It's 15 years since Hidden Hand's dialogue with ATS members.

.....What has been validated, discredited, left open to debate?

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I came to ATS for the first time 3 or 4 weeks ago as a result of a link from another site, referencing the conversations that so-called ‘Hidden Hand’ had with ATS members back in late 2008.

Hidden Hand described him/herself as a member of a family, a blood-line that essentially controls the World from the shadows; an Elite or Illuminati, if you will. They mean us harm & ill, but for cogent reasons and at the highest spiritual level it’s all love, unity and One-ness.

There was an edited version of this dialogue that I’ve read in full, as well as starting on the Ra material, the latter referenced by ATS members in that conversation.

As someone who has long-held & unshakeable beliefs in an Absolute, Karma & re-birth, some of what I read resonated but other material I found confronting, challenging & disturbing.

For example:
• The One God (One Infinite Creator) creates many sub-gods or Logos, seemingly compartmentalised with specific areas of responsibility. ‘Our’ God, responsible for this Earth, is a bit wayward, according to Hidden Hand. (‘um - where do my earnest prayers go?)
• The concept of the ‘Family’ bringing polarisation and a catalyst for change, with a ‘Harvest’ of souls whether negative (the large majority) , positive etc. resuming existence in another time/space location.
• The statement that these families or blood-lines are here specifically to present the negative (evil) pole in order for us to choose…and that our negative choice is to their advantage due to a contract with a Council of Elders and agreement with the God responsible for Earth…it’s quite complex and above my pay-grade..

And much more..

And yet, and yet….as I read, small bells started going off in the back of my head.. wasn’t some of this stuff also stated, maybe in different terms, in other esoteric material I’ve come across?

In the Bible, some Vedic texts, Theosophy (esp The Secret Doctrine), Rudolph Steiner’s extensive research as well as my own attendance over several years at the SoP, back in the day? (I knew I should have paid more attention 😊 sorry, Mr. M & Mr. W )

And what about the apparent incorrect predictions, such as: rising sea levels (in progress?) / Financial collapse (though 2008?) / San Fran & other cities being uninhabitable (though who wants to live in s**t city) / a new currency (but cryptos?) / massive weather changes, cities underwater (in progress?)

I’m pretty sure these predictions were stated as ‘imminent’ in 2008. But then, in Galactic time, 15 years would hardly register..

Is anyone currently on ATS who was a member then – or like me, has subsequently read the conversations?

Was the entire thing a very clever hoax - or partially true, or Gospel? Maybe we’re so fast asleep, so far removed from reality, believing that we exist only at the physical level that to suggest otherwise is crazy?

“This place is a dream. Only a sleeper considers it real. Then death comes like dawn, and you wake up laughing at what you thought was your grief.”
Rumi 1207-1273Text

a reply to: ThisPlaceIsADream

Hidden Hand used to be known as Mouse in Excite Chat in 1999... was a butcher who learned to code, eventually became good enough at it to build Voodoo Chat when Excite chat died off. He had a Klan in Excite Chat called The Black Hand which became in Voodoo Chat The Hidden Hand.

Fancied himself an overlord of Avatar-based chat and then decided he was actually from an older bloodline that would run the world... so everyone eventually ran screaming from his klan.

He was always good at theatrics though...

Definitely larp? though there might be facts to his creation/creator theory.

It was his thread that pulled me here on ATS btw. I found out ATS 2010? if I remember correctly. But hey maybe we are all just ghosts now and the world did end 2012.

There was also lots of active members back then.

I have mixed feelings about these Illuminati posts. The two I found most accurate and most stunning is the one done in 2003 in the godlikeproductions forum (I do think this one was for real and accurate but the person that posted specifically did not provide a lot
of specifics as he did not want to steer and confuse which is a big no no). Based off my knowledge and experience this person was legit and hiddenhand did confirm this in his post but said he didn’t know the whole thing about the harvest. But the poster on that forum never went into detail about this he just said there wouldn’t be a mass event where we are all released it is a one by one thing (isn’t everything experienced one by one?). They also both asked the same question in the same manner (are you really on the planet you think you are?)

HH…let’s just say you need to consider the source of where this info came. It came directly from you know who. It also introduced a lot of people to the RA Material. Now…Ra is a social memory complex from Venus and so is the social memory complex that HH is part of. Are they the same being or just friends or what?

Furthermore a lot of people reference his incorrect predictions. He specifically said that negative beings will provide incorrect predictions to confuse and cause people to disregard the message (which a lot of people did). The fact he provided these predictions was a trick because people kept asking. Again-who was he channeling the whole time?

The RA material and HH provided a glimpse into real usable spiritual technology. It also provided the best explanation for evil that I have ever seen (strong service to self). Evil exists but nobody quite knows how to explain this but the RA material does quite well and so does HH (is it the same
source?). But don’t get this wrong-if you encountered someone like HH in real life, you should run. Pure evil is pretty jarring and to get to their caliber you have to be pretty terrible.

The other thing one must be aware of is that both posters while are accurate they’re also coming from their own point of view and thus are speaking through specific mediums (which is why the 2003 poster did not reveal as much as HH-HH mentioned that he was chastised for providing too much). Again-because steering people is wrong. Unless you mean to and create a religious/belief system of the future? He surely did influence a lot of people to check out the RA Material after. Was that by design?

I have found that these posters do indeed have a lot of knowledge and I know they’re not hoaxes. There also seems to be different factions and the 2003 poster was part of one that HH was not because someone from HH’s did reply to his thread. Or rather…the being that HH was channeling replied.

However, again, was it purposeful or were they being nice? The 2003 poster said, and this I believe 100%, never accept human intervention (let’s put social memory complex here too). It is between you and the Divine.

