Is a lazy U.S. Losing it's edge in Space?

Originally posted by Cyrus
the x-37 is something i have been dreaming of knowing about...

The X-37 is Boeing's Space Plane and the X-40a is a similar vehicle... officially not operational yet. I would love to know what Lockheed's version looks like...

Boeing X-37


Boeing X-40a- (actual flight picture)

Originally posted by Cyrus
intelgurl, your name is more than suitable to some1 of such high intellectual aqcuity, *takes off his kgb ski mask and takes a deep bow*
cordially
Cyrus

Bolshoye spasibo!

Originally posted by intelgurl

Originally posted by Cyrus
the x-37 is something i have been dreaming of knowing about...

The X-37 is Boeing's Space Plane and the X-40a is a similar vehicle... officially not operational yet. I would love to know what Lockheed's version looks like...

Boeing X-37


Boeing X-40a- (actual flight picture)

Originally posted by Cyrus
intelgurl, your name is more than suitable to some1 of such high intellectual aqcuity, *takes off his kgb ski mask and takes a deep bow*
cordially
Cyrus

Bolshoye spasibo!

i love the way u get your research done....it's fascinating to see you turn up with the "one step ahead" results
i think we should open a black_research-related topic....i have some royally-classed resource material(sites....images from these sites, media updates), but mostly p2p retrieved info. waiting in line for just that subject
or have i said to much?
*hears' door broken down as area51-based rednecks invade*

maybe it's the fact that they don't ahve to try and beat the reds nowadays, or maybe its the fact that they spend most their money on military and israel so what are they using to develope space stuff?

Lotsa good info and thoughts on this one.I guess we are just gonna hafta wait for the technologies to get here when they get here.Its slo-paced but what can one do?

Originally posted by intelgurl
Ok, these are all good thoughts - Half of the responses, all for differing reasons seem to say that the U.S. space program is either inept, lazy or disorganized...
The other half seem to think that the U.S. has black operations in space.
So here's another question...
Do you think that the US has a secret space program and if so to what extent, ie: Space planes, secret space stations ???
Obviously Russia seems to think so, below is a link to an article in Pravda:
Pravda: The USA has been working on secret, new-generation space planes

Thoughts anyone?

Pravda, as usual, is a little incoherent on the subject, but this is worth looking at:

Here, we are talking about totally new kinds of aircraft: spy planes, fighter planes, transport planes, ect. They will be able to fly from the atmosphere into space and then return to Earth. The Americans have been working on this kind of aircraft for years already, developing several ?star wars� projects. The United States has been designing and testing such planes for a long time. They already have the X-33, X-34, X-37, and X-38 planes.

What they're talking baout here is a planned upgrade to the USAF's existing space architecture, with a special eye on unmanned, reusable spacecraft and micro-satellites. RASCAL is another project similar to the X-40 but a smaller vehicle.

Consider now the Star Wars program: hundreds of orbiting surveillance and weapon satellites designed to destroy ICBMs as they launched from the USSR. Great idea. Except at any one time something like 80% of your orbiting defense sats are useless, because they're over the wrong part of the planet. As we all know, that was a smokescreen - there was no real SDI plan, it was simply a way of overstretching an already beaten opponent by forcing them to attempt to develop technological countermeasures. (The original ABM program contributed to the development of the MIRV).

So, if there is a spaceplane, what is it used for? (Bear in mind that the Aurora is only capable of Mach 6 or 7 and is a recon plane, not a mothership). It can launch payloads at a fraction of the cost and ensure that they are up-to-date technology (Iridium lost out because technologgy moved forward while its sats waited to be lofted). It can function as an exo-atmospheric interceptor, to knock out, disable or even capture enemy satellites. And it can also act as a kinetic energy weapon deployment vehicle - a fancy word for dropping rocks on people from orbit. A crowbar dropped from orbit will impact at around 7km/s and will utterly obliterate a tank and probably most bunkers.

So where is it? Look to the Nevada skies...

Originally posted by Leveller
Um. Russia has the edge because they put the first man in space?
Where's the logic there?
Maybe you could add to that and maybe explain wether the first man on the moon has any bearing on Soviet dominance?
Or the first missions to Venus, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, Neptune, Pluto, Uranus, Mercury?
Or the space shuttle?
Or the ISS?

Oh hang on.... the Chinese have the edge because they've just put a man into space for a couple of hours 50 years behind everyone else?

Please.

