Nearly 70% Of Americans Want Talks To End War In Ukraine

originally posted by: Consvoli
. Nobody else has made the argument you have just made i.e socialists source so the poll isn't valid...

Because nobody bothered to look at the source. I did. It's a far left source funded by George Soros and with people who work for Salon and Think Progress and Media Matters. For crying out loud ... Mother Jones praised it. It's a far left leaning source. The site is a 'blame America first' site.

And I didn't say it 'wasn't valid'. I said it was biased and suspect. You have to have other sources that back it up in order for it to be believed.

You need to come up with better arguments.

No I don't. Not even a little bit. My statement is just fine and rock solid.

originally posted by: gortex
Sad to see Americans advocating surrender.

Don't throw in the towel just yet.
The 70% figure that the OP quoted is suspect.
I was able to instantly find a poll that said just about the opposite.
Council on Global Affairs - Americans Continue to Support Military and Economic Aid to Ukraine
Polls can be made to say anything you want.
And the poll that is being quoted is biased and the site is SOROS FUNDED.
So there needs to be back up polling to verify the first as accurate.
And so far ... the poll I found right off the bat ... debunks the OP poll.
The OP poll may be right ... but it equally may be wrong.

For the record I am neither for nor against America backing Ukraine in it's defense against Russian invasion so I have no 'skin in the game'. I go back and forth. I see the need to stop the Russian aggression before it spreads to other countries. But I also see billions of our tax money going overseas to stop an invasion when we have one going on right here in America at our Southern border and that needs money and attention. So ... I am on the fence and am not pushing for one thing or another.

It's amusing how the pro war crowd are generous with other people's money and other families sacrificing their children as cannon fodder. 99.9% of them have sent zero dollars of their own personal money and wouldn't last a day in a combat zone. It's really easy to slap a "i support ukraine" bumper sticker on their EV or update their profile pic aka virtue signal but that's as far as their 'support' goes.

a reply to: Consvoli

Do you imagine 70% of Americans would want to enter into peace talks if it was your nation Putin had invaded and stolen 18% of the land?

The answer is probably not eh?

You don't make deals or capitulate where scum like Putin is concerned.

Because if you give him an inch he will take 28,743 sq miles.

Freedom to Ukraine and down with the Russian scum invaders.

originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: Consvoli
. Nobody else has made the argument you have just made i.e socialists source so the poll isn't valid...

Because nobody bothered to look at the source. I did. It's a far left source funded by George Soros and with people who work for Salon and Think Progress and Media Matters. For crying out loud ... Mother Jones praised it. It's a far left leaning source. The site is a 'blame America first' site.

And I didn't say it 'wasn't valid'. I said it was biased and suspect. You have to have other sources that back it up in order for it to be believed.

You need to come up with better arguments.

No I don't. Not even a little bit. My statement is just fine and rock solid.

Your statement is an attack on the source because you don't have anything to say about the poll which still stands.

Everything that doesn't fit your argument is renamed as socialist. You really need better arguments I am afraid.

Poll said nearly 70% of Americans want the war to end. If you have any other polls or evidence the majority of Americans want the war to continue then post it. This isn't a left vs right argument.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: Consvoli

Do you imagine 70% of Americans would want to enter into peace talks if it was your nation Putin had invaded and stolen 18% of the land?

The answer is probably not eh?

You don't make deals or capitulate where scum like Putin is concerned.

Because if you give him an inch he will take 28,743 sq miles.

Freedom to Ukraine and down with the Russian scum invaders.

You forget something important: The reality of the war. Ukraine has lost the war and many men are unwilling to fight and others try to escape to nearby counties. Lokk at my other thread. The loses are so great (on both sides) so the war cannot continue. The prolongation is irrational and there is no way Ukraine will get these territories back unless they negotiate some agreement for some of these territories.

originally posted by: lincolnriley
It's amusing how the pro war crowd are generous with other people's money and other families sacrificing their children as cannon fodder. 99.9% of them have sent zero dollars of their own personal money and wouldn't last a day in a combat zone. It's really easy to slap a "i support ukraine" bumper sticker on their EV or update their profile pic aka virtue signal but that's as far as their 'support' goes.

