had been more of a missile strike.

No, I don't want to know about how hard your missle strikes...

So where was I? No, thank you I have a drink right her in my right hand...whcih I have a tendancy to swing about as I talk...see it sloshing about?

So, there are facts and reasons the attack was so successful and our response so slow too, as there were war games and terrorist exercises happening in New York on 9/11 keeping those who would be, and should be, responding the actual threat unable to tell if the actual events happening were part of such war game exercises, and those who were responding were going after the ghost flt 77.

Oh, and yes, your dress is nice too, oh it is Versace-good for you. What did I mean by what? Okie Dokie then, nice meeting you too.

Anyway, as I was saying gentlemen... gentlemen? Hello, my eyes and the rest of my face are much a bit higher than that, and I promise you there's no hidden microphone hidden between my breasts...

No, actually I'm only 5'8, but I do have 2 inch heals on. Oh thank you, no I've never given my ankles much thought... oh, 'legs all the way up to my ass', I've never eard that one before, but yes I am 'all legs'....now where was I?

How about the fact there was also Intel given to the President in April of 2001 that revealed Al Qaeda planned to attack the US in the Summer of 2001. Then there were updates. It was all apparently ignored, or didn’t warrant any attention as if it was known, and if not planned by some of those who may have known, at least allowed.

No, thank you, I'm still nursing my Shirly Temple here, I don't really drink. No, I AM being serious...I just slosh it around in punctuation of what I'm saying.

So, then there's Flight 93. It crashed indeed, but the way the plane's parts were strewn over an 8 mile area implies it was was falling apart before it crashed, indicating it was shot down.

Are you crashing? Are you being shot down? What? What are you talking about?

Now where were we? Oh, no thank you, it really was just a Shirly Temple, and my eyes really are up here, and no, I'm not shooting you down, I'm just married and apparently my legs are longer than most of your attention spans are!!!

Someone save me from cocktail parties from hell.

OK, so I was bored and envisioning a cocktail party too vivdly I suppose, but while reading what SO wanted for Gorilla911 about facts socially suitable for every day cocktail party, and concise and simple enough for the average joe on an elevator, I just got lost in my own head...

I'll be serious tomorrow...no I wont be around tomorrow...damn!

No, co-conspirator offers yet either.

what a day.

edit dit edit


[edit on 27-2-2007 by 2l82sk8]

I had a chat the other night with a friend of mine who is the perfect "Joe Citizen.":

1)
He is not into conspiracies at all.

2)
Deep, theoretical discussion isn't really his thing, but he is intelligent.

3)
He was deeply disturbed and angered by the events of 9/11.


We went around for a few moments on the melting point of steel and on how the buildings fell and, soon enough, I could feel him start to check out of the conversation.

Then he said this:



I just don't want to believe that our government could do that. I can't think about it.



Then he abruptly changed the subject.

Read that quote again, because THAT is why the average citizen doesn't join the truth movement. It's not because they aren't aware of thermite and Silverstein and NORAD and the PRESIDENT, it's because they don't want to be.

(Mind you, I never mentioned the government to him. I talked about steel and the freefall collapse...I said there was something fishy...that's it. He filled in the rest.)

So the problem is that by creating a "sales pitch" that includes thermite and Silverstein and NORAD and the PRESIDENT, we are grinding our heal into Joe Citizen's most gaping wound...and when they say "I don't know about this" our response is "well we must not be GRINDING hard enough."

We need to stick with the basics...the physics.
The fact that things don't quite add up.

Give a foundation...trust the inconsistencies... let them supply the curiosity.
It has to be that way with something this touchy.

As was the case with my friend, even spoon-feeding the most basic facts will sometimes be too much...but it has a much greater chance of success than the GRIND technique, I believe that.

As soon as a "sales pitch" ventures into the cast of thousands that many conspirators believe pulled 9/11 off...you'll lose. You'll be spouting facts about Black Ops to a room full of cheering "truthers" while all the "regular folk" file out the back door.

Originally posted by Essedarius

Then he said this:

I just don't want to believe that our government could do that. I can't think about it.

Then he abruptly changed the subject.

Read that quote again, because THAT is why the average citizen doesn't join the truth movement. It's not because they aren't aware of thermite and Silverstein and NORAD and the PRESIDENT, it's because they don't want to be.

Very good observation and something - perhaps the main thing - to think of when crafting points. How to overcome this? I disagree tho on just focusing on the physics, partly 'cause I'm not scientist enough to know good claims from bad very well but also 'cause Without the ability to make the leap, they'll just stumble over how al Qaeda rigged up thermite demolitions. I recommend a Zen approach where we don't need to panic - yes, our gov. is quite possibly evil, but it's just another fact of life. Show them how to live with that awareness in sanity and maybe they can handle it. It's a perception shift with multiple parts, not just "hard truth and you're on your own in a harsh new reality."

Originally posted by Caustic Logic
Without the ability to make the leap, they'll just stumble over how al Qaeda rigged up thermite demolitions.

I think that getting the average U.S. citizen to agree that the destruction of the Twin Towers was a controlled demolition, regardless of the perpetrator, would be an absolute COUP.

The BIG leap for most is from "terrorist attack" to "controlled demolition." I think the jump from "controlled demolition" to "government involvement" is much smaller.

I recommend a Zen approach where we don't need to panic - yes, our gov. is quite possibly evil, but it's just another fact of life.

I see what you're saying, but I don't think people can be told that. They have to come to that conclusion on their own. Try to play that card too early and people will just fold and walk away.

You have to take into account that most citizens subconciously slot "conspiracy theorist" into the same schematic as "paranoid psychotic."

That's just my opinion, but I think the lack of progress mainstreaming these ideas over the past few years is testament that I'm not too far off.