At present, the United States (officially) cannot put a human being into space. Russia and China can. The Russians have also maintained near-constant human presence in space for nearly twenty years now.

The only reason Russia didn't reach the Moon first was because they had to launch from Baikonur. Their N-1 was just too big and complex, and as such exploded on at least 3 occasions, making it completely unsafe and therefore unusable. IMO, simply being closer to the equator probably won that round of the Space Race for the US.

Since the Columbia investigation concluded, NASA hasnt done much. The shuttles have not been modified much, and the SRBs and external tank have yet to go through any changes. It seems like NASA is just scratching its head and waiting for the go ahead to launch another one.

The US space program is ridiculously lazy and needs a new face. Right now our space program is hurting and we need something to restart it in the right direction.

Originally posted by jrod
Since the Columbia investigation concluded, NASA hasnt done much. The shuttles have not been modified much, and the SRBs and external tank have yet to go through any changes. It seems like NASA is just scratching its head and waiting for the go ahead to launch another one.

The US space program is ridiculously lazy and needs a new face. Right now our space program is hurting and we need something to restart it in the right direction.

*NODS*
The U.S needs to concentrate on funding NASA....now why would they do that? how wouldd they benefit from that... they wouldnt.
NASA .... they've expired...
the rumours spread out on the net are shallow, i think there's a need to start looking at a whole new perspective.
The reason the fundings have been reduced by this much is probably due to the administration giving up on the space project, probably because they have REASON to believe that there's Nothing out there
ergo: an income deficit since the early 90's proves they've suspected this for over a decade now, and have they done anything to put an end to SETI? why are SETI so underfunded, when in contrast with the military customization and fundings??
Seti's there for the sake of appearance
So is NASA.
im glad we have the russians to rely on, they seem to be handling the situation quite well, im glad to say
Cyrus.

i dont think seti is looked at as a credible entity by the whitehouse or congress. i dont think the government actually believes searching for aliens is something that needs to be taken seriously, and frankly, niether do i. we need to explore space because of the things that we can learn, the money that will eventually be made there, and most importanly, because we can. it has nothing to do with little green men.

The following is a breakdown of space activity/expenditures for all of 2002 thru the 1st half of 2003 (AIAA survey). All costs are in USD:

Brazil - $33 million in 2002. Began development of Multimission Platform that will be used on the Brazilian Remote Sensing Satellite (SSR-1) and other Brazilian satellites. Provides satellite communications at any inclination and from equatorial to polar orbits. Complete the third version of the Satellite Launch Vehicle (VLS-1 V03). Signed a cooperation agreement with China to develop the Earth Resources Satellites CBERS 3 & 4. Expects to launch the CVERS-2 from China this year. Also looking at a cooperative agreement with Ukraine to develop a Cyclone 4 launch vehicle system.

ESA - $8.9 million in 2002. Had one astronaut sent to ISS. The ENVISAT, the most advanced earth observation satellite developed by the European agency so far was placed on orbit. The International Gamma-Ray Laboratory (INTEGRAL) was placed on orbit. The Meteosat Second Generation (MSG-1) was placed on orbit. Mars Express was launched. The Small Advanced Research and Technology solar electric propulsion study (SMART-1) was just recently placed on orbit. Insat 3E was placed on orbit. And I believe the e-Bird as well. They plan to launch the Rosetta mission next year. ESA will be building a Soyuz launch pad at Kourou, French Guiana for Ariance and Vega launches. They continue to work on the first European navigation satellite system (the Europen Gaileo program) which, when complete will consist of 30 spacecraft in circular orbits for global coverage. They are redesign the ARiane 5 Vulcain-2 first-stage engine and the ESC-A cryogenic upper stage. They also continue work on the Earth Explorer Opportunity Missions which use an atmospheric and climate measuring satellite called ACE+, the European Global Precipitation Mission (EGPM) (which is part of a US-Japan GPM), and Swarm - a constellation of small polar satellites.