There's always some one with "predictions" as far as ate it's changed so much it's almost unrecognizable. They say they are gov. plants on here I know it's more censored now as for all the karma and stuff I couldn't tell you I keep it simple lol

PM sent.

a reply to: Lumenari

The real hidden hand goes way back, think Napoleon, Stalin, and the group that carried out the assassination of Franz Ferdinand.

The guy posting on here going by the same name was fairly interesting, I suspected it was a LARP though obviously he had gathered various bits of information, some true and quite compelling and the rest not so much. He seemed pretty convinced of his own assertion’s though, like he really believed it. He might well have even thought he was an initiate.

I also remember a similar poster talking about “shards of the illuminate” I think it will be interesting to go back and re-visit these threads with a fresh perspective.

a reply to: Lumenari

Cheers for that additional info Lumenari.

I did not know that and found the initial thread to be rather fascinating.

Do you happen to know if he posted other material? aside from at "Excite Chat"?

Or if he/she is still active online?

As it was rather entertaining.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

I was a huge lurker at that time. Started around 04. Joined in 14.

I remember that thread rather well. As I was growing up, my father would talk about the 7 families.

Personally, I came to the conclusion that HH was not who he said he was. I felt that he was just a puppet for somebody higher up.

That said, a lot of what he said made sense.

I do think think that these evil people, need to tell us what they are doing. Either karmic or other spiritual laws make it that way. They tell us what they are doing. At that point, if we don't fight it, we accepted it, and they can say hey, I warned you.

I think that they can't force us to do anything, it has to be our choice.

Look at the patriot act. If you read it, you could see how bad it was. Your choice to read it or not. Most just took the talking point, if you're not doing anything wrong, what do you have to fear.

So while it was spelled out for us in the bill, they spun it so most people wouldn't bother to look at it.

I think HH just gave the deeper talking points to those who like to think they are smart, just to get people to think it is a wild conspiracy.

Larp or not, it's definitely one of the most riveting things I've ever read. The fact that all his responses were rapid-fire, in real-time, lends it some credibility imho. The Starchild thread from around that time is another all-timer message board thread.

LARP eh? Oh well, I've learnt another bit of useless info to go with the rest

a reply to: ThisPlaceIsADream

I wouldn’t call it useless information, like everything else you have to use your own discernment, do your own fact checking and research. There are many that try to throw you off the scent or lead you astray. Sometimes it’s just a case of 4 blind men each holding a different part of the same elephant, and arguing with each other over what it is…

There are some great threads archived here still, I recommend reading “All roads lead to Rome” if you’re not familiar with it for starters.

LARP as others have said, but in such things often nuggets of truth develop or are revealed. We all know the world moves in mysterious ways and so does the entangled web of consciousness we wander through every day. Certainly some of the things said are true. Some not. Predictions are always tricky.

Easy to predict strange weather and warming temperatures now. Sea level is likely to rise. We will one day be hit by another asteroid. We will be hit by a solar flare. Campi Flegri will erupt in the next few years. There will be wars. Our world is controlled by a hidden cabal. Many of those families are old Italian families and yet their power and influence is derived from elsewhere.

We’re not pawns as such, more like observers.

a reply to: AllisVibration

Thanks I'll check it out

The thread that brought me to ATS.

It was well thought out and it was long before "larping" was a thing. No matter the truth of his story, there were some insightful things said.

The test, is this:
In the face of a challenge, who do you trust?
Do you trust what the "outside world" is showing you?
Or, do you hold fast to that which "feels" like Truth, deep within you?
That is something you can only answer for yourself.

I will edit my reply and add that I was quite moved by the ideas expressed in the Window of Opportunity thread. The world Hidden Hand presented to the forum was a frightening place. Yet, many seemed to cheer him on. I felt compelled to reply. I signed up, and added my thoughts. A bit rash, a bit hurried, and bit late to the party. It was 15 years ago and my first reply. I have been mostly silent since then.

Window of Opportunity pg 27

Yes I recall the thread. That thread along with a thread by someone called Dark Knight and the Serpo thread stick out clearly in my mind. Good old days for sure.

originally posted by: AllisVibration
a reply to: Lumenari

The real hidden hand goes way back, think Napoleon, Stalin, and the group that carried out the assassination of Franz Ferdinand.

The guy posting on here going by the same name was fairly interesting, I suspected it was a LARP though obviously he had gathered various bits of information, some true and quite compelling and the rest not so much. He seemed pretty convinced of his own assertion’s though, like he really believed it. He might well have even thought he was an initiate.

I also remember a similar poster talking about “shards of the illuminate” I think it will be interesting to go back and re-visit these threads with a fresh perspective.

He found some things, borrowed bits and pieces that have been bandied about for centuries and patched them up in a framework that he was trying to get attention for.

I actually fueled that a whole long time ago when we talked at length about the cycles, the Ilumminati and the Lumineri.

I should not have.

He went out in a blaze of glory on a few other sites around 2009.

A pity.

He was a little too smart for his own good.

a reply to: Dapaga

"The thread that brought me to ATS."

Me too..and I'm surprised that I haven't seen a reference or link to ATS before I did, just a few weeks ago. Yes, I should get out more..

The consensus of these current comments seems to be fairly cynical, that HH was a clever, but Larping (I had to look it up).

I'm not so sure.

For example, anyone who has read 'The Secret Doctrine' (was H P B an early larper?) will notice similarities in the story of the creation of a hierarchy of Gods & of the Universe. And I think HH made passing reference to Atlantis & other ancient myths - I'd need to re-check to be sure as having also looked at some of the Ra material I could be confused on that.

None of this is conclusive but HH did seem to have knowledge that, whilst not commonplace, is available from other sources. Of course, the cynics will respond again with 'Larping' - I suspect that accusation may the catch cry of those who can't explain it in any other way and would rather not confront a can of worms.