They are arguing for the prolongation of the war but it's not their kids and grandkids who are going to be sacrificed.

a reply to: FlyersFan

In your reply to gortex you said the poll can be right or wrong

I would say the poll is right as there have been other polls before this one. Just take a look at them.

a reply to: Consvoli

Ukraine has lost nothing, and Russia still being held in place by what amounts to farmers armed with NATO toys Consvoli.

The war is continuing and Ukraine is nowhere near ready to capitulate and let Russia steamroll all over the remainder of their nation.

None of which addresses the fact that if it were your own nation you would not be quite so willing to give in to the demands of scum like Putin or his invasion farce which essentially failed on day 3 to meet their military objectives.

What is irrational is to give up your nation down to the whims of Mad Vlad and his failed land grab by my guess.

a reply to: Consvoli

It's not America's kids and grandkids who are going to be sacrificed nether.

As long as Russia is held in check and Ukraine remains a sovereign nation.

If Russia walks all over Europe through, then you are apt to get properly involved.

If in doubt see the second world war for instance.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: Consvoli

Ukraine has lost nothing, and Russia still being held in place by what amounts to farmers armed with NATO toys Consvoli.

The war is continuing and Ukraine is nowhere near ready to capitulate and let Russia steamroll all over the remainder of their nation.

None of which addresses the fact that if it were your own nation you would not be quite so willing to give in to the demands of scum like Putin or his invasion farce which essentially failed on day 3 to meet their military objectives.

What is irrational is to give up your nation down to the whims of Mad Vlad and his failed land grab by my guess.

You are entitled to your opinion but I will not agree with this.

When so much of your territory has been occupied and when you lost so many young men in the battlefield and when young men either avoid to enlist in the army or trying to escape to nearby countries then it's clear the war has been lost. At least to me this is clear.

After a point you just don't continue anymore because of the human cost and the risk of the loss of even more territory.

R

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: Consvoli

It's not America's kids and grandkids who are going to be sacrificed nether.

As long as Russia is held in check and Ukraine remains a sovereign nation.

If Russia walks all over Europe through, then you are apt to get properly involved.

If in doubt see the second world war for instance.

We agree on this.

The people who are arguing for the prolongation of the war are not related to the conflict. Their kids and grandkids are safe.

One more comment, the west imo doesn't care so much about the Ukrainian lives or Ukraine. They want a proxy war against Russia.

a reply to: Consvoli

You are entitled to your opinion but I will not agree with this.

Same as yourself buddy.

When so much of your territory has been occupied

18% or thereabouts.

and when you lost son many young men in the battlefield and when young men either avoid to enlist in the army or trying to escape to nearby countries then it's clear the war has been lost.

Russia are in the same to a similar situation, so there is that.

At least to me this is clear.

The thing is, its not about what is clear to you, but how the Ukrainians feel regarding their current predicament, and the majority of them are not up for capitulation.

After a point you just don't continue anymore because of the human cost and the risk of the loss of even more territory.

You try telling that to Putin and his invaders, after all they are the ones in the wrong postcode.

Again mate if it was your own nation i imagine you would be singing a very different tune.

a reply to: Consvoli

We agree on this.

We probably want the same thing just in a different manner aka peace and a return to stability.

The people who are arguing for the prolongation of the war are not related to the conflict. Their kids and grandkids are safe.

Europe and by extension the rest of the civilised world is not safe should Russia be allowed to assimilate Ukraine, so there is that.

One more comment, the west imo doesn't care so much about the Ukrainian lives or Ukraine. They want a proxy war against Russia.

The chessboard is what it is I'm afraid same as the geography.

As to proxy wars, are they not all proxy wars to one degree or another?

Show me a conflict that has taken place after the First World War that the superpowers have not had a hand in, or a finger in the pie?

You're apt to be hard-pushed to do so.

Nonetheless Russian should not be allowed to prevail in Ukraine because it simply won't end there imho.