France - $1.7 billion in 2002.Launched the Archeops Experience balloon. Launched the ENVISAT. Launched the JC-SAT-8 and ASTRA 3A. Conducted the second long-term bed rest experiment jointly with ESA, CNEX and Japan's NASDA. Launched NSS-7, SPOT 5, and INTELSAT 905. Launched the Stellat 5 and the Japanese N-Star C communications satellites. Had one astronaut to ISS. Launched the MSG-1 and the Atlantic Bird communications satellite. Launched INTELSAT 906. Participated in ESA's INTEGRAL satellite. Launched a Russian Proton. Launched Stentor and Hotbird satellites (this launch failed). Participated in Japan's Adeos II Earth observation satellite. Launched NSS-6. Launched INTELSAT 907, Insat 3A and Galaxy 12R. Launched Optus c1 and BSat 2c communications satellites. Plan is to begin development of the Plaeiades satellite consteallation and the hydrology satellite ESMOS this year. Will build a Soyuz launch pad in Kourou jointly with Russia.

Germany - $713 million in 2002. Jointly with US launched two Gravity Recovery and Climate project satellites. The Scanning Imaging Absorption Spectrometer (joint effort with Dutch) was part of ENVISAT. Working on laser satellite communications technology and the construction of the TerraSar X-band radar obervation satellite, and the RapidEye optimcal high-resolution satellite.

Japan - $2.47 billion in 2002. Launched the Advanced Microwave Scanning Radiometer (AMSER-E/EOS-PM1). Launched the Data Relay Tracking Satellite and the Unmanned Space Experiment Recovery System. Launched the Advanced Earth Observation Satellite II (ADEOS-II), the Micro-Lab Sat, the Whale Ecology Observation Satellite System and the Federation Satellite. Lost experiments on STS-107. The Information Gathering Satellite was launched. Launched the ISAS MUSES-C satellite. The Kibo was delivered to the ISS. Plans to launch another Information Gathering Satellite and a Multifunctional Transport Satellite, MTSAT-1R, and an ISAS ASTRO-F satellite by April 2004. Will have an astronaut on STS-114. Plans to launch the Advanced Land Observation Satellite, the Experimental Test Satellite (ETS-8), the Selene lunar orberter mission, the Winds ultra-high-speed Internet satellite. Plans a mission to Venus. One ISS supply support mission is planned. Intends to begin development of a second-stage engine for the Galaxy Express.

Russia - $312 million in 2002. 25 satellite launches (23 were successful) - 10 civil, 7 comemrical, 8 military. These included 3 ISS supply missions. This year they have had 5 civil launches, 4 military launches and 1 commericial launch. Expecting a total of 8 more for this year. Main efforts are going toward rebuilding the GLONASS navigation satellite system, and developing the space probe for the Maritan moon Phobos.

Spain - $240 million in 2002. Launched the Hispasat 1-D satellite. Paritcipated in ESA's Earth observation satellites MSG-1 and ENVISAT and the INTEGRAL. Began work on the European Geostationary Navigation Overlay System including work on the Mission Operations Center at Torrejon, Madrid. Contract has been awarded on the Amazonas. Completed the Minisat-01 scientific mission. Spain will be involved in the ESA/European Union Galileo program. Spain will be the European node of the ESA's deep space netowrk. Expects to send an astronaut to ISS in near future.

UK - $283 million in 2002. Participated in ESA's Earth observation satellite ENVISAT. Provided the Ptolemy instrumet to the Rosetta mission. Focusing on telecommunications/broadcasting and Earth observation. Involved in approximately 50 international space programs including the Hubble, Mars Express/Beagle 2, Geotto/Rosetta, BepiColumbo/Solar Orbiter, Meteosat, MSG, Galileo, and Topsat. Launched the Beagle 2 Lander. Involved in the ESA long-term solar exploration Aurora program.

US - $14 billion in 2002. Five successful shuttle mission which included 4 ISS assembly missions and one Hubble service mission. Launched the High Energy Solar Spectroscopic Imager. Launched the Comet Nucleus Tour (Contour). Launched the Rover A and the Rover B. Launched the Galaxy Evolution Explorer and the Space Infrared Telescope Facility. The Gravity Probe-B is due to launch any time now. And the Swift gamma-ray burst research is scheduled to launch by EOY. MESSENGER (Mercury Surface, Space Environment, Geochemistry, and Ranging), the Dawn mission to orbit around 2 asteroids, the Deep Impact mission to probe the surface of a comet, the New Frontiers program (New Horizons mission to explore Pluto and the Kuiper Belt as well as a possible Jupiter Icy Moon Orbiter mission) are all in the plans for the future. Mars exploration plans include the Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter mission, the Mars Scout mission, the Mars Smart Rover/Lander. Future astronomical search for origins missions include the Swift gamma-ray burst explorer, the Gamma-ray Large Area Space Telescope mission, the Stratospheric Obervatory mission, and the last Hubble space Telescope service mission. The Earth science for last year included launching the Gravity Recovery and Climate Experiment, the Aqua spacecraft, and the NOAA-M satellite. The Chemistry and SeaaWinds experiments were launched. The Solar Raidation and Climate Experiment mission and the Ice, Cloud, and Land Elevation Satellite/Cosmic Hot Interstellar Spectrometer were launched. SciSat-1 (studies atmospheric ozone depletion) was launched. Aura, Cloudsat, and Calipso are planned for next. Continuing work with NOAA and DOD on the civilian and military National Polar-orbiting Operational Environmental Satellite system. The Tracking and Data Relay Satellite (TDRS-1) was launched. And of course there was the one unsuccessful science Shuttle mission STS-107.