70% of American heh? I believe if we were given a choice in the UK it would be 90%, if and I say if people were told the truth. The 70% bit, was that for Ukraine? Naah. A little country thousands of miles away from them. Was it for people dying? Naah. It isn't their people dying. And it certainly is not the total BS story you're all spouting, ie. we have to keep the world free from communism because Putin wont stop at Ukraine, he'll take the rest of Europe.
That vote is about one thing only MONEY. That's money being took out of their pockets to prolong a conflict that the US/NATO had no business being in the first place.
Think on this, all the BS rhetoric war hawks that say Russia is weak (we can take them), has a weak military (they're all peasants), Hitler thought that and even a certain General Patton. Russia can mobilize more men than you can imagine and the same goes for war materiel. Putin is happy with what he's got, he don't want the rest of Ukraine cos believe me if he wanted it he would have had it 12 months ago. And don't give me the BS about brave Ukrainian soldiers keeping the mighty Russian army at bay.

originally posted by: Consvoli
Your statement is an attack on the source because you don't have anything to say about the poll which still stands.

Nope. When someone posts a poll, the source of that poll is always looked at because polling can be skewed to make it look like anything the polling place wants. In this case, your poll is from a group that is backed with SOROS MONEY. That automatically makes it highly suspect.

Everything that doesn't fit your argument is renamed as socialist.

I don't have an argument. I already said, I'm not for or against the war.

You really need better arguments I am afraid.

yeah .. I knew it ... it's you. Tell-tale.
You are on your 18th incarnation here that I've counted.

Poll said nearly 70% of Americans want the war to end. If you have any other polls or evidence the majority of Americans want the war to continue then post it.

Already did. I said that probably EVERYONE wants the war to end, however your poll saying that 70% want us to stop funding it and end it that way needs backup. I instantly found another poll that said just the opposite of yours. And I posted it.

This isn't a left vs right argument.

Yeah .. it is. You aren't American and you have always been coy about what country you are from (my guess has always been somewhere near Londonistan). In America the left mostly backs funding the war in the Ukraine while the right does not so much anymore.

NEW POLL!

99% of Ukrainians want America to keep sending money. I guess their 99% to our 70% wins.

originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: TheMisguidedAngel
- Ukraine handed over its nuclear armoury when gaining independence on assurance that Russia would never invade Ukraine and would in fact act as defenders and guarantors of Ukrainian independence.

Why do people keep posting this without mentioning that the nuclear weapons that were in Ukraine belonged to Russia. Moscow positioned some nuclear weapons in Ukraine when they were both part of the USSR.

THE BIG THING here is that Ukraine could not use those Nuclear weapons, they could only be launched from, Moscow, they were worthless to Ukraine without Russian support.

You mention that "Ukraine handed over their Nuclear armoury" like these were weapons that Ukraine could use whenever they wanted and that's simply not true. Moscow held the launch codes for them, they belonged to Russia to were worthless to Ukraine

originally posted by: FlyersFan

Nope. When someone posts a poll, the source of that poll is always looked at because polling can be skewed to make it look like anything the polling place wants. In this case, your poll is from a group that is backed with SOROS MONEY. That automatically makes it highly suspect.

When someone posts polls I go to the poll and look at the question. Many times, you can't find the poles. but in this case, you can.

In this case, there is zero question asking if America wants talks to end the war. There are questions about "how" the war may end. It also suggests that 119 billion has been sent to Ukraine and that is factually untrue, so that question is leading with false information.

So, the OP should read that 70% of Americans think the war will one day end with negotiations.

a reply to: Xtrozero

I wonder how the British feel about the issue.

Jeremy Hunt defends civil service job cuts to increase defence spending

Jeremy Hunt has defended plans to slash civil service jobs to increase defence spending and Ukraine aid, during a surprise trip to Kyiv.

Mr Hunt confirmed the increase will cost an extra £20bn, which unions claim will be funded by cutting 70,000 jobs.

The announcement comes after Prime Minister Rishi Sunak confirmed the UK would provide an additional £500m for Ukraine this year, on top of £2.5bn already allocated.

BBC

Lossing your job so your government can fund a never ending foreign war policy.