Countries that did not respond to the survey:

Canada: Participated in the ISS and the Radarsat environemental satellite program. Still expecting to launch Radarsat-2. Looking to participate in the European Galileo program and the Mars Lander mission. Will participate in the Mars exploration missions. Launched the microsatellite Microvariability and Oscillation of Stars Telescope.

China - had 4 successful Long March launches. 2 were for the Shenzhou unmanned spacecraft. The Shenzhou III was launched. The Shenzhoue IV was launched. Launched the Beidou 2A satellite (expects at least 2 more launches this year). Is developing a second-generation polar-orbiting weather satellite, the FY-3. Develooping an astronomy spacecraft and a multimission satellite which includes Iranian and Thai technologies. Launched a manned space mission. Planning a manned fly-by of the moon within four years. Plans to launch a constellation of Earth observing satellites next year. Plans geostationary meteorological satellites and data relay spacecraft in the near future.

India - Launched the INSAT-3C domestic communications satellite. Launched the Metsat 1 weather satellite. Successfully ground tested the Cryogenic Upper Stage for the Geosynchronous Satellite Launch Vehicle (GSLV). Launched the INSAT-3A domestic communications satellite. Launched GSAT-2 communications satellite. Developing the IRS-P5 (Cartosat), IRS-P6, INSAT-3, Megha Tropiques (joint with the French), a radar imaging satellite, Oceansat-2, Edusat and a crop-monitoring satellite, AGrisat. Plans to launch a spacecraft with microgravity experiements in a couple of years. India's immediate planning does not include manned spaceflights. It does include future robotic lunar orbiting missions.

Israel - Developing the Shavit launcher system and imaging satellites (Ofeq). Launch Ofeq-5, a military imaging recon satellite. Expects Ofeq-6 in next 3 years. Developing a secure military satellite communications system under the Seventh Heaven program.

Italy - Sent one astronaut to ISS. Is participating in the Earth observation constellation Cosmos-SkyMed program, the French Pleiades program, the Extremely Light Imager for Gamma Astronomy program, the DAVID (Data and Visual Distributors) program, and the Galileo program. Developing a sounding radar for the NASA Mars Reconnaisance Orbiter Mission. Possible participation in NASA's Mars Smart Lander mission. Involved in the European Mars Express probe. Involved in the European Venus Express mission. Developing the Vega small launch vehicle and Prima and Mita payload buses.

one thing you give us numbers of amounts of money spent in space rechearch. but its not a question of how much money it is a question how they spent it.

Originally posted by MarkLuitzen
one thing you give us numbers of amounts of money spent in space rechearch. but its not a question of how much money it is a question how they spent it.

With the amount of typing I just did to review the activity I sure as heck hope you aren't talking to me.

The following is a breakdown of space activity/expenditures for all of 2002 thru the 1st half of 2003 (AIAA survey). All costs are in USD:

Brazil - $33 million in 2002. Began development of Multimission Platform that will be used on the Brazilian Remote Sensing Satellite (SSR-1) and other Brazilian satellites. Provides satellite communications at any inclination and from equatorial to polar orbits. Complete the third version of the Satellite Launch Vehicle (VLS-1 V03). Signed a cooperation agreement with China to develop the Earth Resources Satellites CBERS 3 & 4. Expects to launch the CVERS-2 from China this year. Also looking at a cooperative agreement with Ukraine to develop a Cyclone 4 launch vehicle system.

ESA - $8.9 million in 2002. Had one astronaut sent to ISS. The ENVISAT, the most advanced earth observation satellite developed by the European agency so far was placed on orbit. The International Gamma-Ray Laboratory (INTEGRAL) was placed on orbit. The Meteosat Second Generation (MSG-1) was placed on orbit. Mars Express was launched. The Small Advanced Research and Technology solar electric propulsion study (SMART-1) was just recently placed on orbit. Insat 3E was placed on orbit. And I believe the e-Bird as well. They plan to launch the Rosetta mission next year. ESA will be building a Soyuz launch pad at Kourou, French Guiana for Ariance and Vega launches. They continue to work on the first European navigation satellite system (the Europen Gaileo program) which, when complete will consist of 30 spacecraft in circular orbits for global coverage. They are redesign the ARiane 5 Vulcain-2 first-stage engine and the ESC-A cryogenic upper stage. They also continue work on the Earth Explorer Opportunity Missions which use an atmospheric and climate measuring satellite called ACE+, the European Global Precipitation Mission (EGPM) (which is part of a US-Japan GPM), and Swarm - a constellation of small polar satellites.

France - $1.7 billion in 2002.Launched the Archeops Experience balloon. Launched the ENVISAT. Launched the JC-SAT-8 and ASTRA 3A. Conducted the second long-term bed rest experiment jointly with ESA, CNEX and Japan's NASDA. Launched NSS-7, SPOT 5, and INTELSAT 905. Launched the Stellat 5 and the Japanese N-Star C communications satellites. Had one astronaut to ISS. Launched the MSG-1 and the Atlantic Bird communications satellite. Launched INTELSAT 906. Participated in ESA's INTEGRAL satellite. Launched a Russian Proton. Launched Stentor and Hotbird satellites (this launch failed). Participated in Japan's Adeos II Earth observation satellite. Launched NSS-6. Launched INTELSAT 907, Insat 3A and Galaxy 12R. Launched Optus c1 and BSat 2c communications satellites. Plan is to begin development of the Plaeiades satellite consteallation and the hydrology satellite ESMOS this year. Will build a Soyuz launch pad in Kourou jointly with Russia.

Germany - $713 million in 2002. Jointly with US launched two Gravity Recovery and Climate project satellites. The Scanning Imaging Absorption Spectrometer (joint effort with Dutch) was part of ENVISAT. Working on laser satellite communications technology and the construction of the TerraSar X-band radar obervation satellite, and the RapidEye optimcal high-resolution satellite.

Japan - $2.47 billion in 2002. Launched the Advanced Microwave Scanning Radiometer (AMSER-E/EOS-PM1). Launched the Data Relay Tracking Satellite and the Unmanned Space Experiment Recovery System. Launched the Advanced Earth Observation Satellite II (ADEOS-II), the Micro-Lab Sat, the Whale Ecology Observation Satellite System and the Federation Satellite. Lost experiments on STS-107. The Information Gathering Satellite was launched. Launched the ISAS MUSES-C satellite. The Kibo was delivered to the ISS. Plans to launch another Information Gathering Satellite and a Multifunctional Transport Satellite, MTSAT-1R, and an ISAS ASTRO-F satellite by April 2004. Will have an astronaut on STS-114. Plans to launch the Advanced Land Observation Satellite, the Experimental Test Satellite (ETS-8), the Selene lunar orberter mission, the Winds ultra-high-speed Internet satellite. Plans a mission to Venus. One ISS supply support mission is planned. Intends to begin development of a second-stage engine for the Galaxy Express.

Russia - $312 million in 2002. 25 satellite launches (23 were successful) - 10 civil, 7 comemrical, 8 military. These included 3 ISS supply missions. This year they have had 5 civil launches, 4 military launches and 1 commericial launch. Expecting a total of 8 more for this year. Main efforts are going toward rebuilding the GLONASS navigation satellite system, and developing the space probe for the Maritan moon Phobos.

Spain - $240 million in 2002. Launched the Hispasat 1-D satellite. Paritcipated in ESA's Earth observation satellites MSG-1 and ENVISAT and the INTEGRAL. Began work on the European Geostationary Navigation Overlay System including work on the Mission Operations Center at Torrejon, Madrid. Contract has been awarded on the Amazonas. Completed the Minisat-01 scientific mission. Spain will be involved in the ESA/European Union Galileo program. Spain will be the European node of the ESA's deep space netowrk. Expects to send an astronaut to ISS in near future.

UK - $283 million in 2002. Participated in ESA's Earth observation satellite ENVISAT. Provided the Ptolemy instrumet to the Rosetta mission. Focusing on telecommunications/broadcasting and Earth observation. Involved in approximately 50 international space programs including the Hubble, Mars Express/Beagle 2, Geotto/Rosetta, BepiColumbo/Solar Orbiter, Meteosat, MSG, Galileo, and Topsat. Launched the Beagle 2 Lander. Involved in the ESA long-term solar exploration Aurora program.

US - $14 billion in 2002. Five successful shuttle mission which included 4 ISS assembly missions and one Hubble service mission. Launched the High Energy Solar Spectroscopic Imager. Launched the Comet Nucleus Tour (Contour). Launched the Rover A and the Rover B. Launched the Galaxy Evolution Explorer and the Space Infrared Telescope Facility. The Gravity Probe-B is due to launch any time now. And the Swift gamma-ray burst research is scheduled to launch by EOY. MESSENGER (Mercury Surface, Space Environment, Geochemistry, and Ranging), the Dawn mission to orbit around 2 asteroids, the Deep Impact mission to probe the surface of a comet, the New Frontiers program (New Horizons mission to explore Pluto and the Kuiper Belt as well as a possible Jupiter Icy Moon Orbiter mission) are all in the plans for the future. Mars exploration plans include the Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter mission, the Mars Scout mission, the Mars Smart Rover/Lander. Future astronomical search for origins missions include the Swift gamma-ray burst explorer, the Gamma-ray Large Area Space Telescope mission, the Stratospheric Obervatory mission, and the last Hubble space Telescope service mission. The Earth science for last year included launching the Gravity Recovery and Climate Experiment, the Aqua spacecraft, and the NOAA-M satellite. The Chemistry and SeaaWinds experiments were launched. The Solar Raidation and Climate Experiment mission and the Ice, Cloud, and Land Elevation Satellite/Cosmic Hot Interstellar Spectrometer were launched. SciSat-1 (studies atmospheric ozone depletion) was launched. Aura, Cloudsat, and Calipso are planned for next. Continuing work with NOAA and DOD on the civilian and military National Polar-orbiting Operational Environmental Satellite system. The Tracking and Data Relay Satellite (TDRS-1) was launched. And of course there was the one unsuccessful science Shuttle mission STS-107.

Countries that did not respond to the survey:

Canada: Participated in the ISS and the Radarsat environemental satellite program. Still expecting to launch Radarsat-2. Looking to participate in the European Galileo program and the Mars Lander mission. Will participate in the Mars exploration missions. Launched the microsatellite Microvariability and Oscillation of Stars Telescope.

China - had 4 successful Long March launches. 2 were for the Shenzhou unmanned spacecraft. The Shenzhou III was launched. The Shenzhoue IV was launched. Launched the Beidou 2A satellite (expects at least 2 more launches this year). Is developing a second-generation polar-orbiting weather satellite, the FY-3. Develooping an astronomy spacecraft and a multimission satellite which includes Iranian and Thai technologies. Launched a manned space mission. Planning a manned fly-by of the moon within four years. Plans to launch a constellation of Earth observing satellites next year. Plans geostationary meteorological satellites and data relay spacecraft in the near future.

India - Launched the INSAT-3C domestic communications satellite. Launched the Metsat 1 weather satellite. Successfully ground tested the Cryogenic Upper Stage for the Geosynchronous Satellite Launch Vehicle (GSLV). Launched the INSAT-3A domestic communications satellite. Launched GSAT-2 communications satellite. Developing the IRS-P5 (Cartosat), IRS-P6, INSAT-3, Megha Tropiques (joint with the French), a radar imaging satellite, Oceansat-2, Edusat and a crop-monitoring satellite, AGrisat. Plans to launch a spacecraft with microgravity experiements in a couple of years. India's immediate planning does not include manned spaceflights. It does include future robotic lunar orbiting missions.

Israel - Developing the Shavit launcher system and imaging satellites (Ofeq). Launch Ofeq-5, a military imaging recon satellite. Expects Ofeq-6 in next 3 years. Developing a secure military satellite communications system under the Seventh Heaven program.

Italy - Sent one astronaut to ISS. Is participating in the Earth observation constellation Cosmos-SkyMed program, the French Pleiades program, the Extremely Light Imager for Gamma Astronomy program, the DAVID (Data and Visual Distributors) program, and the Galileo program. Developing a sounding radar for the NASA Mars Reconnaisance Orbiter Mission. Possible participation in NASA's Mars Smart Lander mission. Involved in the European Mars Express probe. Involved in the European Venus Express mission. Developing the Vega small launch vehicle and Prima and Mita payload buses.

---------------------------------------------------------------------


insane stuff....
valhall...you'll bring the end of me one day, i can feel it
the U.S spent 14billion on NASA....not bad, when compared to the others, now where did the other 586billion go?
im not griping here, dont get me wrong, finding that info and pasting it up on the board must have been a herculean task in it's essence valhall*applauds/cheers artificially*
take a look at russia's figures....when compared to the U.S, just goes' to prove russian superiority *starts swinging @ every1 with a beanbag*
seriously now...im not mocking your post val, im facing a conundrum here!!
are you contradicting *gasp* every1 with those figures??*gasp* or did you post all that up for the hell of it
Cordially
Cyrus

Originally posted by Cyrus

insane stuff....

valhall...you'll bring the end of me one day, i can feel it

the U.S spent 14billion on NASA....not bad, when compared to the others, now where did the other 586billion go?

im not griping here, dont get me wrong, finding that info and pasting it up on the board must have been a herculean task in it's essence valhall*applauds/cheers artificially*

take a look at russia's figures....when compared to the U.S, just goes' to prove russian superiority *starts swinging @ every1 with a beanbag*

seriously now...im not mocking your post val, im facing a conundrum here!!
are you contradicting *gasp* every1 with those figures??*gasp* or did you post all that up for the hell of it

Cordially
Cyrus

Cyrus, I swear to gawd, your Ukrainian sense of humor is going to be the death of **me** someday!

I posted that up because I believe when we discuss these issues, we should discuss the facts...not just opinions. So I include the facts here to further the discussion...no other reason.

[Edited on 15-11-2003 by Valhall]

i think its great that all these other countries are getting into the space game.....i can think of nothing better to speed things up and to make things more accessible to all people in forms of information as well actually getting to go into space....

Originally posted by sirCyco
i think its great that all these other countries are getting into the space game.....i can think of nothing better to speed things up and to make things more accessible to all people in forms of information as well actually getting to go into space....

I absolutely agree sirCyco. These advances by other countries should be viewed positively, not negatively. Competition is going to be the catalyst to technological advancement...what's missing is more private competition. But I believe, once the commercial returns are figured out, that will enter more into the picture.

Originally posted by sirCyco
i think its great that all these other countries are getting into the space game.....i can think of nothing better to speed things up and to make things more accessible to all people in forms of information as well actually getting to go into space....

well....going back to my previous argument,*cackles uncontrollably at val nervously awaiting a smack*, how would we benefit from other countries' plowing investments regardless of a conclusive finale(little green men's what every1's been aiming for recently
my bet goes on the russians, they'll figure it out first, they are more likely to since they arent so fussy about launches going bad ie: grilling their passengers due to lack of funding
Cordially
Cyrus


[Edited on 15-11-2003 by Cyrus]

Originally posted by Valhall

Originally posted by Cyrus

insane stuff....

valhall...you'll bring the end of me one day, i can feel it

the U.S spent 14billion on NASA....not bad, when compared to the others, now where did the other 586billion go?

im not griping here, dont get me wrong, finding that info and pasting it up on the board must have been a herculean task in it's essence valhall*applauds/cheers artificially*

take a look at russia's figures....when compared to the U.S, just goes' to prove russian superiority *starts swinging @ every1 with a beanbag*

seriously now...im not mocking your post val, im facing a conundrum here!!
are you contradicting *gasp* every1 with those figures??*gasp* or did you post all that up for the hell of it

Cordially
Cyrus

Cyrus, I swear to gawd, your Ukrainian sense of humor is going to be the death of **me** someday!

I posted that up because I believe when we discuss these issues, we should discuss the facts...not just opinions. So I include the facts here to further the discussion...no other reason.

[Edited on 15-11-2003 by Valhall]

Im glad you didnt take on the topic!!




[Edited on 15-11-2003 by Cyrus]

[

how would we benefit from other countries' plowing investments regardless of a conclusive finale(
Cordially
Cyrus


well they may make us work harder faster to stay ahead...they may come up with better technology that we have not thought of....maybe they will find a cheaper,more simple way of traveling in space...after all i have quite a few friends that prefer a honda over a ford any day of the week...

If we do have secret space programs, they're probably not what we think they are.